Calendars

[Joab_Anias]

Is there difference in RC and EC calendars and if so what is the opinion of the Church?

Peace.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Is there difference in RC and EC calendars and if so what is the opinion of the Church?

The Church has no opinion. There are eparchies and, in some instances, individual parishes within Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches that observe the Julian Calendar, although the majority conform to the Gregorian Calendar.

There is at least one thread in the old EC forum archives which details many of the specific instances - however, regretably, that Archive appears to not be searchable.

Many years,

Neil

 

[wannabee]

OOOOOOOOH I detect a can of worms being opened here

I suspect you mean the Calendar of Feasts ? not the Old Calendar and New Calendar discussions which go on and on and on and on and on ad infinitum

Seriously - there are some differences yes - but we do honour each other’s Saints .

One , to many folk , big difference is that our Liturgical Year starts in September

*Where’s the Irish Melkite when you need him ?

[edit] we were answering at the same time [/edit]
*

 

[Woodstock]

There is at least one thread in the old EC forum archives which details many of the specific instances - however, regretably, that Archive appears to not be searchable.

Many years,

Neil

I was able to search the archive earlier but not this board. Hopefully it is a glitch.

There is also a difference in liturgical calendars between east and west.

 

[Joab_Anias]

The Church has no opinion. There are eparchies and, in some instances, individual parishes within Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches that observe the Julian Calendar, although the majority conform to the Gregorian Calendar.

There is at least one thread in the old EC forum archives which details many of the specific instances - however, regretably, that Archive appears to not be searchable.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks. Would you perhaps have a good online reference to how I may compare the two? I wish to see the feasts and solemnities.

 

[Joab_Anias]

Seriously - there are some differences yes - but we do honour each other’s Saints .

Thanks. I was particularly interested in where they coincide and what one may offer aside from the other.

I am also glad to hear there is no official issue about which one is used.

Peace.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

I was particularly interested in where they coincide and what one may offer aside from the other.

Joab,

Understand that liturgical calendars differ from one Church sui iuris to another and that the Holydays are identical in only limited instances, except in a few Churches.

And please don’t misunderstand my sister wannabe’s observation regarding honoring one another’s Saints. “Honor” as in recognize - not so far as generally observing on our liturgical calendars. One will not, for instance, find Saint Pius X commemorated in the liturgical calendar of any Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church. Likewise, one will not likely encounter a commemoration of Blessed Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception outside of the Syro-Malabarese Church, of Blessed Archbishop Ignatius Shoukrallah Maloyan outside of the Armenian Church, of Blessed Exarch Leonid Feodorov outside the Byzantine Rite Churches of the Slav Tradition.

For an example of an Eastern calendar - you can download the ** Melkite Cyber-Typicon ** from Father Peter Boutros’ site and the ** Melkite Synaxarion ** is available at Father Ron Golini’s site.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Joab_Anias]

Joab,

Understand that liturgical calendars differ from one Church sui iuris to another and that the Holydays are identical in only limited instances, except in a few Churches.

And please don’t misunderstand my sister wannabe’s observation regarding honoring one another’s Saints. “Honor” as in recognize - not so far as generally observing on our liturgical calendars. One will not, for instance, find Saint Pius X commemorated in the liturgical calendar of any Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church. Likewise, one will not likely encounter a commemoration of Blessed Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception outside of the Syro-Malabarese Church, of Blessed Archbishop Ignatius Shoukrallah Maloyan outside of the Armenian Church, of Blessed Exarch Leonid Feodorov outside the Byzantine Rite Churches of the Slav Tradition.

For an example of an Eastern calendar - you can download the ** Melkite Cyber-Typicon** from Father Peter Boutros’ site and the ** Melkite Synaxarion** is available at Father Ron Golini’s site.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks for the links.

As far as the Saints, I am not sure I understand the difference in the canonization process from east to west. I have seen threads on this topic before and could look them up to see what they say.

I belive in the Roman Church we refrain from calling anyone Saint unless officially canonized by the Church but some still use the term loosely just as they did in the early days to refer to anyone who has gone before us.

I am unsure if this is the same norm in the eastern tradition. Even if it isn’t that wouldn’t hold much significance for me as I consider alot of folks Saints who aren’t formally canonized and some that are still alive.

Peace.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Is there difference in RC and EC calendars and if so what is the opinion of the Church?>>

If by “EC calendars” you mean that all the Eastern Churches have the same calendar, the very assumption of the question is wrong.

In the Byzantine use, there are two beginnings of the year. The Lectionary Year begins with Pascha (Easter). The Sanctoral (fixed cycle) year starts on 1 September.

Some of the major feasts are the same on both the Roman and Byzantine calendars: Nativity of the Virgin (8 Sept), Holy Cross (14 Sept), Entrance of the Theotokos (21 November, not as big in the West), ST. Andrew (30 Nov), Nativity, Theophany/Epiphany, Meeting of the Lord/Purification, Annunciation, Ss Peter and Paul, Transfiguration, Dormition/Assumption, and so on.

