Call No Man Father (Again)

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Linkowski said:
Catholics may not be commanded to do so - but they do…we are, as I illustrated, commanded the opposite; to call *no man *father from a spirtual standpoint…nor Master nor Rabbi.
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I do not think that we need to bring Teacher and Doctor into this.
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And why not? Does that same discourse by our Lord not say “Call no man teacher” or, if you prefer, “rabbi,” which means teacher? Is it because “teacher” is english whereas “rabbi” is Hebrew? If that’s the case, “father” is neither Hebrew nor Aramaic, so we’re set!
Your scripture quotes only give an illustration and do not mean that we must call them father.
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You’re missing the point. If you don’t call Abraham “Father” - fine. That’s no sin. But if you are to say that it is WRONG to call Abraham Father, then you must say that Paul sinned in writing this (and thus scripture endorses a theological error and hence is unreliable) AND you must say that JESUS sinned in Luke 16:24, and that Mary and Zechariah sinned in their hymns in Luke 1, etc.

If there was ever a case of picking and choosing from scripture, there it is!
 
I don’t get how Protestants can even argue this. Especially since most call their pastors “Reverend”

Reverend -
Worthy of reverence; entitled to respect mingled with fear and affection; venerable.

That seems much worse to me than someone being called Father.
 
teachccd said:
OOPS! Paul, what were you thinking??:hmmm:

! Corinthians 1:14-17

14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus** I became your father through the gospel**. 16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
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Linkowski said:
Catholics may not be commanded to do so - but they do…we are, as I illustrated, commanded the opposite; to call *no man *father from a spirtual standpoint…nor Master nor Rabbi. I do not think that we need to bring Teacher and Doctor into this. Your scripture quotes only give an illustration and do not mean that we must call them father. The true fact of the matter, is that the priests are given titles - Father Joe, Father Tom, and so on.

The only time I use this title is in prayer to my heavenly Father above.
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Home come you don’t complain that with St. Paul? He called himself “Father” as in ‘your father through the gospel’. 😉
 
Why did you only use the one verse? In the same chapter Jesus said to call no man Rabbi-which means teacher, dr. etc.

Picking one verse out of context is dishonest.
 
In the first place, “Father” isn’t a formal title for priests; it’s a term of affection. Their formal titles are titles like “Reverend,” “Doctor,” and so forth, depending on their level of education.

Secondly, in some of my more cynical moments, I think the reason we call them “Father” is because we can’t call them “Mother” - I was having one of those days recently, while driving a priest back to his home from a Church function, and he was gently “hen-pecking” me all the way there, asking me the sorts of questions that normally only my mother would ask.

I love my priests, of course, and I love my mother, but I sometimes think it’s funny how much they seem to have in common. 😛

Of course what Jesus wanted us to understand was that no man is our Father like God is our Father, and every human male, including our biological and spiritual fathers, is also a child of God just like ourselves, and that we are equal to them in our human dignity.
 
And do not forget Jesus quoting from Isaiah [where there is the giving of the “Keys” to the Prime Minister]. I know our seperated brethren do not like this passage from Isaiah, but how do the people know [and call] the one who possesses the power to open and close, they call him ABBA.
**
Abba, Father, Papa or Dad. From the italian for papa is where we get the word Pope.
 
Linkowski said:
Catholics may not be commanded to do so - but they do…we are, as I illustrated, commanded the opposite; to call *no man *father from a spirtual standpoint…nor Master nor Rabbi. I do not think that we need to bring Teacher and Doctor into this. Your scripture quotes only give an illustration and do not mean that we must call them father. **The true fact of the matter, is that the priests are given titles **- Father Joe, Father Tom, and so on.

The only time I use this title is in prayer to my heavenly Father above.
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Although it has since been pointed out, I felt it bears repeating.

The “title” a priest is given is Reverand. Father is a term of affection and respect we give to the person who has become a spiritual Father to us, who encourages our Relationship with Christ and helps to guide us in the right direction.

You do not wish to discuss teacher or doctor yet they are both part of the same points Christ was making. History shows us that Protestants in fact used the term Father (as well as still use doctor, teacher etc.) until they realized how widespread it was among Catholics, so clearly they did not take it literally, at least up until they realized Catholics used the term also.

The real question is why have some Protestants chosen to change their interpretation of scripture since a mere 200 years ago, you could hear the term “father” applied to Protestant ministers as well as Catholic priests.

God Bless,
Maria
 
Linkowski said:
He is obviously not speaking of our biological fathers but the very practice of the Catholic Church in giving a TITLE of Father.
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Obviously?? He said “Call **no man **your father on earth” What’s obvious is that the man who fathered you is **a man **and he is/was on earth. How can you say what Jesus was “obviously” saying?? You take direct text and distort it to your liking?? It’s either hyperbole or it’s literal. Pick one but don’t tweak it to your own gospel like most “bible only” Christians constantly do. SHEEESH!:eek:
 
jmcrae said:
In the first place, “Father” isn’t a formal title for priests; it’s a term of affection. Their formal titles are titles like “Reverend,” “Doctor,” and so forth, depending on their level of education.

