Call to the hair shirt

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I’ve been getting the sense of the holy spirit wanting me to take up the hair shirt so two questions 1) where can I get one or will I have to make it myself? and 2) if I enter into holy orders will I be allowed to use the hair shirt, i’m considering the jesuits what is their position on it?
 
I’ve been getting the sense of the holy spirit wanting me to take up the hair shirt so two questions 1) where can I get one or will I have to make it myself? and 2) if I enter into holy orders will I be allowed to use the hair shirt, i’m considering the jesuits what is their position on it?
I have no idea where you can get one. It’s not a common garment today. As to wearing one as a religious, most religious orders and religious congregations forbid all kinds of bodily mortifications as is a hair shirt, the discipline and other forms of corporal penances except for fasting and abstinence.

You must also keep in mind that the Jesuits are not mendicants or monks. They are clerks regular. Clerks have never had these traditions of corporal penances. Other than sleeping on very hard beds or such simple things that do not harm the body, any form of corporal penance that can cause harm to the health of the individual are forbidden, not only to religious, but to all Catholics. The object of penance is conversion from sin, not cause harm to the body or jeopardize the health of the person.

I would suggest that you increase your prayer time, additional fasts and abstinence and great works of charity.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The best religious orders encourage bodily mortification, despite the apostasies and degradation of today.

I suggest searching google, or making/buying your own. 🙂

You may well find it an extremely spiritually rewarding practice. Bodily mortification generally is, especially in these times where many graces await those who take up what others have failed in. I highly encourage and recommend it. 🙂 It is the practice of the saints.

St. Francis of Assisi wore a hair shirt throughout his life, as did St. Ignatius of Loyola and most if not all of the founders of the basic religious orders. If their orders have gone astray – that is the signs of the times, there are also returns to strict observance that occur to fix these problems.
 
The best religious orders encourage bodily mortification, despite the apostasies and degradation of today.

I suggest searching google, or making/buying your own. 🙂

You may well find it an extremely spiritually rewarding practice. Bodily mortification generally is, especially in these times where many graces await those who take up what others have failed in. I highly encourage and recommend it. 🙂 It is the practice of the saints.

St. Francis of Assisi wore a hair shirt throughout his life, as did St. Ignatius of Loyola and most if not all of the founders of the basic religious orders. If their orders have gone astray – that is the signs of the times, there are also returns to strict observance that occur to fix these problems.
We cannot encourage people to disobey, especially if they are religious. Obedience is the highest and most noble form of penance for any religious. Even during Francis’ time, the hair shirt was a individual practice that had to be approved by the Guardian of the community and it was only approved on a case by case basis, not as a general rule. The Rule of St. Francis is very clear that the penance of the brothers is to live in obedience, to be poor, to fast, abstain, to pray and to engage and great works of charity. There is no mention of any other corporal penances.

At the General Chapter of the Friars in 2000 Pope John Paul II reminded the friars that a return to tradition must be prudential. This excluded all forms of corporal penances that could compromise the health and well-being of the friars. Therefore, a friar may never wear a hairshirt or use the discipline without the permission of his Guardian. Even his confessor and his spiritual director do not have the authority to grant this permission.

We must be very careful. Never advise someone to act contrary to obedience. Always advise those who aspire to the religious life to act according to obedience, for there is no greater viture in a religious than obedience ot his superior. There is no greater penance either, than to subject your will to that of another.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I think St. John of the Cross is the example we have today, amongst other for what needs to be done in the religious orders.

His imprisonment and his escape. 🙂

And the reforms implemented. 🙂

Did St. John of the Cross break obedience by escaping his cell? What do we do when a religious order teaches lack of virtues, and obedience to this as a virtue?

Did he find a hierarchy of obedience that was greater?

What is the highest virtue? What determines whether one will enter or not? Leave or not?

Many factors are involved that have to be balanced out to determine the path. 🙂 Listening to **all **of the words of the original founders will provide the key.

I know of one founder who cursed his order to destruction if it ever broke from the charism he originally established for it… and indeed it is dwindling and disappearing. Obediently to what it has been told to do from above, which is, break that charism.

But obedience is a different subject truly. It is a great virtue, engaged in properly. This is about a person who has not yet entered an order.

Some of what he reads here, I pray will help in choosing one and learning what he has to do and does not have to do if he chooses a particular one.

