Calling All Aetheists

[Damascus]

Israel Shahak was brought up in the Warsaw Ghetto and was a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. He arrived in Palestine in 1945 and lived there until his passing in 2001.

Prior to his passing, he co-authored another book which was later published in 2004, so he seems to have held these same views til the day he died.

I am going to buy these books.

Are there any more like it that are credible like this man? This is amazing and a real eye opener.

Thank you so much for mentioning it. Did he have any political aspirations that you are aware of? Or was he just fed up with the direction things were going?

Reading this makes me not surprised that there are so many Atheists.
How can this be?

 

[ThisOne]

A couple of comments:

• There are a lot of kooky Orthodox groups in Judaism in Israel that twist the ancient faith into unrecognizable form. There are some in the US, too.
• Apropos of the earlier discussion, my mother used to say, “I am not even an atheist.”

 

[Damascus]

A couple of comments:

• There are a lot of kooky Orthodox groups in Judaism in Israel that twist the ancient faith into unrecognizable form. There are some in the US, too.
• Apropos of the earlier discussion, my mother used to say, “I am not even an atheist.”

Mr Ex Nihilo made it clear as a bell that is was radical Zionists!

He never implied anything else. At least that is what I read.

Sorry about your mom BTW.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I am going to buy these books.

Are there any more like it that are credible like this man? This is amazing and a real eye opener.

These were some of the things I was trying to talk to you about before Damascus.

I tried to mention the case of Nicola Ghattas in Beit Sahour to you before. I’m not sure if he’s still alive today. But back in 1989 he had all his possession taken from him by the Israeli government when these people protested the extremely, poor, sanitary conditions in the area. Eventutally, after 56 days, the town capitulated-- but their possessions were never returned to them to my knowledge.

Damascus:

Thank you so much for mentioning it. Did he have any political aspirations that you are aware of? Or was he just fed up with the direction things were going?

As far as I can tell, he was just an honest human rights campaigner-- though, based on Valke2’s claims, it’s been claimed that he wasn’t that honest. I can’t actually verify what Shahak claims. But I’ve seen no reason to question him to date.

Based on his religion and background, his intentions do not seem to be tainted with any hint of anti-semitism as far as I can tell-- although Valke2 is right that many anti-semites jump on Shahak’s words without questioning them.

I tend to think that one has to be very careful with Shahak’s words. Many people have taken them and dishonestly distorted them well past what Shahak himself actually claimed.

Damascus:

Reading this makes me not surprised that there are so many Atheists.

How can this be?

I certainly don’t think the behaviors of Israel speak for all of Judiasm. The behaviors I’ve mentioned do not even speak for Israel itself, since there are many Orthodox and Reform Jews within Israel that are indeed speaking out against these radical Zionistic actions against non-Jews.

This isn’t about Judiasm. This is about radical Zionism – the radical fundamentalists of Judiasm – something which many Jews of all persuasions believe is antithetical to Judaism itself. These radical Zionists are the kind of fundamentalists which think no differently from the radical Jihadist Muslims, the only difference being these Jewish fundamentalists beleive it’s “Jew versus everybody else” instead of it being “Muslim versus everybody else”.

I’m sure there’s equivalents within Christianity too, such as the KKK for example. These radical hate-filled groups totally warp people’s perceptions of religion and lead many people to atheism in my opinion.

 

[kellie]

I just found this on the web and was interested in all of your comments

*Atheism is the acceptance that there is no credible scientific or factually reliable evidence for the existence of a god, gods, or the supernatural. *
atheistfoundation.org.au/index.htm

 

[Damascus]

These were some of the things I was trying to talk to you about before Damascus.
*Well, you got my attention now. Better late than never!*I’m sure there’s equivalents within Christianity too, such as the KKK for example. These radical hate-filled groups totally warp people’s perceptions of religion and lead many people to atheism in my opinion.

