Cain and Abel

[nomolos]

Cain: a tiller of soil
Abel: a keeper of flocks
I just need to know did God cause Cain to fall or to show an example? One of the seven deadly sins is Jealousy. When God praised Abel more than Cain did he set the ball rolling?? By lookin at there jobs it would appear his gift was just as ideal as Abel’s.
Like now a father would praise one son for being into sports and not the other because he choose education. Would there be resentment in the family.
Or if a mother were to keep a gift from a daugther that is sewn, rather than than one that is glued from another???

 

[Della]

God never tempts anyone to sin. God’s acceptance of Abel’s sarifice and rejection of Cain’s is hinted at in the text:

Gen. 4:[3] In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,
[4] and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,
[5] but for Cain and his offering he had no regard.

Able brought the “firstlings of his flock,” IOW, the best of his flocks. Cain’s offering is not characterized as the “best” of his crops. He may have brought wilted, dried out, spoiled veggies to offer to God. If I were God, I’d have rejected it too. But, God tells Cain what he can do to remedy the situation:

[6] The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
[7] If you do well, will you not be accepted?

It was Cain’s choice to blame the whole thing on his brother instead of on his own failings. An all too typical reaction by those who do not wish to be corrected by God or anyone else.

 

[opdsgt]

I’m taking online bible study courses through Scott Hahn’s St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology and, just yesterday, finished a block of instruction that may help shed some light on your question.

This is another sub-plot in Genesis. Notice that God chooses always the younger son, even though the way of the world is to grant privileges and pride of place to the older. Abel’s offering is preferred to Cain’s. Isaac over Ishmael. And Jacob’s youngest son, Joseph, becomes the hero of the later books of Genesis, while Reuben, Jacob’s first-born, fails to defend him against his brothers (see Genesis 37).

Why does God do this? It’s as if the betrayal by God’s “first-born” son, Adam, upset the harmony between the ways of the world and the ways of God. But God’s plan will not be frustrated. He saves us despite ourselves, choosing the young, the weak and the sinful to show that salvation history is governed by His free grace and His love. St. Paul, interpreting this Scripture, says God chose Isaac over Esau “in order that God’s elective plan might continue, not by works but by His call…So it depends not upon a person’s will or exertion, but upon God” (see Romans 9:11-13).

salvationhistory.com/online/beginner/class1_lesson3_2.cfm

 

[nomolos]

God never tempts anyone to sin. God’s acceptance of Abel’s sarifice and rejection of Cain’s is hinted at in the text:

Gen. 4:[3] In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,
[4] and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,
[5] but for Cain and his offering he had no regard.

Able brought the “firstlings of his flock,” IOW, the best of his flocks. Cain’s offering is not characterized as the “best” of his crops. He may have brought wilted, dried out, spoiled veggies to offer to God. If I were God, I’d have rejected it too. But, God tells Cain what he can do to remedy the situation:

[6] The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
[7] If you do well, will you not be accepted?

It was Cain’s choice to blame the whole thing on his brother instead of on his own failings. An all too typical reaction by those who do not wish to be corrected by God or anyone else.

Thank you, very intresting that is why you are a senior member. But here is the but, It did not say that he brought withered fruit or veggie, nor rotten that is to the individual to speculate. Would I or even you judge a gift if say they where both herders of flock but one had access to greener pastures, thus having a better flock.
Whos to say Abels flock didn’t trample over Cains garden before the presentations of the gifts, or even eat the good veggies of his garden thus making his lamb fat???

 

[Della]

Thank you, very intresting that is why you are a senior member. But here is the but, It did not say that he brought withered fruit or veggie, nor rotten that is to the individual to speculate. Would I or even you judge a gift if say they where both herders of flock but one had access to greener pastures, thus having a better flock.
Whos to say Abels flock didn’t trample over Cains garden before the presentations of the gifts, or even eat the good veggies of his garden thus making his lamb fat???

If you want to speculate like this, you will never come to any conclusion because there will always be another “but.”

God certainly knew the circumstances in the case of Cain and Abel. And, God is a fair judge. He doesn’t penalize people for what they did not know or could not help happening. That would make him a monster, and he’s anything but that!

 

[nomolos]

If you want to speculate like this, you will never come to any conclusion because there will always be another “but.”

God certainly knew the circumstances in the case of Cain and Abel. And, God is a fair judge. He doesn’t penalize people for what they did not know or could not help happening. That would make him a monster, and he’s anything but that!

Thanks

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note that *Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. While Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, *

One can read into this that Abel prepared his offering; while Cain simply brought his as he harvested it.

A proper sacrifice is returning to God a portion of what He has given us. But we can’t just give it back as we got it; we have to prepare it; put a portion of ourself into it. Thus we offer bread and wine; not wheat and grapes.

 

[mlchance]

One should keep in mind that, regardless of why his sacrifice was rejected by God, killing Abel was not an appropriate response (to put it mildly). There is no excuse for fratricide.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Deacon_Joseph]

Cain did not offer his best to God, Abel did. However, its not the first time I heard this question. I have heard some commentaries on this, that prehaps God, at some point, felt bad because He may have played favorites. This could possibly be one of the reasons He placed a mark on Cain so no one would harm him. Or, God didn’t want anyone to harm Cain, so Cain could live with this feeling of regret. One commentary I read said that it was possible that Cain did not know he would kill Abel since no one has died yet. Interesting question, I’m still not sure.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Cain: a tiller of soil
Abel: a keeper of flocks
I just need to know did God cause Cain to fall or to show an example? One of the seven deadly sins is Jealousy. When God praised Abel more than Cain did he set the ball rolling?? By lookin at there jobs it would appear his gift was just as ideal as Abel’s.
Like now a father would praise one son for being into sports and not the other because he choose education. Would there be resentment in the family.
Or if a mother were to keep a gift from a daugther that is sewn, rather than than one that is glued from another???