On the other hand, many feasts and especially saints are NOT the same, or even necessarily observed on both calendars.

What is the “opinion of the Church”? Each member of a sui juris church is to observe and cherish his proper liturgical and spiritual patrimony, including the calendar.

 

[Joab_Anias]

<<Is there difference in RC and EC calendars and if so what is the opinion of the Church?>>

If by “EC calendars” you mean that all the Eastern Churches have the same calendar, the very assumption of the question is wrong.

In the Byzantine use, there are two beginnings of the year. The Lectionary Year begins with Pascha (Easter). The Sanctoral (fixed cycle) year starts on 1 September.

Some of the major feasts are the same on both the Roman and Byzantine calendars: Nativity of the Virgin (8 Sept), Holy Cross (14 Sept), Entrance of the Theotokos (21 November, not as big in the West), ST. Andrew (30 Nov), Nativity, Theophany/Epiphany, Meeting of the Lord/Purification, Annunciation, Ss Peter and Paul, Transfiguration, Dormition/Assumption, and so on.

I was primarily only concerned with the Julian Calendar, and the Gregorian Calendar. But this detail is appreciated.

It begs the question, what are the daily readings of the eastern traditions? I am interested in seeing how the tradition my feed the soul as suplimentation to the Roman rite. Is there some where online I can follow the general consensus of the eastern DL readings for the year. (Not that I intend to favor one above the other but to draw from both).

On the other hand, many feasts and especially saints are NOT the same, or even necessarily observed on both calendars.

There are so many Saints for every day its not possible to keep up with or honor them all. I don’t even try to seperate them except for those special to me.

What is the “opinion of the Church”? Each member of a sui juris church is to observe and cherish his proper liturgical and spiritual patrimony, including the calendar.

Thats what I thought but wasn’t sure. Thanks again.

Peace.

 

[Woodstock]

It begs the question, what are the daily readings of the eastern traditions?

It is on a 1-year lectionary cycle.

You can download a menologian program here which has the day’s readings and festal hymns (troparia and kontakia).

A Troparian and Kontakian Reader
New in Version 2.0 Menologion contains the
Bible Readings for the day.
The Plus Edition contains a
supplemental icon library.

MENOLOGION is a free computer program which provides you with access to the Troparia and Kontakia for every day of the year. When the program first starts, it reads the date set in your computer’s clock and displays the Troparia and Kontakia for the current date. You can set the program to display dates according to the Old Calendar or the New Calendar. You can select any date and display the Troparia and Kontakia for that date. It is also possible to browse through the Troparia and Kontakia either forward or backward day by day. You can also search for and find saints by name.

MENOLOGION can also display an Icon next to the text of the saints. There are 58 Icons in all, and the icons of specific saints are automatically displayed on the correct date.

MENOLOGION allows you to print the text of the Troparia and Kontakia for a single day, or for a series of days. You can also edit the text in MENOLOGION’s editor window and save the edited text to a file, or you can save unedited text to a file.

MENOLOGION also remembers your preferences for program options and starts the program the way you want it every time you use it.

Additional Information can be found at the Menologion website: http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/menologion.htm

 

[jimmy]

OOOOOOOOH I detect a can of worms being opened here

I suspect you mean the Calendar of Feasts ? not the Old Calendar and New Calendar discussions which go on and on and on and on and on ad infinitum

Seriously - there are some differences yes - but we do honour each other’s Saints .

One , to many folk , big difference is that our Liturgical Year starts in September

Where’s the Irish Melkite when you need him ?

[edit] we were answering at the same time [/edit]

I am about to make this can of worms grow exponentially. What about St. Gregory Palamas in the Byzantine churches?

 

[Joab_Anias]

It is on a 1-year lectionary cycle.

You can download a menologian program here which has the day’s readings and festal hymns (troparia and kontakia).

I like it. When it came up it was set on 28 October but it looks really good.

Thanks.

Peace.

 

[wannabee]

It begs the question, what are the daily readings of the eastern traditions? I am interested in seeing how the tradition my feed the soul as suplimentation to the Roman rite. Is there some where online I can follow the general consensus of the eastern DL readings for the year. (Not that I intend to favor one above the other but to draw from both).

you will find the Ruthenian Lectionary here

byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1383&Itemid=114

 

[Joab_Anias]

you will find the Ruthenian Lectionary here

byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1383&Itemid=114

Cool thanks. I love that site.

Peace.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

As far as the Saints, I am not sure I understand the difference in the canonization process from east to west. I have seen threads on this topic before and could look them up to see what they say.

I belive in the Roman Church we refrain from calling anyone Saint unless officially canonized by the Church but some still use the term loosely just as they did in the early days to refer to anyone who has gone before us.

“Official canonization” in the sense of a process conducted by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, culminating in a declaration by the Pope that an individual is Venerable, Blessed, or Sainted, did not exist before 1585 or thereabouts when the Sacred Congregation for Rites (now the Congregation for Divine Worship, if I remember correctly) was first charged with that responsibility. That fact certainly does not preclude recognition or acknowledgement of the thousands of Saints (among whom were the vast majority of early Christian martyrs, the Apostles, and the Disciples of Christ’s time) proclaimed as such before that date, on the basis of local or popular acclamation.

