Californians turn to magic to escape drought

[PRmerger]

I don’t believe it. I’d just like it if that were the case.

Well, if there’s no logical reason to believe it, I wouldn’t buy into that idea that God isn’t a sectarian God (if He exists).

Isn’t the only reason to think (that is, believe) something…is because it’s true?

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Well, if there’s no logical reason to believe it, I wouldn’t buy into that idea that God isn’t a sectarian God (if He exists).

Isn’t the only reason to think (that is, believe) something…is because it’s true?

You’ve twice tried to associate what I said with the word believe. You know that I don’t believe there is a god, so anything I say about what characteristics I would like if a god (whatever flavor he or she happens to be) were to exist obviously doesn’t mean it’s anything more than lighthearted guesswork. It has as much weight as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, wondering what Leonardo da Vinci would say if you gave him blueprints of the International Space Station, or if Spider-Man could beat James Bond in a fight. I can speculate as much as I want without believing it and without it being true. All of these things are so nebulous in definition that all we can do is speculate.

 

[PRmerger]

You’ve twice tried to associate what I said with the word believe. You know that I don’t believe there is a god, so anything I say about what characteristics I would like if a god (whatever flavor he or she happens to be) were to exist obviously doesn’t mean it’s anything more than lighthearted guesswork.

Yes, I get that.

But I believe even suppositions ought to be grounded in logic and truth.

Don’t you?

I mean, what’s the point of asserting, “I’d like it if a fat jolly elf delivered gifts to all the good boys and girls every December 25” when one knows it’s not a possibility.

That kind of an otiose musing, don’t you think?

#jollyoldwasteo’time

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Yes, I get that.

But I believe even suppositions ought to be grounded in logic and truth.

Don’t you?

I mean, what’s the point of asserting, “I’d like it if a fat jolly elf delivered gifts to all the good boys and girls every December 25” when one knows it’s not a possibility.

That kind of an otiose musing, don’t you think?

#jollyoldwasteo’time

Like I said, it was lighthearted. You were either joking or half-joking about how God didn’t answer Rick Perry’s prayers because he was a Methodist politician, and my response was basically how I’d hope that wasn’t how God did things (again assuming he or she were to exist).

It reminded me of this joke from Emo Philips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,“Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?” He said, “Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,“Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off."

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

The prize is up to a million now, but still no one has been able to claim it. It’s for any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power determined with a test agreed to by both parties.

Bonnie, I’m pretty sure you’ve seen it or at least heard about it; but if you haven’t go check out “An Honest Liar”. It’s a biographical film of Randi and touches on most of his memorable moments (James Hydrick, Alice Cooper, Peter Popoff, Uri Gellar, Project Alpha, Carlos). For the most part there’s not much new, but it’s still pretty amazing (pun intended).

 

[SonOfMan]

They’d be better off to pray.

God allows the world its free will and also allows the consequences of original sin to affect us. Praying is useless to end problems like this.

 

[Lucretius]

Regarding the article in the original post, what’s funny is how thoroughly debunked dowsing (especially water dousing) is. There is a gentleman named James Randi who several decades ago offered $10,000 to anyone who could prove they could douse for water or precious minerals. He gathered several prominent dowsers who were shown what the tests would be and agreed they would be able to succeed at them.

One test was to run water through a series of underground pipes so that only one pipe would have water at any one time. A pipe would be chosen at random and the dowser would have to determine which numbered pipe had the water. Another test was to put (if I remember correctly) gold and put in a random container and the dowsers had to determine which had the gold.

They all failed, none doing better than random chance and some doing far worse. It was only after the tests were done did the dowsers complain that the test did not accurately allow them to demonstrate their abilitites. Again, these were tests which were explicitly laid out and which they agreed to.

TL;DR If people are resorting to dowsers for water things must be pretty desperate.

How can they do worse than random chance?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

How can they do worse than random chance?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

I should have phrased that a little better. They did worse than what would be expected on average if choosing by random chance. So if they have a 1 in 10 chance to get it right and they repeat the test 30 times, then if someone were to pick by random chance they should expect on average to get it right 3 times.

 

[jesuspsr]

Being born and raised in SoCal Desert (Coachella Valley) I have yet to see us turning to magic for water. We do pray alot for it though or at least, a not so hot summer.

However, years ago when I worked construction. We were having a difficult time finding the main water supply line. My boss called “Leak Detectors”, The guy pulled out two hangers bent them and within a couple of minutes he drew an X, told us to dig here. And sure enough several feet down there it was. Crazy.

jesus g

 

[PRmerger]

Like I said, it was lighthearted. You were either joking or half-joking about how God didn’t answer Rick Perry’s prayers because he was a Methodist politician,

Totally joking.

and my response was basically how I’d hope that wasn’t how God did things (again assuming he or she were to exist).

Could you (and all atheists here) PLEASE cease and desist with the “Well, I’m an atheist so I don’t even believe God exists anyway”.

All of us Believers here ought to get that some things need to be conceded for the sake of discussion. We should get that things may be granted as provisionally true for the sake of continuing the fun.

Thankfully, I haven’t been in a dialogue with an atheist in a while where he has used “I don’t believe in God anyway so the question is irrelevant to me” as a crutch when a point is made that he cannot refute. I think we Christians have pretty much figured out that if your screenname is, say, TheHappyAtheist that you’re going to be, well, atheist, but that you concede certain points for the sake of dialogue here on the CAFs.

