Call no man "father"

[GKC]

I suppose we could get into a debate over whether there are any male ones, either - can a Bishop who ordains female “priests” have the correct intent when ordaining a male, either?

No debate here, the answer is “No”. Female “ordination” is the black hole at the heart of Anglicanism that will eventually eat away at the contention that it is a part of Catholicism.

Okay. I’ll try that and see what results from it.

Good luck. I try to speak with such as rarely as possible

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[PaulDupre]

I’ve always thought that Jesus was echoing the teaching of John the Baptist in Matt 3:7-9 when he chastised the prideful Pharisees who thought they were secure in their salvation simply because they were descended from Abraham:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

In context, Jesus in Matthew 23 was addressing the same pride of the Pharisees, criticizing the way they showed off to garner praise and lorded their authority over others. Jesus, like John, attacked their fundamental flaw which was thinking their descent from “Father Abraham” was sufficient to guarantee God’s favor. Jesus pointed out that everyone has only one true Father - God the Father.

It is obvious that he did not mean to outlaw use of the word “father”, for He Himself used it when quoting the commandments to the rich young man:

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Libertas]

I’ve always thought that Jesus was echoing the teaching of John the Baptist in Matt 3:7-9 when he chastised the prideful Pharisees who thought they were secure in their salvation simply because they were descended from Abraham:

In context, Jesus in Matthew 23 was addressing the same pride of the Pharisees, criticizing the way they showed off to garner praise and lorded their authority over others. Jesus, like John, attacked their fundamental flaw which was thinking their descent from “Father Abraham” was sufficient to guarantee God’s favor. Jesus pointed out that everyone has only one true Father - God the Father.

It is obvious that he did not mean to outlaw use of the word “father”, for He Himself used it when quoting the commandments to the rich young man:

God bless,
Paul

Excellent post, Jesus also says not to call any man “teacher”. Obviously Jesus was not being strictly literal, as Pastor means teacher so Protestants would break that as well, otherwise that would just be absurd.

 

[Hastrman]

Excellent post, Jesus also says not to call any man “teacher”. Obviously Jesus was not being strictly literal, as Pastor means teacher so Protestants would break that as well, otherwise that would just be absurd.

Except Pastor means shepherd. Related to Pasture (and the surname Pasteur, actually).

 

[Montalban]

What is the non-Catholic understanding of this teaching?

What do you call your dad?

 

[jmcrae]

Good luck. I try to speak with such as rarely as possible.

In my case, it’s part of our Bishop’s madate on ecumenical relations - we have a “partner church” and its leader is a female Anglican priest.

I trust that the Bishop has a much better idea than I what good can come from this, and I “do whatever he tells me to do.” So far, so good.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Could you point me to some bible verses that show that peter was referred to as father? Not flaming just want to add them to my list of apologetics verses.

This might the one you’re refering too-- I am aware of Paul’s discorse on the subject in Corintheans but not really of any other.

thanks
sup

There’s at least one that I know of in 1 Corinthians 4:15…

Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

I’ll look later to see if I can find more.

 

[GKC]

In my case, it’s part of our Bishop’s madate on ecumenical relations - we have a “partner church” and its leader is a female Anglican priest.

I trust that the Bishop has a much better idea than I what good can come from this, and I “do whatever he tells me to do.” So far, so good.

Oh, dear.

Again, I wish you luck. In the final analysis, you’re dealing with a protestant pastor. What can be the harm, after all.

I’d love to see such a relationship with a RC parish and a Traditional Continuing Anglican one.

GKC

 

[Chris_LaRock]

What about our biological or adoptive fathers? What are they supposed to be called by Protestants?

‘Dad’, or ‘Step Dad’ I’m assuming.

 

[st_lucy]

‘Dad’, or ‘Step Dad’ I’m assuming.

Well, isn’t that the same as father?

 

[Chris_LaRock]

‘Dad’ could be in relation to an earthly human parent. ‘Father’ could refer to the Heavenly creator.

 

[st_lucy]

‘Dad’ could be in relation to an earthly human parent. ‘Father’ could refer to the Heavenly creator.

So are you saying that any man who calls his “dad” father is committing a grieve sin.

That seems rather presumptuious doesn’t it?

 

[PaulDupre]

Let’s remember that Jesus was not speaking English.

 

[djrakowski]

Some Episcopal priests claim that title and some don’t. In my personal experience, which may or may not be representative, most don’t.

In my experience as a former Episcopalian, all male priests went by the title of ‘Father.’ Could it be a regional thing?

 

[rr1213]

In my experience as a former Episcopalian, all male priests went by the title of ‘Father.’ Could it be a regional thing?

Very well could be. I come from an evangelical low Episcopal Church and of the four or five priests I’ve known, only one asked to be called “father” and I suspect that at least a few would have been uncomfortable with the title. In speaking directly to these folks we would normally call them by their first names. In speaking about them, we would call them by their first names or their function, i.e., “our priest” or “our rector”.

 

[jonfan]

Paul had no problem with calling other people father.

Romans 9:10. And not only she. But when Rebecca also had conceived at once of Isaac our father.

 

[Sixtus]

Call no man “father”
QUOTE]

Other texts say ‘call no man teacher’!

But we know that someone by profession of being qualified to instruct another name is: ‘teacher’. So we must not say ‘teacher’ but it is ok to say lecturer, Instructor or tutor. But tutors tutor small groups, teachers teach large ones’ So perhaps the Lord is telling us something about classroom sizes

Of course, He means nothing of the sort. My understanding is that we have 'one creator God whom we are through Jesus Christ co-children and right to call HIm Father. Perhaps the orginal text said: ‘call no man God the Father’. I speculate.

The Aramaic language the Lord would have used, father translates in English to ‘Daddy’. So call no man Daddy. So we are ok to say ‘father’ but not ‘daddy’ so clearly the Lord is teaching something else here.

 

[jmcrae]

‘Dad’ could be in relation to an earthly human parent. ‘Father’ could refer to the Heavenly creator.

Of course, all of those words could equally be translated by the word used by Christ as “father” (Abba) - which actually means “Daddy.”

Inventing a new word that means “father” doesn’t actually solve the problem, since it wasn’t the syllable sounds “fa”- “ther” that Jesus apparently condemned - it was the meaning behind them. Because we seriously hamper our ability to communicate by dropping that meaning out of our language altogether, we can see right away that Jesus could not have been speaking in a literal sense, but rather, was using hyperbole to make a point - that God is the only Father who is not also a son; that God is the only Teacher who is not also a student; that God is the only Master who is not also a slave or servant; the only King who is not also a subject, etc.

The rest of us might be called by any of these names, but if we are, then we must have the humility to realize that these titles come to us in spite of our weaknesses, rather than because of our strengths, and that our true model is God.

 

[believers]

What is the non-Catholic understanding of this teaching?

isn’t it obvious? It refers to (for a lack of a better word) “religious” matters.

Mat 23:1
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mat 23:2
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:

Mat 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Mat 23:4
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men’s shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 23:5
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Mat 23:6
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

Mat 23:7
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

Mat 23:8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Mat 23:9
And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Call no man “father”
QUOTE]