Call No Man "Father"

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goforgoal

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There are a great deal that argue that it is “wrong” to call a Priest Father.

Even my family members, who are Catholic, don’t think it’s right to call a Priest Father.

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

The Lord’s Prayer they state has Our Father who art in Heaven, not Our Father’s who art in earth.

I do understand why we call Priest “father” but I don’t really understand why we call the Pope “Holy father”? Isn’t that calling him “God”?

I’m sorry if I seem to be judgemental and I don’t mean to cause any harm with anyone…I want to know more, I need to understand, and so forth. Please and thank you

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHYFATHR.htm

goforgoal
 
From: blog.catholic-convert.com/?p=2259
The word HOLY in Hebrew is kodesh and means apartness, holiness, sacredness, consecration, separateness. Holiness can mean without sin. It can also means dedicated or set apart for God.
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So, is the Pope holy in the sense of being completely sinless? Of course not. But the Pope is set apart for God in a special way as the HOLY Father, the Vicar of Christ, the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter.
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I do understand why we call Priest “father” but I don’t really understand why we call the Pope “Holy father”? Isn’t that calling him “God”?
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Of course not. Nobody would think that any person could be considered God.
This is a common problem with people that don’t read the whole bible and pick a verse here and there and say “See!, it says to call no man Father. That’s it!!”.

“But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).

So we can not use rabbi, teacher, father nor master. It is forbidden!! But look at these verses:

“So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a **father **to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt” (Gen. 45

“Fathers! Listen to me” Acts 7:2

“For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher” (2 Tim. 1:11).

“Doctor” is the Latin word for “Teacher”. You cannot then call your doctor by his title, nor say so and so is my “Teacher” and what do you do for applications where it says “Father’s name”… Do you scratch it out? What would you put in its place? So if the bible uses those “forbidden” titles and we also use them almost every day it must be ok to use them and of course it is because Jesus was not forbidding the use of the titles but using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) showing the scribes and Pharisees how they use titles to make themselves better than others instead of being humble.

For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15). Statement by St. Paul

So the verse is taken out of contex, it is read without really understanding what Jesus was saying.
 
ricko said:
Of course not. Nobody would think that any person could be considered God.
This is a common problem with people that don’t read the whole bible and pick a verse here and there and say “See!, it says to call no man Father. That’s it!!”.

“But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).

So we can not use rabbi, teacher, father nor master. It is forbidden!! But look at these verses:

“So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a **father **to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt” (Gen. 45

“Fathers! Listen to me” Acts 7:2

“For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher” (2 Tim. 1:11).

“Doctor” is the Latin word for “Teacher”. You cannot then call your doctor by his title, nor say so and so is my “Teacher” and what do you do for applications where it says “Father’s name”… Do you scratch it out? What would you put in its place? So if the bible uses those “forbidden” titles and we also use them almost every day it must be ok to use them and of course it is because Jesus was not forbidding the use of the titles but using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) showing the scribes and Pharisees how they use titles to make themselves better than others instead of being humble.

For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15). Statement by St. Paul

So the verse is taken out of contex, it is read without really understanding what Jesus was saying.
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I assume this verse is coming from the RSV-CE as I haven’t seen this quote in the NAB or Douay-Rheims. Take this from the Haydock Bible Commentary. It doesn’t suggest that you should or should’nt call no man your father.

Ver. 14-17. I write not. St. Paul here insinuates to the Corinthians, that they ought to blush with shame for neglecting the apostles, who had suffered so many hardships for them, to follow after teachers void of honour, and to glory in being called the disciples of such men. (Estius) — I admonish you as my dearest children, of what is for your good, and I may take this liberty, as being your spiritual father in Christ, by whom you were first made Christians. Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ: follow the doctrine of Christ, which I follow, and taught you. Timothy, my beloved son in the Lord, whom I send to you, will put you in mind of what I teach, and of what I practise. (Witham)

It does however suggest He is of Christ

When I think of “call no man your Father” I assume with the capital “F” in father rather than the lower case. I could be wrong too
 
Here are notes from the Douay-Rheims and the Haydock Bible Commentary of the Douay-Rheims

9 “Call none your father upon earth”… Neither be ye called masters. The meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers, (1 Cor. 4. 23: 15,) and for our masters and teachers.