At any rate, my question to you remains a trenchant one: where do you get the idea that God would not be sectarian?

“I like to think that we can sprout feathers and fly” is an absolutely ridiculous (and unfunny) statement, unless it is grounded in context and logic, yes?

It reminded me of this joke from Emo Philips:

#lamestjokeever

 

[PRmerger]

God allows the world its free will and also allows the consequences of original sin to affect us. Praying is useless to end problems like this.

Absolutely not.

God gives us the dignity of causality, as Blaise Pascal contends.

He gives us the dignity of actually causing some events, simply because we prayed for them.

The opportunity to work, either through spiritual means or physical means, is a blessing.

What a good God we have indeed!

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

At any rate, my question to you remains a trenchant one: where do you get the idea that God would not be sectarian?

If I were to have with any seriousness tried to establish that God was not sectarian, then yes it would be on my shoulders to present evidence and reason to back up such claim. I made no attempt to demonstrate the claim as to whether God was sectarian. It was clear that it was sheer unfettered (and perhaps unwarranted) optimism that he wouldn’t be. It’s that same type of unwarranted optimism I get each time seeing a response you’ve made to me and hoping that you won’t misrepresent what I’ve written.

“I like to think that we can sprout feathers and fly” is an absolutely ridiculous (and unfunny) statement, unless it is grounded in context and logic, yes?

What are you talking about? My statement was grounded in the context of your statement. “I like to think that we can sprout feathers and fly” is a random phrase without context.

#lamestjokeever

After Britain considered making a law banning religious jokes a website had a poll and ranked it the funniest religious joke ever. See Emo’s response here

 

[drac16]

It kind of reminds me of what Joseph Smith, the mormon prophet, did prior to his ministry.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

But seriously. Who would win?

This, of course, needs fairly deep study [Takes off glasses and puts on *extra-thick glasses].

I guess the first thing to do is see how each character has done when fighting an opponent like the one in our scenario.

In Casino Royale one of the earliest scenes was chasing a bombmaker who also was an expert at parkour. James Bond held is own, but it should be noted that the bombmaker was in pure escape mode and wasn’t trying to attack Bond.

Spider-Man has two enemies with a skill set similar to Bond. One is The Punisher. Spider-Man has beaten him before, but has been killed by him in an alternate continuity (where Punisher waited until Spider-Man had just finished going toe-to-toe in a battle of the year with his archenemy, Venom, and didn’t have the strength to dodge a point blank shot to the head). In a fair fight though the edge definitely goes to Spider-Man. The other enemy similar to Bond is Kraven the Hunter. He doesn’t have the firepower that The Punisher does but is an expert at setting traps. While Kraven has trapped Spider-Man several times he has not managed to kill him.

So let’s go to the tale of the tape. Both are excellent hand-to-hand combatants and have amazing stamina. Both have access to fancy gadgets and excel both in the heat of the moment and when they have time to prepare. Bond’s willingness to kill gives him an advantage that Spidey lacks as Bond doesn’t have to hold back. As far as weapons go (not counting the aforementioned gadgets) Bond has guns while Spider-Man has his webslingers. Let’s say that Q develops some gadget in Bond’s watch that allows him to corrode any webs on him, meaning Spidey can’t detain Bond for long.

The four big advantages for Spider-Man are his strength, agility, wall-crawling, and his spider-sense. Spider-Man can lift 10 tons so Bond isn’t going to get a lot done with his bare hands. One punch should knock out Bond. The agility and spider-sense combine to where Spider-Man regularly avoids machine gun fire at close range. James Bond isn’t going to be spraying bullets around like The Punisher and likely won’t get a hit. The wall-crawling means that, unlike 007, Spider-Man can completely fight in three dimensions.

In short, James Bond will put up a good fight but he’s not superhuman. (Actually my genre savviness says that they’ll fight for a while, realize they’re on the same side, then team up to save the world).

What’s that? Why, yes, I AM a gigantic nerd

 

[PRmerger]

After Britain considered making a law banning religious jokes a website had a poll and ranked it the funniest religious joke ever. See Emo’s response here

Ah. Britain. That explains everything.

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe it’s reward for legalizing same-sex marriage and because a high number of homosexual people in the entertainment industry live there.

Huh. I wonder what would happen to the weather there if Californians legalize polyamory.

Since Love is (apparently) all that matters, the more you can love (and and sex with) the better, the weather there should be positively heavenly when this occurs.

 

[PRmerger]

If I were to have with any seriousness tried to establish that God was not sectarian, then yes it would be on my shoulders to present evidence and reason to back up such claim. I made no attempt to demonstrate the claim as to whether God was sectarian. It was clear that it was sheer unfettered (and perhaps unwarranted) optimism that he wouldn’t be.

Well, whatever it was, it certainly limned that your assertions about God (yes, yes, if he or she exists at all, since you’re an atheist and all that) were rooted in how you wish things were. Kind of like your atheism, now that I think about it.

It’s that same type of unwarranted optimism I get each time seeing a response you’ve made to me and hoping that you won’t misrepresent what I’ve written.

Never, ever, have I misrepresented what you’ve written.

#likenever

 

[PRmerger]

I certainly wouldn’t say that love is *all *that matters.

Excellent.

So you are, like the CC, of the position that sometimes, even if people love each other, that it’s not the right thing to pursue that love.

Love can’t always win.

If it’s an immoral love.