Call me an old Curmudgeon, but

[whipp711]

After reflection and fraternal advice, I will now bow to the alter. That’ll keep me in the traditionalist and correctness crowd, since 70% parishioners don’t even do that (that’s an estimate of course).

I will have open discussion with the my priest and building committee. Civil exchange of ideas and thoughts. Who knows.

If I can find the tabernacle, genuflect and contemplation with prayer.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

Is the chapel where the sacrament is reserved a side chapel in the main church, or a completely seperate room somewhere else? In my old parish, and many large cathedrals and major shrines, it is located in a side chapel. If that is the case, just genuflect in the direction of the tabernacle if you feel inclined (and you should!) to show it respect.

If it is in another completely seperate room for some reason (I sure can’t think of one for a parish church), then I guess you should consider just bowing to the altar.

HOWEVER, I doubt anyone will find you ignorant or wrongheaded if you continue to genuflect. Sounds like most people at your parish wouldn’t know the difference. And the people here who would call you ignorant are just more concerned with convincing themselves that traditional, revent Catholics are ignorant, backwards boors.

From one (young) curmudgeon to another, find a parish where you can concentrate on Mass, not the crazed progressive hootenanny.

 

[whipp711]

Completely separate room that was converted into a microchapel, down a hallway at the back of the church.

At one time, it was in a dedicated chapel, behind the altar, and behind the band in the main room. You walked around the altar area to gain access to an entrance.

I’ll talk to the Father about this further.

 

[1ke]

Ummmm, okay.

For those who seem to want to read more into my statement than is there, the word “ignorant” means uninformed, unaware, lacking in knowledge.

Genuflecting is reserved for the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. When you genuflect to other objects, you appear ignorant. In other words, *unaware *and *uninformed *that genuflecting is wrong in that circumstance.

Ignorant does not mean boorish. Boorish refers to a rude or unmannerly person. And, it has nothing to do with being a “traditionalist” or not being a “traditionalist”. In fact, I would expect a person who self-identifies as a “traditionalist” to agree that it is absolutely incorrect to *genuflect *to an inanimate object when the Blessed Sacrament is not present.

I correct my CCD students all the time regarding genuflecting versus bowing and when it is appropriate to do which. For example, you do NOT genuflect when you attend your cousin’s wedding at the Methodist church. I impress upon them what and WHO it is we genuflect to. I would think a “traditionalist” would be acutely aware of this distinction and **want **to model it for others.

The Spiritual Works of Mercy include: instruct the ignorant. The Church is not being insulting when it calls a person ignorant, and neither am I. Moreover, I did not call the OP ignorant. I stated that the “protest” actions he is taking make him appear ignorant.

 

[LayingHands]

…I can take it.

A tabernacle question in this forum got me to thinking. At our Parish across a lake near Dallas, Texas, the tabernacle is hidden in small chapel, not in plain sight, and generally not readily seen. For a long time, the parishioners have been told to only bow to the altar upon entering a pew.

The wife and I (per usual) genuflected upon entering and leaving the pew. Recently, a fellow parishioner explained that we only needed to bow. I politely indicated that I did not agree with the architectual arrangement, which only breeds lazy Catholics. GASP!

I’m just concerned about this parish’s lack of spirituality (in my humble opinion). For a decade or more, there wasn’t even a crucifix behind the altar. Just the one on a staff carried by the altar servers. The choir is basically a band. I swear the music is show tunes with reverent lyrics. Most raise their hands to mimick the Father’s orans. The list goes on, but a rant is not what I’m getting at in this post.

I know, I need to get a grip and be positive. What others do or practice is not the reason or should be the center of my attention. Should I reverently, silently practice worship in a manner I think is right, or should I move on to another parish with different practices?

It’s okay to call me a curmudgeon.

Old one, do as you feel because your respect is to GOD and His only begotten son…when it becomes a question of dogma and changes within the church, it is moreso difficult to keep up with those changes and again wonder why they are made up, at all.

Set up an altar at home too and pray, genuflect, blow kisses, and wave to Christ, to your hearts content…do not change churches. I’m sure your loving, believing family is around you always…Christ said “Where there are two or three who believe in me, there too am I.”