One of the things that I myself often consider is what would happen to me, if I entered an order where obedience meant obedience to be instructed to not do good things. There is a point where that goes too far, the order is too corrupt, obedience is not the only factor nor the only key. Obedience to too much laxity will destroy a soul too, become cooperation with evil. Not only doing things can be sins, but lack of doing things.

Bodily mortification… is there a saint who did not practice it? I don’t know of any, perhaps a last minute martyr… where the pains of it were that after all. So… none.
 
I think St. John of the Cross is the example we have today, amongst other for what needs to be done in the religious orders.

His imprisonment and his escape. 🙂

And the reforms implemented. 🙂

Did St. John of the Cross break obedience by escaping his cell? What do we do when a religious order teaches lack of virtues, and obedience to this as a virtue?

Did he find a hierarchy of obedience that was greater?

[SNIP]

One of the things that I myself often consider is what would happen to me, if I entered an order where obedience meant obedience to be instructed to not do good things. There is a point where that goes too far, the order is too corrupt, obedience is not the only factor nor the only key. Obedience to too much laxity will destroy a soul too, become cooperation with evil. Not only doing things can be sins, but lack of doing things.

Bodily mortification… is there a saint who did not practice it? I don’t know of any, perhaps a last minute martyr… where the pains of it were that after all. So… none.
First of all, St. John of the Cross’ case is very unique, because he was unjustly imprisoned. He had been given permission to go forward with the reform. His Provincial Superior had authorized it. Therefore, the friars who imprisoned him were transgressing against a permission that had been granted by an higher authority. John had every righ to run away.

Second, no religious founder has the auhority to damn his religious community to perdition. The Church’s law is very clear. The moment that the founder is no longer the superior, he no longer has jurisdiction over the members of his order. Therefore, it is not disobedience to follow the canonical superiors of the order or congregation. If their directives are approved by the Church and the Chatper, they carry the weight of obedience and must be obeyed.

Third, the fact that a religious superior does not allow you to do something that you consider to be good, does not mean that you have a license to do something that is wrong. A perfect example of this is Mother Teresa of Calcutta. How long did she wait for permission to go into the streets of Calcutta? Christ has asked her to do this. But the Church and her religious community denied the permission and asked her to wait. She submitted to their authority and waited. For a while it looked like it was not going to happen. Eventually it did.

The same happened with Saint Faustina. Christ asked her to foiund a congregation. But the Church and her superiors declined the permission. This was the making of her holiness. She obeyed. She reamained where she was and achieved great holiness.

Our own Padre Pio was ordered not to celebrate mass in public. He obeyed. When he was asked he would always respond with the words, “Obedience, obedience, obedience.” He was a faithful son of St. Francis. He obeyed even when it hurt.

Your concern about how much you can obey, speaking for yourself, the answer is simple. You never obey when you are asked to sin. That’s not even disobedience, because such an order is not legitimate. However, when the superior asks you for something legitimate then you are bound to obey. This was one point on which our holy Father Francis was very clear. He always said that we must obey, even when the superior was wrong, as long as the superior did not command sin. He made it a point to admonish the brothers that such obedience was not only pleasing to God, but also pleasing to man. In perfect charity one must please both. Of course, if you can’t please both, then you please God.

There are no degrees to obedience. Obedience is what it is. You surrender your will to your superior and to your brothers in chapter.

The poster asked if the Jesuits would allow him to wear a harishirt. My answer is very accurate. The Society of Jesus are Clerks Regular. This type of penance is not part of their tradition. It’s not in their statutes nor did St. Ignatius expect this of them. Therefore, it is at the discretion of the superior.

The same is true of the Franciscan family. We have never had this type of penitential practice. We have had individuals who practiced this kind of penance, but always with the permission of their major superior or at the very least the local Guardian. Even Thomas More, who did wear a hair shirt under his Franciscan habit, did so with the permission of his local minister. He wore three layers of clothing. He wore a hairshirt, the Franciscan habit and his secular clothes on top. But always with the permission of the superior. This has been the practice of the Franciscan order for 800 years. We do nothing like this without the permission of the local superior. None of the Franciscan branches have this practice as a general rule. The general practice is that penance is a constant conversion from sin toward the perfection of charity.

