W
William777
Guest
There is a quote in Plato’s Meno which I have always wondered about. It is highlighted in the following text:
**
SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I have heard from certain wise men and women who spoke of things divine that—
MENO: What did they say?
SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious truth, as I conceive.
MENO: What was it? and who were they?
SOCRATES: Some of them were priests and priestesses, who had studied how they might be able to give a reason of their profession: there have been poets also, who spoke of these things by inspiration, like Pindar, and many others who were inspired. And they say—mark, now, and see whether their words are true—they say that the soul of man is immortal, and at one time has an end, which is termed dying, and at another time is born again, but is never destroyed. And the moral is, that a man ought to live always in perfect holiness. ‘For in the ninth year Persephone sends the souls of those from whom she has received the penalty of ancient crime back again from beneath into the light of the sun above, and these are they who become noble kings and mighty men and great in wisdom and are called saintly heroes in after ages.’ The soul, then, as being immortal, and having been born again many times, and having seen all things that exist, whether in this world or in the world below, has knowledge of them all; and it is no wonder that she should be able to call to remembrance all that she ever knew about virtue, and about everything; for as all nature is akin, and the soul has learned all things; there is no difficulty in her eliciting or as men say learning, out of a single recollection all the rest, if a man is strenuous and does not faint; for all enquiry and all learning is but recollection. And therefore we ought not to listen to this sophistical argument about the impossibility of enquiry: for it will make us idle; and is sweet only to the sluggard; but the other saying will make us active and inquisitive. In that confiding, I will gladly enquire with you into the nature of virtue. **
I realize Plato is pagan philosophy, so there may well be a divergence from Catholic teaching. But many Popes, Doctors and Saints have relied upon Ancient Greek thinking, including Plato’s, so let me see what we can derive from the statement above.
It has always intrigued me that Cain became a King after God’s exiled him to a life of slavery. My question is “why?”
I wonder if it has something to do with the highlighted comments Socrates made above.
Next, I do not think we cannot equate Jesus’ kingship with Cain’s in anyway, although it does seem like there are similarities. The principle difference is Cain wasn’t God, and, of course, Cain did something God saw as evil (although perhaps he was unaware killing Able was wrong, since he did not have any moral law beyond God forth and multiply). However, from Philipians 2:6, we read:
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although He existed in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant,
and being made in the likeness of men.
Being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,
of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
The kingship is supposed to come from the humility, hence, it says, God highly exalted him.
I guess I’m trying to figure out why it is that humility exalts us, and if it can be derived from the Socratic commentary as well.
When one is a prisoner or a slave it doesn’t exactly seem like one is being “exalted”; it’s drudgery, but somehow the quotes above suggest the opposite.
My question is - exactly how is it that the prisoner/slave is supposed to become a king? How it is one is supposed to find exaltation in something so lowly as being a slave? Why did Cain become a King when he was shamefully outcast? How is it supposed to make any sense at all? Or is it supposed to remain a mystery?
**
SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I have heard from certain wise men and women who spoke of things divine that—
MENO: What did they say?
SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious truth, as I conceive.
MENO: What was it? and who were they?
SOCRATES: Some of them were priests and priestesses, who had studied how they might be able to give a reason of their profession: there have been poets also, who spoke of these things by inspiration, like Pindar, and many others who were inspired. And they say—mark, now, and see whether their words are true—they say that the soul of man is immortal, and at one time has an end, which is termed dying, and at another time is born again, but is never destroyed. And the moral is, that a man ought to live always in perfect holiness. ‘For in the ninth year Persephone sends the souls of those from whom she has received the penalty of ancient crime back again from beneath into the light of the sun above, and these are they who become noble kings and mighty men and great in wisdom and are called saintly heroes in after ages.’ The soul, then, as being immortal, and having been born again many times, and having seen all things that exist, whether in this world or in the world below, has knowledge of them all; and it is no wonder that she should be able to call to remembrance all that she ever knew about virtue, and about everything; for as all nature is akin, and the soul has learned all things; there is no difficulty in her eliciting or as men say learning, out of a single recollection all the rest, if a man is strenuous and does not faint; for all enquiry and all learning is but recollection. And therefore we ought not to listen to this sophistical argument about the impossibility of enquiry: for it will make us idle; and is sweet only to the sluggard; but the other saying will make us active and inquisitive. In that confiding, I will gladly enquire with you into the nature of virtue. **
I realize Plato is pagan philosophy, so there may well be a divergence from Catholic teaching. But many Popes, Doctors and Saints have relied upon Ancient Greek thinking, including Plato’s, so let me see what we can derive from the statement above.
It has always intrigued me that Cain became a King after God’s exiled him to a life of slavery. My question is “why?”
I wonder if it has something to do with the highlighted comments Socrates made above.
Next, I do not think we cannot equate Jesus’ kingship with Cain’s in anyway, although it does seem like there are similarities. The principle difference is Cain wasn’t God, and, of course, Cain did something God saw as evil (although perhaps he was unaware killing Able was wrong, since he did not have any moral law beyond God forth and multiply). However, from Philipians 2:6, we read:
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, although He existed in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant,
and being made in the likeness of men.
Being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,
of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
The kingship is supposed to come from the humility, hence, it says, God highly exalted him.
I guess I’m trying to figure out why it is that humility exalts us, and if it can be derived from the Socratic commentary as well.
When one is a prisoner or a slave it doesn’t exactly seem like one is being “exalted”; it’s drudgery, but somehow the quotes above suggest the opposite.
My question is - exactly how is it that the prisoner/slave is supposed to become a king? How it is one is supposed to find exaltation in something so lowly as being a slave? Why did Cain become a King when he was shamefully outcast? How is it supposed to make any sense at all? Or is it supposed to remain a mystery?