Ver. 9-10. Call none your father … Neither be ye called masters, &c. The meaning is, that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master is to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers, (1 Corinthians iv. 15,) and for our masters and teachers. (Challoner) — This name was a title of dignity: the presidents of the assembly of twenty-three judges where so called; the second judge of the sanhedrim, &c. (Bible de Vence) — Nothing is here forbidden but the contentious divisions, and self-assumed authority, of such as make themselves leaders and favourers of schisms and sects; as Donatus, Arius, Luther, Calvin, and innumerable others of very modern date. But by no means the title of father, attributed by the faith, piety, and confidence of good people, to their directors; for, St. Paul tells the Corinthians, that he is their only spiritual Father: If you have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet not many Fathers. (1 Corinthians iv. 15.), I take back my statement in my previous post
 
St. Paul typically addressed his letters to “the holy ones” or “the saints” of the various communities. Addressing the pope as “holy father” is no more presumptuous.
 
goforgoal said:
There are a great deal that argue that it is “wrong” to call a Priest Father.
Click to expand...
Call No Man Your Father

Matthew 23:8-10
8"But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ (Gr. rabbi) for you have only one Master (Gr. didaskalos, kathegetes) and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ (Gr. patera) for you have one Father (Gr. pater), and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ (Gr. kathegetai) for you have one Teacher (Gr. kathegetes), the Christ.” (NIV)

Matthew 23:8-10
8”But be not ye called Rabbi (Gr. rabbi): for one is your Master (Gr. didaskalos, kathegetes), even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father (Gr. patera) upon the earth: for one is your Father (Gr. pater), which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters (Gr. kathegetai) : for one is your Master (Gr. kathegetes), even Christ.” (KJV)

Based on the preceding passage, many non-Catholics claim that the Catholic Church violates the scriptural prohibition against calling anyone “father” since its priests are commonly called “father” and the pope is referred to as the “Holy Father.” Is this really what the Bible teaches? Let’s take a closer look at this issue by reviewing not just a single verse but all that the Bible contains on this subject.

Ephesians 4:11-13
11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers (Gr. didaskalovs), 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that God has established some people as “teachers” in the Church; this appears to be a direct violation of Jesus’ prohibition against calling anyone “teacher”. Does God contradict Himself?

James 3:1
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers (Gr. didaskaloi), my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

James, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that not many believers should presume to be “teachers.” This implies that a few (though not many) should and would rightfully have that position. Does God contradict Himself?

Luke 16:24
24So he called to him, “Father (Gr. pater) Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.”

Jesus tells a parable in which He has one of the characters speak to “Father Abraham” which would obviously be a bad example for His audience. Does Jesus contradict Himself?

(cont.)
 
Romans 4:1-18
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father (Gr. patera) of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”

In this passage, Paul refers to Abraham as a spiritual father eight times. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”

James 2:21
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, refers to the spiritual fatherhood of Abraham. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”

1 Corinthians 4:14-15
14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers (Gr. pateras), for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

In this passage, Paul refers to himself as the spiritual father of the Corinthians. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”
 
Others have shared some good responses, including scripture verses and quotes from the early church “Fathers” that are wonderful answers to your inquiry.

I’d like to offer an article, entitled, “Call No Man Father: Understanding Matthew 23:9”, by Philip Gray. Click here:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0089.html

an introductory excerpt:
“In Matthew 23:9, Jesus emphasizes the primary role of Our Heavenly Father. He created us in His image and likeness (cf. Gen. 1:26-28). He made us His children through Baptism in the death and Resurrection of His Son (cf. Rom. 5:12-21; 6:3-4; 8:12-17). Because God created us in His image and likeness, we share in the attributes of God. Insofar as men share in the attributes of the Father, they participate in the one fatherhood of God.”

I hope that helps your understanding.

Slava Isusu Christu!
 
goforgoal said:
There are a great deal that argue that it is “wrong” to call a Priest Father.

Even my family members, who are Catholic, don’t think it’s right to call a Priest Father.

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

The Lord’s Prayer they state has Our Father who art in Heaven, not Our Father’s who art in earth.

I do understand why we call Priest “father” but I don’t really understand why we call the Pope “Holy father”? Isn’t that calling him “God”?

I’m sorry if I seem to be judgemental and I don’t mean to cause any harm with anyone…I want to know more, I need to understand, and so forth. Please and thank you

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHYFATHR.htm

goforgoal
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What do you call your father?Dad,daddy,pa,pop,they all mean Father.Did you call your teacher,Teacher?I sure did.

One of the poorer and easily defeated objections by anti-Catholics to the True Faith.That’s what happens when everyone interprets scripture according to their own fallible prejudiced natures,something that St.Peter warned us about in(wait for it)… Holy Scripture.Golly!
 
goforgoal said:
There are a great deal that argue that it is “wrong” to call a Priest Father.

Even my family members, who are Catholic, don’t think it’s right to call a Priest Father.

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

The Lord’s Prayer they state has Our Father who art in Heaven, not Our Father’s who art in earth.

I do understand why we call Priest “father” but I don’t really understand why we call the Pope “Holy father”? Isn’t that calling him “God”?

I’m sorry if I seem to be judgemental and I don’t mean to cause any harm with anyone…I want to know more, I need to understand, and so forth. Please and thank you

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHYFATHR.htm

goforgoal
Click to expand...
As the son of a Lutheran pastor, I saw close-up the relationship of a pastor/priest to his parish/congregation. In many many ways it is a fatherly relationship. I see no problem with the practice, and in fact Luther uses the title in his Small Catechism under the topic of confession, referring to “Father/Confessor”.
Jon
 
The same people who accuse Catholics of violating scripture because we call our priests “Father” are the very ones who spend time every Sunday morning listening to a lesson prepared by their Sunday School teacher before going into the sanctuary to attend the service led by “Dr.” Soandso.