I don’t think that anyone would say that the Society of Jesus or the Franciscan Order is apostate or heretical. This does not deny that there are some lose canons among us. But when you have a family as large as these two families are, there are bound to be lose canons. As a whole, both of these families have been very faithful sons and daughters of the Church.

At our last chapter, April 2009, 1300 delegates representing the 1.7 million Franciscans in the world gathered for the celbration of our 800th anniversay. The one thing that Pope Benedict XVI said was, “Your Franciscan family has proven itself to be faithful and obedient sons and daughters of the Church.” Even withthout hairshirts or other corporal penances, fidelity to the Church is not compromised.

If the OP is thinking about entering the Society of Jesus, he will have to conform to their practice of penance, whatever that may be. Otherwise, why enter?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’ve been getting the sense of the holy spirit wanting me to take up the hair shirt so two questions 1) where can I get one or will I have to make it myself? and 2) if I enter into holy orders will I be allowed to use the hair shirt, i’m considering the jesuits what is their position on it?
JTPK1616:

I would really listen to JR on this - He’s the one who’s taken the vows of Chastity, Obedience & Poverty. He’s the one who has to live with his “Hair shirts” day in and and day out, who has to eat with them, pray & recreate with them, work with them and try to build a community with them. Shin must think it’s all sweetness and light, and that everybody’s always nice and agreeable when they live in community. I lived in a Christian community back in the early 1980’s, and, from that limited experience, nothing could be further from the truth.

If you really believe the Holy Spirit wants you to wear a “hair shirt” try these (Most of these are standard for any Male under the age of 35):
  1. Don’t complain or gossip at work,
  2. Don’t listen to gossip at work or elsewhere,
  3. Do a Full Day’s Work for a Full Day’s Pay,
  4. Don’t steal from your employer or your fellow employees.
  5. Obey the traffic laws, including the speed limits & red-lights,
  6. Yield the “Right of Way” esp. when you’re sure you’re right,
  7. Use the horn less often - Remember, the poor guy in front of you may have missed a shift - Hoking at him will only make it worse,
  8. Try to give the disabled, or others who are less fortunate than you are, a break - Try to make their lives easier, not harder…,
  9. Don’t objectivize women (Throw away the pornography & look at their faces instead of where men tend to look…),
  10. If you don’t TIP, Start - Waiters have to eat, too - And, Tip 15-20% esp. when NO ONE is looking…,
  11. If you don’t, Start saying “Thank you” & “Please”, “Ma’am” & “Sir”. We live in a COURSE society - Make the part around you a little nicer and a little kinder.
  12. Don’t start a fight or get involved in one if there is any way to avoid it and if your life or that of an innocent person is not endangered.
  13. Get a Spiritual Director and follow his direction,
  14. Get involved in a Discipleship Program if your Parish has one,
  15. Get involved in a regular Catholic prayer group - Bible Study Group - Many Groups do Lectio Divina which is a good spiritual practice…
  16. Attend Daily Mass if you aren’t, if it’s at all possible.
I see you’ve been walking with the Lord for less than 3 years, and I suspect the above list will be daunting enough - That, once your Spiritual Director adapts it to you and your needs, it will be plenty of “Penance” and “Discipline” - That this will supply plenty of “irritation”.

I hope this helps - Please heed the advice of Brother JR. Unlike most of us, he knows what he’s talking about from experience…

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
 
I realize that not all of us have the same challenges. Speaking for me, I would prefer a hairshirt than having to bow to the voice of obedience all the time.
  1. I was married and had three children. In 1993 there was a car accident. My wife, father and three children were in the car. My wife, father and one son were killed. I was a widower at 35 with a 9-year old daughter and a 4-year old son.
  2. Three months after the accident my 4-year old son was diagnosed with autism.
  3. A year after the accident I had to sell my home to pay for my son’s medical bills, because he ran out of insurance.
  4. After they grew up I entered religious life and went back to school, even though I alread had a PhD in psychology. I was ordered to go for a doctorate in Sacred Theology. I spent seven more years in school, three of them in Rome, away from family, friends, and anything that was familiar.
  5. I have had wonderful religious superiors. All of them very holy men. But holiness does not equate to bright. Some were not the brightest colors in the crayon box.
  6. This past August I was diagnosed with cancer and was told that I could no longer run the school that I had ran for six-years, a school for disabled children.
  7. I was appointed novice master for my community, not my choice. I believe that others can be better formators than I can ever be.
  8. Now I have been asked to lead the Respect Life education office for our diocese, not my choice. I believe that others have much more experience and knowledge.
  9. I was reassigned to a community with two other brothers who are great guys to live with. But I missed my former community for the first three months.
  10. I have been appointed spiritual director to a community of Secular Franciscans, not my choice. Again, I believe others have a much richer spiritual life than I do.
All of these and many more are examples of what one often has to offer to God as gift, under obedience to God’s will in our lives, without questioning, without murmuring or second-guessing, total obedience as Christ obeyed.

