Call and response in TLM?

[gregY]

Some of you may be familiar with the controversy surrounding Fr. Francis Michel in Thiberville, France (link to the back story HERE). I noticed in the video that the TLM he offered was a “call-and-response.”
Link: youtube.com/watch?v=tts7Z-UE7g4&feature=player_embedded
I have never seen EF like this, but only Low Mass with an altar boy and High Mass with choir singing. To me it seems like a hybrid of sorts… obviously the 1962 Missal, but celebrating it in a more “OF style.” Sorta strikes me as what the Holy Father or the Council Fathers were actually shooting for…
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks Greg

 

[TrueLight]

Some of you may be familiar with the controversy surrounding Fr. Francis Michel in Thiberville, France (link to the back story HERE). I noticed in the video that the TLM he offered was a “call-and-response.”
Link: youtube.com/watch?v=tts7Z-UE7g4&feature=player_embedded
I have never seen EF like this, but only Low Mass with an altar boy and High Mass with choir singing. To me it seems like a hybrid of sorts… obviously the 1962 Missal, but celebrating it in a more “OF style.” Sorta strikes me as what the Holy Father or the Council Fathers were actually shooting for…
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks Greg

I didn’t watch the whole video.

Are you speaking of the end of mass that is at the beginning (from 00:08 to about 00:46??

If so, that is normal for an EF.

Also, I think the people responding are the choir (I know they don’t sound that professional). The reason I think that is because no one on camera appears to be singing.

But they certainly could respond if they wanted to.

Could you maybe let us know which point in the video you are referring to?

 

[robert7685]

If I had to venture a guess, the poor priest had no idea what he was doing. He was a replacement for the pastor who was removed from ministry by the liberal minded bishop.

 

[gregY]

I didn’t watch the whole video.

Are you speaking of the end of mass that is at the beginning (from 00:08 to about 00:46??
…
Could you maybe let us know which point in the video you are referring to?

Yes, exactly. This is not the “poor priest” who filled in, but the stalwart priest that was suspended by his bishop (until the Vatican intervened, thanks be to God).

To me it had sounded like the whole congregation was responding…
Also, when I have been to High masses before, my chief complaint is that the choir is singing something different from what the priest is doing, which is very confusing to me as someone who is more accustomed to the OF. I liked this better, but maybe it’s normal and I’m just off here (full disclosure, I do not normally attend TLM, just drop in on a daily low Mass every now and then).

 

[YoungTradCath]

Yes, exactly. This is not the “poor priest” who filled in, but the stalwart priest that was suspended by his bishop (until the Vatican intervened, thanks be to God).

To me it had sounded like the whole congregation was responding…
Also, when I have been to High masses before, my chief complaint is that the choir is singing something different from what the priest is doing, which is very confusing to me as someone who is more accustomed to the OF. I liked this better, but maybe it’s normal and I’m just off here (full disclosure, I do not normally attend TLM, just drop in on a daily low Mass every now and then).

What, pray tell, happened in the end to the priest and his parish after the Vatican intervention?

Hey, that could be a new show: “Vatican Intervention!”

 

[Rich_C]

The middle part appeared to be a priest in the vestments of the Ordinary Form reading the EF out of an alter missal. If so, he hadn’t been trained in offer the Mass.

That said, have you ever heard of a “dialogue Mass”? My 1954 missal praises it in the forward, noting that Pope Pius IX (IIRC) first celebrated one for pilgrims in Rome and that Pope Pius XII encouraged it.

In a dialogue Mass the people joined the servers’ audible responses, so this was definitely allowed before Vatican II.

 

[malphono]

Some of you may be familiar with the controversy surrounding Fr. Francis Michel in Thiberville, France (link to the back story HERE). I noticed in the video that the TLM he offered was a “call-and-response.”
Link: youtube.com/watch?v=tts7Z-UE7g4&feature=player_embedded
I have never seen EF like this, but only Low Mass with an altar boy and High Mass with choir singing. To me it seems like a hybrid of sorts… obviously the 1962 Missal, but celebrating it in a more “OF style.” Sorta strikes me as what the Holy Father or the Council Fathers were actually shooting for…
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks Greg

In the scene at he beginning of the video (the end of Mass by the unfortunately deposed priest) there is a deacon and a subdeacon, and it’s a little odd that the Ite missa est was sung by the priest and not the deacon as is normal at Solemn Mass. OTOH, the priest was wearing a black zuchetto which is very unusual, but is definitely a nice touch. It appears that the majority of the congregation is the “choir” (IOW, a lot of them seem to be singing the responses) and of course there’s no problem with that at all.

As for the latter parts of the video, the “replacement priest” clearly has absolutely no idea of how to say Mass according to the 1962 books.In fact, that Mass looks like it could well be the Novus Ordo in Latin (and, from the look of things, grudgingly done ad orientem) rather than the Usus Antiquior at all. And even if it is the Latin Novus Ordo, it seems to have been very poorly done, such that one would have to assume the “replacement priest” didn’t have much of a clue about that either. In any case, I should hope that what’s shown is not a reflection of what anyone, be it Pope or Council Fathers, had in mind.

 

[YoungTradCath]

In the scene at he beginning of the video (the end of Mass by the unfortunately deposed priest) there is a deacon and a subdeacon, and it’s a little odd that the Ite missa est was sung by the priest and not the deacon as is normal at Solemn Mass. OTOH, the priest was wearing a black zuchetto which is very unusual, but is definitely a nice touch. It appears that the majority of the congregation is the “choir” (IOW, a lot of them seem to be singing the responses) and of course there’s no problem with that at all.

As for the latter parts of the video, the “replacement priest” clearly has absolutely no idea of how to say Mass according to the 1962 books.In fact, that Mass looks like it could well be the Novus Ordo in Latin (and, from the look of things, grudgingly done ad orientem) rather than the Usus Antiquior at all. And even if it is the Latin Novus Ordo, it seems to have been very poorly done, such that one would have to assume the “replacement priest” didn’t have much of a clue about that either. In any case, I should hope that what’s shown is not a reflection of what anyone, be it Pope or Council Fathers, had in mind.

The second mass was an EF mass, but a supremely poorly celebrated one, which would have probably landed him many many many mortal sins if this was 1920.

I know it was an EF because the Inroibo ad altare Dei was being said.

 

[malphono]

The second mass was an EF mass, but a supremely poorly celebrated one, which would have probably landed him many many many mortal sins if this was 1920.

I know it was an EF because the Inroibo ad altare Dei was being said.

Could well be I missed that. The non-English captions distracted me to no end, and I couldn’t help but skip around. Anyway, that it was supposed to the Usus Antiquior makes it all the worse, at least it does to me.