Why do people keep calling the KKK Christian? How do we know if there are atheist, deist, or other KKK? What church are they official members of? Can you be assured of an accurate response to that?
And if you presume to know that answer, Do you realize that they may name it yet that does not make a valid claim “it”.
They can not be Christian simply based on the obvious.
They are not members of my Church, so I ask- what “church” do they ALL belong to that is “Christian”?
Tell me.
Dont tell me they are “radical” Christians. Thats absurd. Tie them in with some heretical schismatic sect and in unity of belief.
Please. You seem to know everything.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Why do people keep calling the KKK Christian? How do we know if there are atheist, deist, or other KKK? What church are they official members of? Can you be assured of an accurate response to that?
And if you presume to know that answer, Do you realize that they may name it yet that does not make a valid claim “it”.
They can not be Christian simply based on the obvious.
They are not members of my Church, so I ask- what “church” do they ALL belong to that is “Christian”?
Tell me.
Dont tell me they are “radical” Christians. Thats absurd. Tie them in with some heretical schismatic sect and in unity of belief.
Please. You seem to know everything.

What did I do now?

Me personally? I don’t think the KKK is authentically Christian. But the KKK does claim to be Christian. At least, many within this group seem to claim to be.

I don’t know if they are tied to any specific denomination. But I know they don’t like Catholics very much. Then again, they don’t like Jews either. Actually, I don’t think they like anybody, including themselves.

And since they regularly condemn all of God’s people (who were all created in God’s image), and since they specifically blaspheme God in their own own doctrines, I’d quite happily point out that the KKK are clearly dangerous apostates who are nearly anti-Christian in the truest sense of the word.

I’ll have no part of their racist claims against Catholics and Jews.

If you want more information on them, here you go…

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/KKK.html
adl.org/learn/ext_us/KKK.asp?xpicked=4&item=18
rickross.com/reference/kkk/kkk38.html

I find the KKK to be a bigotted and disgusting blasphemy against Chirstianity-- especially against our Catholic faith. Nonetheless, many of them claim to be Christian-- and when we allow them to publically march, we are allowing these bigots to present a distorted image of Christianity to the world.

Consequently, I do think that some people do become atheists when they are deceived by these anti-Christian KKK bigots. I don’t think I can make it any clearer than that.

 

[Valke2]

In fact Valke 2- I have no way of knowing if in fact it is an offical Torah.

It was in english and it had commentary on the bottom, several sections with illustrations and a dictionary in back much like a typical run of the mill bible.

Where can I get one anyway? Amazon?

Here’s a link to a Genises with lots of Commentary. It has a bit of a pro-Conservative, rather than pro-orthodox bent to it, as it discusses some things in the context of history/scholorship (i.e. when portions were written, the story of Cain and Able being borrowed from a prior story, etc.). I like this one but it may be more expensive because each book (Gen., Exodus, etc.) is seperate.

amazon.com/Bible-Commentary-Nahum-M-Sarna/dp/0827603266

Here’s a link to one that is more orthodox in its commentary. I think the translations of each text are close enough as to not warrant much comment. It is in the commentaries that they may differ.

amazon.com/Chumash-Stone-Artscroll-Nosson-Scherman/dp/0899060145

(you need to make room in your pm box.

 

[Damascus]

Here’s a link to a Genises with lots of Commentary. It has a bit of a pro-Conservative, rather than pro-orthodox bent to it, as it discusses some things in the context of history/scholorship (i.e. when portions were written, the story of Cain and Able being borrowed from a prior story, etc.). I like this one but it may be more expensive because each book (Gen., Exodus, etc.) is seperate.

amazon.com/Bible-Commentary-Nahum-M-Sarna/dp/0827603266

Here’s a link to one that is more orthodox in its commentary. I think the translations of each text are close enough as to not warrant much comment. It is in the commentaries that they may differ.

amazon.com/Chumash-Stone-Artscroll-Nosson-Scherman/dp/0899060145

(you need to make room in your pm box.

Thanks for the links, looks like I am going to have to take a loan out to buy all these books!