Secondly, in some of my more cynical moments, I think the reason we call them “Father” is because we can’t call them “Mother” - I was having one of those days recently, while driving a priest back to his home from a Church function, and he was gently “hen-pecking” me all the way there, asking me the sorts of questions that normally only my mother would ask.

I love my priests, of course, and I love my mother, but I sometimes think it’s funny how much they seem to have in common. 😛

Of course what Jesus wanted us to understand was that no man is our Father like God is our Father, and every human male, including our biological and spiritual fathers, is also a child of God just like ourselves, and that we are equal to them in our human dignity.
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I humbly agree with you when you say pretty much what I have quoted above. It seems to be condemning one who pridefully puts him or herself above all others. And so I will agree with this particular interpretation. So, it’s all good.

Thanks.
 
Linkowski said:
I humbly agree with you when you say pretty much what I have quoted above. It seems to be condemning one who pridefully puts him or herself above all others. And so I will agree with this particular interpretation. So, it’s all good.

Thanks.
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Please forgive me, but are you saying that you understand and agree that it is okay to call a man Father, meaning our spiritual father as long as we have proper understanding?
 
I was never given a forward answer regarding this previously in another thread.

There are only 2 possibilities here for a literal view point
  1. God is prohibiting the word itself. That is the aramaic for “father” only.
  2. God is prohibiting the meaning behind the word for father. The definition of father is as follows
**1. **A man who begets or raises or nurtures a child.
**2. **A male parent of an animal.
**3. **A male ancestor.
**4. **A man who creates, originates, or founds something: Chaucer is considered the father of English poetry.
**5. **An early form; a prototype.
**6. **Father Christianity **a. **God.
**b. **The first person of the Christian Trinity.

**7. **An elderly or venerable man. Used as a title of respect.
**8. **A member of the senate in ancient Rome.
**9. **One of the leading men, as of a city: the town fathers.
**10. **or Father A church father.
**11. ***Abbr. *Fr. **a. **A priest or clergyman in the Roman Catholic or Anglican churches.
**b. **Used as a title and form of address with or without the clergyman’s name.

Then any word that denotes fatherhood must be prohibited (eg DAD). We cannot either for example acknowledge Edison for any of his inventions otherwise we are acknowledging him as a father.

It is then obvious that the prohibition must be more specific to
the religious sphere. Here there are also 2 possibilities
  1. The prohibition of acknowledging a person bringing forth spiritual growth to another person. But here Scripture indicates otherwise (eg Paul, Abraham etc). Take this simple example, as you are hearing a sermon from a Pastor you are allowing his fathering of you spiritually. Hence you are, even though you do not use the word, acknowledging him as a spiritual father.
  2. The prohibition of assimilating God’s specific "F"atherhood with the "f"atherhood of creatures…this is the Catholic view point
Alex
 
I can’t believe this keeps coming up. It’s just silly. Anyone who takes this verse literally should not call their male parent “Father,” nor should they celebrate Father’s Day, or allow their children to call them “Father” or even “Dad.” It goes without saying there we should never refer to George Washington or anyone else as a founding father of our country. We shouldn’t even speak of founding fathers.

As for “Father Abraham,” what was Jesus thinking? Was he contradicting himself? After all, he said to call no man ‘father.’

Or, one could recognize that hyperbole is a commonly recognized form of speaking, both now, and in Jesus’ time, and Jesus used it to good effect.
 
Chaldean Catholics call their priests the following:
  1. When speaking to a priest in Aramaic, we say: Rabbi (pronounced Ra-bee), which means “my teacher”.
  2. When speaking to a priest in Arabic, we say: Abouna (pronounced A-boo-na), which means “our father”.
  3. When speaking to a priest in English, we say: Father
We love our priests!

The prohibition in Matthew is directed against absolutizing any one individual and setting him up above God our Father, Christ our Teacher, and the Holy Spirit our Illuminator. Catholics in the East and West don’t make these absolutizations with regards our deacons, priests, and bishops. Every Catholic understands the difference between God and man, and how God is approached and how man is approached.

Fundamentalist Protestants don’t understand this, typically because of their individualistic mentality, as opposed to a communal and familial mentality of Catholics. FPs have lost the sense of universal family that the Catholic Church understands herself to be.

God bless,

Rony
 
MariaG said:
Please forgive me, but are you saying that you understand and agree that it is okay to call a man Father, meaning our spiritual father as long as we have proper understanding?
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Yes - I am agreeing with you. I am the one wrong here. Thank you again for your help.
 
Linkowski said:
Yes - I am agreeing with you. I am the one wrong here. Thank you again for your help.
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No, thank you. It is a rare person, (and even rarer here on these forums) who can come with an opinion about various issues, be shown they are wrong, and they admit it.

May God continue to bless you with wisdom and humility.

Maria
 
MariaG said:
No, thank you. It is a rare person, (and even rarer here on these forums) who can come with an opinion about various issues, be shown they are wrong, and they admit it.

May God continue to bless you with wisdom and humility.

Maria
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With God, all things are possible…🙂
 
Linkowski said:
nor Master nor Rabbi.
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Mister is derived from Master, so anyone in school who calls there teache… oops, can’t say that. Insturctor guy, “Mr. Smith,” is really saying, “Master Smith.” Rabbi means teacher as does Doctor, when we get sick we see a Doctor (teacher.)
 
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