Call me an old Curmudgeon, but

[whipp711]

…I can take it.

A tabernacle question in this forum got me to thinking. At our Parish across a lake near Dallas, Texas, the tabernacle is hidden in small chapel, not in plain sight, and generally not readily seen. For a long time, the parishioners have been told to only bow to the altar upon entering a pew.

The wife and I (per usual) genuflected upon entering and leaving the pew. Recently, a fellow parishioner explained that we only needed to bow. I politely indicated that I did not agree with the architectual arrangement, which only breeds lazy Catholics. GASP!

I’m just concerned about this parish’s lack of spirituality (in my humble opinion). For a decade or more, there wasn’t even a crucifix behind the altar. Just the one on a staff carried by the altar servers. The choir is basically a band. I swear the music is show tunes with reverent lyrics. Most raise their hands to mimick the Father’s orans. The list goes on, but a rant is not what I’m getting at in this post.

I know, I need to get a grip and be positive. What others do or practice is not the reason or should be the center of my attention. Should I reverently, silently practice worship in a manner I think is right, or should I move on to another parish with different practices?

It’s okay to call me a curmudgeon.

 

[pat_mc_1]

…I can take it.

A tabernacle question in this forum got me to thinking. At our Parish across a lake near Dallas, Texas, the tabernacle is hidden in small chapel, not in plain sight, and generally not readily seen. For a long time, the parishioners have been told to only bow to the altar upon entering a pew.

The wife and I (per usual) genuflected upon entering and leaving the pew. Recently, a fellow parishioner explained that we only needed to bow. I politely indicated that I did not agree with the architectual arrangement, which only breeds lazy Catholics. GASP!

I’m just concerned about this parish’s lack of spirituality (in my humble opinion). For a decade or more, there wasn’t even a crucifix behind the altar. Just the one on a staff carried by the altar servers. The choir is basically a band. I swear the music is show tunes with reverent lyrics. Most raise their hands to mimick the Father’s orans. The list goes on, but a rant is not what I’m getting at in this post.

I know, I need to get a grip and be positive. What others do or practice is not the reason or should be the center of my attention. Should I reverently, silently practice worship in a manner I think is right, or should I move on to another parish with different practices?

It’s okay to call me a curmudgeon.

Well since the tabernacle isn’t behind the main altar or off to the side you shouldn’t genuflect. Just a bow will do.

But I would totally find a new parish if I was you.

 

[puzzleannie]

if the church architecture, or the business of the church, or its location necessitates keeping the main church locked, these or several other reasons are valid reasons to have the tabernacle in a side chapel. Whatever arrangement makes the Blessed Sacrament more accessible to worshippers outside Mass is a good one.

When the tabernacle is not on or behind the altar, the correct procedure is to bow to the altar. We genuflect only to the Blessed Sacrament, whether exposed on the altar after the consecration, during adoration, or in the tabernacle. We bow to the altar when the Blessed Sacrament is not present there.

If the parishioners are not reverent there are likely many other reasons for that besides placement of the tabernacle. What did the priest say when you asked him? Is there a crucifix now? then why are you concerned about it now? Have you been to other masses, is there no other option on music?

 

[Big_Feet]

Either would be fine, but may I ask, when you genuflect, what are you genuflecting to?
One should genuflect ONLY to our LORD with their right knee. Genuflecting with our left knee is appropriate when greeting someone of importance like the Pope, or another earthly king. When entering a place where the LORD is not present in the Eucharist (only an altar) one should do a profound bow towards that object out of reverence of what has and will occur there, mainly the bloodless sacrifice of the LORD.

 

[domandcarols]

Speaking as a young curmudgeon, I’d find a new parish.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Speaking as a young curmudgeon, I’d find a new parish.

Yep.

There is no reason why the “architecture” of the church should take precedence over Jesus. D’oh. Dx

AS FOR “Being positive”. Being positive doesn’t mean that you have to accept the fact that things aren’t right. They aren’t right. I’d maybe even talk to the bishop.

CATHOLIC and PASSIVE are not synonymous.

 

[rstegeman]

Should I reverently, silently practice worship in a manner I think is right, or should I move on to another parish with different practices?

Be careful about doing what YOU think is right. Talk to the priest or bishop about it. Pray to be willing to accept their answer even if it might not be what you want to hear.

Also, maybe you and your wife are meant to be at that parish, to help display proper behavior and attitude, thus influencing other parishioners.

 

[Big_Feet]

Be careful about doing what YOU think is right. Talk to the priest or bishop about it. Pray to be willing to accept their answer even if it might not be what you want to hear.

Also, maybe you and your wife are meant to be at that parish, to help display proper behavior and attitude, thus influencing other parishioners.

EXACTLY!

 

[whipp711]

if the church architecture, or the business of the church, or its location necessitates keeping the main church locked,

Everything is on lock down. Lock the main church, the chapel is locked.