We can often grow in love of God and neighbor and get closer to perfect charity through obedience. But we must ask for the gift of love. Obedience is about loving, not about wisdom.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’ve been getting the sense of the holy spirit wanting me to take up the hair shirt so two questions 1) where can I get one or will I have to make it myself? and 2) if I enter into holy orders will I be allowed to use the hair shirt, i’m considering the jesuits what is their position on it?
Have you spoken to your spiritual director about this?
 
I realize that not all of us have the same challenges. Speaking for me, I would prefer a hairshirt than having to bow to the voice of obedience all the time.
  1. I was married and had three children. In 1993 there was a car accident. My wife, father and three children were in the car. My wife, father and one son were killed. I was a widower at 35 with a 9-year old daughter and a 4-year old son.
  2. Three months after the accident my 4-year old son was diagnosed with autism.
  3. A year after the accident I had to sell my home to pay for my son’s medical bills, because he ran out of insurance.
  4. After they grew up I entered religious life and went back to school, even though I alread had a PhD in psychology. I was ordered to go for a doctorate in Sacred Theology. I spent seven more years in school, three of them in Rome, away from family, friends, and anything that was familiar.
  5. I have had wonderful religious superiors. All of them very holy men. But holiness does not equate to bright. Some were not the brightest colors in the crayon box.
  6. This past August I was diagnosed with cancer and was told that I could no longer run the school that I had ran for six-years, a school for disabled children.
  7. I was appointed novice master for my community, not my choice. I believe that others can be better formators than I can ever be.
  8. Now I have been asked to lead the Respect Life education office for our diocese, not my choice. I believe that others have much more experience and knowledge.
  9. I was reassigned to a community with two other brothers who are great guys to live with. But I missed my former community for the first three months.
  10. I have been appointed spiritual director to a community of Secular Franciscans, not my choice. Again, I believe others have a much richer spiritual life than I do.
All of these and many more are examples of what one often has to offer to God as gift, under obedience to God’s will in our lives, without questioning, without murmuring or second-guessing, total obedience as Christ obeyed.

We can often grow in love of God and neighbor and get closer to perfect charity through obedience. But we must ask for the gift of love. Obedience is about loving, not about wisdom.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
You post reminds me of chapter 68 in the Rule of St. Benedict. Basically it is about the assignment of impossible tasks. That there are things we may be asked to do out of obedience that seem impossible for us to achieve. Yet we have to obey our superiors and trust that God may be calling us to go beyond what we think we can do, to stretch ourselves, to grow in ways we might not have thought possible. The impossible becomes the possible, with God.
 
You post reminds me of chapter 68 in the Rule of St. Benedict. Basically it is about the assignment of impossible tasks. That there are things we may be asked to do out of obedience that seem impossible for us to achieve. Yet we have to obey our superiors and trust that God may be calling us to go beyond what we think we can do, to stretch ourselves, to grow in ways we might not have thought possible. The impossible becomes the possible, with God.
This is the most sublime and most difficult penance, to allow God to achieve through us, even when we feel that it’s impossible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Brothers and sisters,

what is hair shirt? sorry but I am learning every day on CAF. I thank God for CAF.

Peace and Love
odopa
 
Brothers and sisters,

what is hair shirt? sorry but I am learning every day on CAF. I thank God for CAF.