Time to read Job? What do you think Job would have done if he were treated as Cain was?

1. A prayer of thankfulness as God needed no additional offerings
2. A prayer of help to show Job a better way?
3. Began to keep flocks for offerings?
4. ect…

I think the story is abouts Cain’s reaction not the incident that sparked the reaction. How did Cain’s action achieve an acceptable offering(s) to God?

 

[Valke2]

that they were offering sacrifices in the first place is interesting.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Awe but were they? Cain may well have made a minimal “sacrifice” like the guy who tithes $1 or tips $1, thus the lack of description about his offering. Additionally, Cain’s offering did not contain a life, typical of all offering in the OT. In the NT it is reversed unleavened bread and wine, that is interesting too.

 

[Valke2]

Awe but were they? Cain may well have made a minimal “sacrifice” like the guy who tithes $1 or tips $1, thus the lack of description about his offering. Additionally, Cain’s offering did not contain a life, typical of all offering in the OT. In the NT it is reversed unleavened bread and wine, that is interesting too.

there are many sacrifices according to Torah that are only grain or oil. But my point was that we have a story here that involves sacrifices prior to God commanding them. This seems to be a story that was familar to people of biblical times and reworked for the bible. THat would also explain the apparent missing portion (i.e., what did they argue about in the fields?)

 

[Texas_Roofer]

there are many sacrifices according to Torah that are only grain or oil. But my point was that we have a story here that involves sacrifices prior to God commanding them. This seems to be a story that was familar to people of biblical times and reworked for the bible. THat would also explain the apparent missing portion (i.e., what did they argue about in the fields?)

Guess I am missing something do you have an electronic version to cut and paste?
Even though Leviticus was written later, as god did not change my guess is there were sacrifices earlier. In the version I use God talks with Cain and assures Cain to do what is right

The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not. Cain greatly resented this and was crestfallen. So the LORD said to Cain: “Why are you so resentful and crestfallen? If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master.” Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out in the field.” When they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

 

[Valke2]

Lev. 2:14 When you bring a meal offering of the first grains to the Lord, you shall bring your first grain meal offering [from barley], as soon as it ripens, parched over the fire, kernels full in their husks, [ground into] coarse meal. 15 And you shall put oil on it, and place frankincense upon it. It is a meal offering. 16 Then, the kohen shall cause its reminder to [go up in] smoke, [taken] from its coarse meal and from its oil, with all its frankincense; [it is] a fire offering to the Lord.

And Cain spoke to Abel his brother, and it came to pass when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him.

And then there is the fact of Cain worrying about what people will do to him when they find him. What people?

 

[NotWorthy]

Valke, you’ll also notice that the first thing Noah does after exiting the ark is to set up an altar and offer up sacrifice.

Although it was written later, from Leviticus it seems that Abel’s sacrifice was a sin offering, whereas Cain’s was a communion offering, as if Cain could not admit that he was sinful. Since we see the desire to sacrifice well before it was written down in Leviticus, is it hard to assume that some sort of sacrificial system was established rather early on?

 

[Valke2]

Valke, you’ll also notice that the first thing Noah does after exiting the ark is to set up an altar and offer up sacrifice.

Although it was written later, from Leviticus it seems that Abel’s sacrifice was a sin offering, whereas Cain’s was a communion offering, as if Cain could not admit that he was sinful. Since we see the desire to sacrifice well before it was written down in Leviticus, is it hard to assume that some sort of sacrificial system was established rather early on?

I’d agree that there was a sacrifical system established prior to the giving of Torah. In fact, it is my belief that the reason sacrifices were commanded at all were because the Israelites were already used to such a system, and the purpose of the Temple and laws governing sacrifices were to ensure that this behavoir now was a way to reinforce monotheism, rather than pagan beliefs.

Or perhaps the subsequent rules governing sacrifices were established in part to prevent other Cain and Able situations from arising.

 

[NotWorthy]

I think the reason the Levitical sacrificial system was set up was to break Israel of Egypt’s gods. It seems the Israelites may have been adopting the pagan practices of the Egyptians. If you notice the three main sacrifical animals were revered in Egypt.

That’s why Moses told Pharaoh they must go out in the desert to perform sacrifices because the Egyptians would find them abominable and stone the Israelites.

Sadly, though, the story of Cain and Abel has repeated itself numerous times, most often on a grander scale.

 

[SherryLynn9]

Guess I am missing something do you have an electronic version to cut and paste?
Even though Leviticus was written later, as god did not change my guess is there were sacrifices earlier.

The very first blood sacrifice was when God killed the animals for their skins/fur to cover Adam and Eve.

 

[chlotilde]

Cain: a tiller of soil
Abel: a keeper of flocks
I just need to know did God cause Cain to fall or to show an example?

from DRBO

Abel also offered of the firstlings of his flock, and of their fat: and the Lord had respect to Abel, and to his offerings. 5 But to Cain and his offerings he had no respect: and Cain was exceedingly angry, and his countenance fell.
*notation:
*
4 “Had respect”… That is, shewed his acceptance of his sacrifice (as coming from a heart full of devotion): and that, as we may suppose, by some visible token, such as sending fire from heaven upon his offerings.

I always thought that Cain’s offer was not accepted because he had not love in his heart.