“Teacher” and “doctor” are derived from the same words that Jesus condemned.

A classic case of the Protestant kettle calling the Catholic pot, “black”.
 
Call No Man Father – Another View
Originally posted by Pax in the Catholic Answers Forum

In Jesus time, there were a number of Jewish sects: the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots.

These sects had schools or houses of teaching within them. Within the Pharisees there were two famous rival houses.
They were the House of Shammai and the House of Hillel. The individuals that these houses were named after were considered the “father” of the house.

Jesus warns the apostles not to be fathers to “separate” houses—for there is but one house of the Lord. Jesus also says to call no man “teacher” or “master.” This is interesting because the Apostle Paul was taught by Gamaliel (cf. Acts 22:3), a Pharisee from the House of Hillel. Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel, was known as an elder and had the title of “Rabban” which means “Our Master.” This title explains why Jesus also said call no one “master”; there is but one house and one master of all. Jesus prayed for unity (cf. John 17) and did not want the apostles to set up separate houses or schools of thought.

This is clearly expressed in Paul’s complaint in 1 Corinthians 1:10-15 when he describes how some are arguing their superiority after being baptized by, and belonging to, Paul or Apollos, or Cephas, etc. Paul goes on elsewhere to warn against factions and divisions and stresses the importance of one mind and unity of doctrine.

The meaning of “call no man father, teacher, or master” concerns unity and consistency of doctrine and has nothing to do with the commonly used references that are seen elsewhere in scripture or everyday use.
 
How can anyone take this kind of nonsisical thing seriously? Really people? Like a new child can’t call his dad “father”.

Another fluff thread.
Unsubscribing…

James
 
CentralFLJames said:
How can anyone take this kind of nonsisical thing seriously? Really people? Like a new child can’t call his dad “father”.

Another fluff thread.
Unsubscribing…

James
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I can understand your reaction. I’ve always felt that this Protestant objection was among the most lame…and doesn’t stand up to the very fundamental example you’ve given. It’s definitely nonsensical.

Unfortunately, anti-Catholics get ahold of a ‘notion’ and can’t let go of it. This will probably always be an objection, for some Protestants. One which willl have to be answered again and again and again and again…

I guess it’s a desire, among some Protestants, to keep the objections list a long one (and never to remove any of the silly ones, for fear that the list will result in a shorter one–resulting in the need to admit that it was a silly, and unbiblical, objection to begin with)
 
Randy_Carson said:
The same people who accuse Catholics of violating scripture because we call our priests “Father” are the very ones who spend time every Sunday morning listening to a lesson prepared by their Sunday School teacher before going into the sanctuary to attend the service led by “Dr.” Soandso.

“Teacher” and “doctor” are derived from the same words that Jesus condemned.

A classic case of the Protestant kettle calling the Catholic pot, “black”.
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I find it interesting that the same people that use Matthew 16:18
Can then later read Matthew 23:9
And go into great detail about how it means something else.
The Pope as Holy Father is not in contrast to this verse.

But the Rock /rock referred to in the OT is pointing to Jesus,
has no relationship to Matthew 16:18
But 16:18 can only be taken literally, and the fullness of Jesus authority on earth is found in the first Father of the Church, Peter.

So now you If Im reading right you belittle the apparent source Protestants, when the tread starter was concerned that his/her Catholic family are the ones that have drawn attention to this verse.

I find it hard to get my head around such things from a logical perspective. Will the connection to Protestants help to shake or answer this question?

Its just an observation and fascinating at the same time.
 
Both have been explained in great detail on these forums. You might understand them better if you would put aside your prejudice and do an honest bible study.
 
ricko said:
Both have been explained in great detail on these forums. You might understand them better if you would put aside your prejudice and do an honest bible study.
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Are you referring to me?
If so just what dont I understand?
How am I prejudice?
Or are you just angry, why are you angry with me?

You dont see the contrast in the handling of these 2 verse?
 
If one believes he can call a priest “father,” really, there’s no issue at adding “holy” to that. God has “sanctified” (i.e., made holy) those who have been baptized (1 Cor. 6:11); thus, they are worthy to be called “holy” (1 Cor. 3:16-17). Indeed, Paul most often addresses the Christians to whom he writes as “holy ones” (Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2). And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, Christian clergy, in particular, are called to their ministries because they are “holy” (Tit. 1:8). In view of all these factors, addressing a Christian minister as “holy” is entirely appropriate.

The key, again, is intent. If you use the title to replace God with the pope, it is sinful, naturally. If you are simply recognizing the fact that the pope is a spiritual father to Christians, and holds a holy office, then you glorify God when you respect him.
 
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