Peace and Love
odopa
the hair shirt is a shirt made out of hair usaly goat hair or sack cloth which worn against the skin makes one very itchy. it is used to diapline oneself in thought and as a reminder not to sin. the only people i know of today who wear one is the camalodose. it is a form of mortifacation like fasting but does not really do any bodily harm unless one is allergic to the material. it sound like great fun and have been thinking of taking it up to keep me motivated. but that is just me i’m the kind of guy who thinks saint simeon the stylite’s way of life is worth considering., mostly becuse I have one of those extremist personalitys and have a need to push things to the extrem. as an example years ago before my baptism I was heavy in to drugs 5 grams of magik mushroons is considered a heavy dose but me I needed insanity more so I took 14 (not very smart I know [it resulted in both the best thing to ever happen to me and the worst but that is a long story] been mostly sober since. drink and smoke pot every other month) the hair shirt has been used for thoulsands of years.
 
the hair shirt is a shirt made out of hair usaly goat hair or sack cloth which worn against the skin makes one very itchy. it is used to diapline oneself in thought and as a reminder not to sin. the only people i know of today who wear one is the camalodose. it is a form of mortifacation like fasting but does not really do any bodily harm unless one is allergic to the material. it sound like great fun and have been thinking of taking it up to keep me motivated. but that is just me i’m the kind of guy who thinks saint simeon the stylite’s way of life is worth considering., mostly becuse I have one of those extremist personalitys and have a need to push things to the extrem. as an example years ago before my baptism I was heavy in to drugs 5 grams of magik mushroons is considered a heavy dose but me I needed insanity more so I took 14 (not very smart I know [it resulted in both the best thing to ever happen to me and the worst but that is a long story] been mostly sober since. drink and smoke pot every other month) the hair shirt has been used for thoulsands of years.
I will ask you again, have you spoken to your spiritual director about this?

No severe bodily mortifications (even strict long term fasting) should be undertaken without a spiritual director.

Are you doing this for the right reasons, The spiritual director will make sure that is not being done out of some sort of Spiritual Hubris.
 
Bodily mortification… is there a saint who did not practice it? I don’t know of any, perhaps a last minute martyr… where the pains of it were that after all. So… none.
St John Bosco springs to mind - when the young St Dominic Savio wanted to put stones in his bed because he wanted to be a saint, Don Bosco stopped him and told him the saints were known for their joy.

I don’t know who the original poster is, but if you want to undertake corporal penance like a hairshirt, do so ONLY under the direction of a spiritual director. If you don’t even have a spiritual director yet, you’re not advanced enough to make use of a penance like the hairshirt. I’m not advanced enough either.
 
Try getting married and having children. Those experiences will provide you with the penance of a thousand hairshirts! …and under the best of circumstances.
 
Before we go into any extraordinary mortification, we must make sure that we are complying with the ordinary forms of penance that are required for our state in life. For the lay person that would be fasting and abstinence on the required days, daily prayer, charity in all things, fidelity to one’s state in life, active support of one’s parish and diocese, Christian engagement in civic affairs, family life and frequent reception of the sacraments. For religious there are other penances that come with that life as directed by the holy rule, the constitutioins or the chapter. These are superimposed on the same penances that the laity observe.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
this is slightly off topic but I have read Pope Paul VI wore a hair shirt

I think people really didn’t understand what a holy soul her was, they just knew he wasn’t Pope John 23 and he got compared so many times unfavorable by many

He had a terrible task to do as far as I am concerned…I would never have wanted to implement Vatican II’s changes

I am far too worldly to ever even think of wearing such a painful sounding garment…
 
Hello

I do know where to buy hairshirts and other forms of corporal penances but I do not believe I would be doing you any good whatsoever by suggesting where you can buy them.
From some of your post I do not know if this is some sort of windup or not .

but me I needed insanity more , drink and smoke pot every other month , it sounds like great fun .

Corporal penances are not supposed to be great fun. I agree that you should seek out a good spiritual director and work from there.

Yours In Christ
Chris
 
Brothers and sisters,

what is hair shirt? sorry but I am learning every day on CAF. I thank God for CAF.

Peace and Love
odopa
odapa- At first I thought maybe it meant this (lol) 😃

outhouserag.typepad.com/outhouserag/2008/02/chest-hair-shir.html

I found out it is this:

cilice.co.uk/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice

ww.newadvent.org/cathen/07113b.htm

jpk1313- I would strongly suggest you listen to Brother Jr and Brother ByzCath since they are in religious orders themselves. Don’t forget to Pray and talk to your parish Priest.

God bless,
goforgoal
 
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