My father was eighty and too old to change his religious ways…this did not mean he was forsaken by GOD because he could not or would not, change with the new dogmas or changes in prayer, mannerisms or worship…he continued to do so in the old ways as taught by his blessed mother and the old CC, way back when and too, he set up his altar at home too, for the worship and glorifying of GOD, to his hearts content.

Blessings and Merry Christ Mass!!

 

[crazzeto]

Greater spiritual reverence is not something that should be discouraged, though perhaps given the culture of your parish you might have to explain your self more. I would suggest taking great care to avoid spiritual pride, but do practice the greater level of reverence. Simply take care, with all the charity you can muster, to explain why you genuflect instead of bow.

Take care not to imply that the rest of the Church is going to hell, this usually doesn’t go over well. Just explain that your passion for the Lord madates (from you) a greater level of reverence.

I hope what I said made any sense at all, Merry Christmas!

 

[1ke]

but do practice the greater level of reverence. Simply take care, with all the charity you can muster, to explain why you genuflect instead of bow.

You’ve missed the point that it is not a *greater *level of reverence to genuflect to the altar rather than bow, it is an *improper *level of reverence to give to the altar.

 

[whipp711]

You’ve missed the point that it is not a *greater *level of reverence to genuflect to the altar rather than bow, it is an *improper *level of reverence to give to the altar.

I can agree with that statement, but it does set up (in my mind) some questioning. When receiving the body of Christ, we are told to only bow (in my parish). I know genuflecting is an option. Just bowing at that moment seems less reverent. Improper?

Just curious.

 

[whipp711]

Oh, and Merry Christmas to all.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

The placement of the tabernacle in a chapel visible from the church is not in violation of any church “architecture laws”. It is a legitimate and “right” arrangement option. We have the same arrangement. There is no reason to get upset over the placement–after all, I am only one of ten thousand in my parish, many prefer the arrangement as it is. This is not a legitimate matter to take to the Bishop.

I didn’t say anything about being in violation. Maybe read my post again.

The number of people in your congregation is absolutely irrelevant to what I was trying to get across.

Why should I have to go through you to take a matter to a bishop? If I feel that it is necessary for the tabernacle to be in the church for the good of the souls of the congregation, then I am going to take it up with the bishop. I don’t have to go through a panel of judges to speak to a bishop.

You have to be careful not to give the impression that your preference or taste is the only correct one, when in fact, it is not.

I could say the same to you.

 

[PA650]

…I can take it.

A tabernacle question in this forum got me to thinking. At our Parish across a lake near Dallas, Texas, the tabernacle is hidden in small chapel, not in plain sight, and generally not readily seen. For a long time, the parishioners have been told to only bow to the altar upon entering a pew.

The wife and I (per usual) genuflected upon entering and leaving the pew. Recently, a fellow parishioner explained that we only needed to bow. I politely indicated that I did not agree with the architectual arrangement, which only breeds lazy Catholics. GASP!

I’m just concerned about this parish’s lack of spirituality (in my humble opinion). For a decade or more, there wasn’t even a crucifix behind the altar. Just the one on a staff carried by the altar servers. The choir is basically a band. I swear the music is show tunes with reverent lyrics. Most raise their hands to mimick the Father’s orans. The list goes on, but a rant is not what I’m getting at in this post.

I know, I need to get a grip and be positive. What others do or practice is not the reason or should be the center of my attention. Should I reverently, silently practice worship in a manner I think is right, or should I move on to another parish with different practices?

It’s okay to call me a curmudgeon.

Have you thought about attending the Traditional Latin Mass?

 

[manualman]

1ke sometimes has the subtlety of a framing hammer, but she generally hits the nail pretty squarely. Catholicism values and honors traditions, but those traditions need to be consistent with their meaning. If (for good or bad reason) the tabernacle isn’t behind the altar, the act of genuflecting toward the altar transforms from being a good and holy sign of reverence for the Lord’s presence in the tabernacle to a disconnected action that implies worship of a table where none is intended.

I have a similar problem in my parish. They stuffed the tabernacle in a corner not even visible from the main church. We’ve selected a pew location in which we face the altar AND the corner where the tabernacle is hidden. Is your chapel located such that you could simply turn and face it when genuflecting?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Is the small chapel open for adoration? Do you and your wife do there to adore regularly? Perhpas you should start.

Merry Christmas!