We bow to the altar when the Blessed Sacrament is not present there.

 

[whipp711]

Also, maybe you and your wife are meant to be at that parish, to help display proper behavior and attitude, thus influencing other parishioners.

Never thought about that. That hits a strong note in me. I shall give it some thought!

 

[Big_Feet]

 

[whipp711]

You sound extremely judgemental, and set in your ways.

I believe you are right on the judgemental part. Maybe set in ways of worship, but the rest of my life is pretty darn open to change. I never react judge to anything else in my life.

Being set in your ways can be good, but I think you may be so to a fault.

Hence, me being open to be called a Curmudgeon.

It also sounds like this parish may be in a bad area of town, and may lack the funds to make any major corrections.

Negative. Very RICH suburb, highly educated congregation. I’ve always wondered if a valet service out front would work.

Please be patient and understanding, and calm down on the judgement.

I’ve been active in this parish for 12 years. I’m calm, and patience is wanning.

Find another parish that you are more comfortable in, if you must!

That is the option. I’d like to be supportive of my local Catholic community, and I’ll probably continue to open dialogue with the folks there. Give it and me twelve more chances or so.

 

[OraLabora]

if the church architecture, or the business of the church, or its location necessitates keeping the main church locked, these or several other reasons are valid reasons to have the tabernacle in a side chapel. Whatever arrangement makes the Blessed Sacrament more accessible to worshippers outside Mass is a good one.

When the tabernacle is not on or behind the altar, the correct procedure is to bow to the altar. We genuflect only to the Blessed Sacrament, whether exposed on the altar after the consecration, during adoration, or in the tabernacle. We bow to the altar when the Blessed Sacrament is not present there.

If the parishioners are not reverent there are likely many other reasons for that besides placement of the tabernacle. What did the priest say when you asked him? Is there a crucifix now? then why are you concerned about it now? Have you been to other masses, is there no other option on music?

We also genuflect to the cross on Good Friday (and as I recall Sept. 14, feast of the Holy Cross).

 

[1ke]

Genuflecting to the altar is not “protest”. It is simply incorrect.

We are not to genuflect to the altar. We are to make a bow to the altar. We only genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament.

Frankly, genuflecting makes you look ignorant, not superior.

 

[whipp711]

Genuflecting to the altar is not “protest”. It is simply incorrect.

We are not to genuflect to the altar. We are to make a bow to the altar. We only genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament.

Frankly, genuflecting makes you look ignorant, not superior.

Thanks! I don’t feel so judgemental and set in my ways now.

 

[TheDoctor]

Whipp - you are an old curmudgeon.

I think 1ke gave you a good piece of advice to reflect on.

In my own experience when I talk to a non-Catholic about Mass, one of the first things they do is ask if our genuflecting is not idolatry since we are showing reverence to a piece of stone. I explain that I genuflect to show reverence and respect to Jesus, actually present in the Holy Eucharist in the Tabernacle. When you genuflect toward the altar knowing the Tabernacle is not there, you are outwardly showing reverence to a piece of stone, exactly what my non-Catholic friends think we do.

If you have an issue with the placement of the Tabernacle, I would not protest. You talk to the pastor and if you think the pastor is out of line to the Bishop but you accept and respect them. And if the Tabernacle is off the the side you genuflect to that and bow to the altar.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Yep.

There is no reason why the “architecture” of the church should take precedence over Jesus. D’oh. Dx

AS FOR “Being positive”. Being positive doesn’t mean that you have to accept the fact that things aren’t right. They aren’t right. I’d maybe even talk to the bishop.

CATHOLIC and PASSIVE are not synonymous.

The placement of the tabernacle in a chapel visible from the church is not in violation of any church “architecture laws”. It is a legitimate and “right” arrangement option. We have the same arrangement. The chapel is used for Mass, Exposition, and Adoration. The tabernacle is set in a beautifully decorated alcove. I personally prefer it to be in the main Church, up front, but it is not, and I am well aware that the arrangement is legitimate, and that the architecture is not taking precedence over Jesus. There is no reason to get upset over the placement–after all, I am only one of ten thousand in my parish, many prefer the arrangement as it is. This is not a legitimate matter to take to the Bishop.

You have to be careful not to give the impression that your preference or taste is the only correct one, when in fact, it is not.

 

[whipp711]

Whipp - you are an old curmudgeon.

Finally. Actually, I’m not that old. Additionally, I’m a convert from a very liberal Presbyterian background.

I accept the Curmudgeon moniker Doctor. No harm, no foul.

I think 1ke gave you a good piece of advice to reflect on.

Advise yes. Condensending attitude no.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Advise yes. Condensending attitude no.

I guess condescension is in the eye of the beholder.

What I saw was fraternal correction.

 

[whipp711]

I guess condescension is in the eye of the beholder.

What I saw was fraternal correction.

Frankly, genuflecting makes you look ignorant, not superior.

Ummmm, okay.