I am unsure if this is the same norm in the eastern tradition. Even if it isn’t that wouldn’t hold much significance for me as I consider alot of folks Saints who aren’t formally canonized and some that are still alive.

The canonization process applied to those of the East presently is in common with that of the West - in other words, the Congregation for the Causes carries forth its process and the declaration of their status is by the Pope. The status accorded to all three of the Beatified whom I named above:

• Blessed Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception
• Blessed Archbishop Ignatius Shoukrallah Maloyan
• Blessed Exarch Leonid Feodorov

as well as myriad others, was as a consequence of this process.

Most Eastern and Oriental Church liturgical calendars are particularly notable for their commemoration of the sainted and holy personages of the Old Testament and those of the very early years of the New Testament period. As an example, in the Melkite calendar (and that of several other Byzantine Rite Churches), are commemorated:

• September 4 - The Memory of the Holy Prophet Moses Who Saw God
• December 17 - The Memory of the Holy Prophet Daniel and the Three Youths: Anania, Azaria, and Misael
• February 3 - The Memory of the Holy and Just Simeon who received God and that of Holy Anna the Prophetess

The Sunday prior to the Nativity is commemorated (in its short form) as “The Sunday of the Fathers” or “The Sunday of the Genealogy”; in its longer form, it is “The Memory of all the Fathers who were agreeable to God, from Adam to Joseph, Spouse of the Most Holy Theotokos”.

The calendars of the Byzantine Rite Churches of the Slav Tradition have been greatly increased in recent years by the addition of commemorations for the many of their faithful, religious, presbyters, and hierarchs martyred in odium fidei under Communism. See the Hagiography Circle for myriad examples. Many more have causes still pending, such as the Servant of God Father Walter Ciszek, SJ, of blessed memory.

Some of the more recently formed Oriental Catholic Churches have, in these same years, had the first formal acknowledgement of those whose lives were lived within the period of the a particular Church’s formal existence as a sui iuris ecclesia. As an example, the Syro-Malankara Church recently celebrated the proclamation of Archbishop Geevarghese Mar Ivanios, OIC, its proto-hierarch, as Servant of God.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Joab_Anias]

“Official canonization” in the sense of a process conducted by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, culminating in a declaration by the Pope that an individual is Venerable, Blessed, or Sainted, did not exist before 1585 or thereabouts when the Sacred Congregation for Rites (now the Congregation for Divine Worship, if I remember correctly) was first charged with that responsibility. That fact certainly does not preclude recognition or acknowledgement of the thousands of Saints (among whom were the vast majority of early Christian martyrs, the Apostles, and the Disciples of Christ’s time) proclaimed as such before that date, on the basis of local or popular acclamation.

The canonization process applied to those of the East presently is in common with that of the West - in other words, the Congregation for the Causes carries forth its process and the declaration of their status is by the Pope. The status accorded to all three of the Beatified whom I named above:

• Blessed Sister Alphonsa of the Immaculate Conception
• Blessed Archbishop Ignatius Shoukrallah Maloyan
• Blessed Exarch Leonid Feodorov

as well as myriad others, was as a consequence of this process.

Most Eastern and Oriental Church liturgical calendars are particularly notable for their commemoration of the sainted and holy personages of the Old Testament and those of the very early years of the New Testament period. As an example, in the Melkite calendar (and that of several other Byzantine Rite Churches), are commemorated:

• September 4 - The Memory of the Holy Prophet Moses Who Saw God
• December 17 - The Memory of the Holy Prophet Daniel and the Three Youths: Anania, Azaria, and Misael
• February 3 - The Memory of the Holy and Just Simeon who received God and that of Holy Anna the Prophetess

The Sunday prior to the Nativity is commemorated (in its short form) as “The Sunday of the Fathers” or “The Sunday of the Genealogy”; in its longer form, it is “The Memory of all the Fathers who were agreeable to God, from Adam to Joseph, Spouse of the Most Holy Theotokos”.

The calendars of the Byzantine Rite Churches of the Slav Tradition have been greatly increased in recent years by the addition of commemorations for the many of their faithful, religious, presbyters, and hierarchs martyred in odium fidei under Communism. See the Hagiography Circle for myriad examples. Many more have causes still pending, such as the Servant of God Father Walter Ciszek, SJ, of blessed memory.

Some of the more recently formed Oriental Catholic Churches have, in these same years, had the first formal acknowledgement of those whose lives were lived within the period of the a particular Church’s formal existence as a sui iuris ecclesia. As an example, the Syro-Malankara Church recently celebrated the proclamation of Archbishop Geevarghese Mar Ivanios, OIC, its proto-hierarch, as Servant of God.

Many years,

Neil

Much appreciated. Hope that wasn’t to much trouble. You are definitly a wealth of knowlege. You should write a book.

Peace and thanks again.