Anyway thanks for the heads up on my little problem. I was wondering why nobody loved me today

 

[Giovanni]

ATHEIST = PRIDE, and we all know what happened to a certain individual and a third of the celestial beings who followed him.

---

It is prayer and our love that will change hearts.

 

[Valke2]

I got the information from a reference to Shahak’s book. I even provided a link for you to examine it further if you wanted to.

I’d have to look at the report. I’m sure there was a lot of damage done to a lot of sites during the war. I saw no reference about book burning in the link you provided. I may have missed it.

There are more chirstmas lights in Israel than in most neighborhoods in the US that I’ve seen. I have a hard time believing that Christians freedom of religion is suffering there.

 

[Monarchy]

"
the atheist who knows not Jesus is a person who still hasn’t opened the door because he’s too busy he can’t hear the knocking.

I am an atheist, and I have my ear pressed firmly against that door, straining to hear even the slightest knock. I have yet to hear anything.

 

[Image_of_God]

I am an atheist, and I have my ear pressed firmly against that door, straining to hear even the slightest knock. I have yet to hear anything.

Perhaps you have heard nothing because of your unwillingness to hear anything?

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Image of God

Perhaps you have heard nothing because of your unwillingness to hear anything?

---

Good answer.

 

[Monarchy]

Perhaps you have heard nothing because of your unwillingness to hear anything?

Sir, I listen to aproximately an hour or two of religious programing A DAY. I have tried everything asked of by theists, prayer, open heart, etc, and I find nothing. I am searching for him, he doesn’t seem to want to be found.

But then I see the length people will go to for belief. I see people beliving shucksters like Peter Popoff. James Randi played a trick on the Austrailian Media with a Chaneler that he trained. After they showed that he was false the ‘chaneler’ stated that he still had people come up after the incident and state that they believed in him.

Now I do not state that God does not exist because that is unknowable, and therefore not logical. I simply want some proof. Not the “believe or else” stuff I get from x-ains.

 

[R_McGeddon]

Monarchy:

I am an atheist, and I have my ear pressed firmly against that door, straining to hear even the slightest knock. I have yet to hear anything.

Image of God:

Perhaps you have heard nothing because of your unwillingness to hear anything?

Terrible answer, having an ear pressed against a door doesn’t sound the slightest bit unwilling.

 

[Image_of_God]

Image of God

Perhaps you have heard nothing because of your unwillingness to hear anything?

---

Good answer.

Thank you.

Sir, I listen to aproximately an hour or two of religious programing A DAY. I have tried everything asked of by theists, prayer, open heart, etc, and I find nothing. I am searching for him, he doesn’t seem to want to be found.

Hmmm. I understand this situation. You do not always find God in religious programming but in the silence of the heart. You know that you can only find God with the help of the Spirit. Are you a teen that is having a hard time?
If so, you should retreat away at a designated time and read Scripture. Without the Spirit we can do nothing.
It is important for us all to know that experiencing God is NOT a feeling, but a cleansing of the mind.

But then I see the length people will go to for belief. I see people beliving shucksters like Peter Popoff. James Randi played a trick on the Austrailian Media with a Chaneler that he trained. After they showed that he was false the ‘chaneler’ stated that he still had people come up after the incident and state that they believed in him.

Are these perhaps Protestant Christians?

Now I do not state that God does not exist because that is unknowable, and therefore not logical. I simply want some proof. Not the “believe or else” stuff I get from x-ains.

Ok, then here is your proof.

We all know that God is love. We also know that love in itself cannot be study. We may be able to study the reactions of love and the expression of love. But we know that love comes from somewhere, is that not right.
A human comes from his mother’s womb, speech comes from the mouth, color comes from light, etc. But where does love come from? Science can never answer this question. Yet everyone is in need of it, am I not right?
What moves someone to love someone else?
What sets love in motion?
Why in fact does everyone need this thing called love?

Now this might sound “cheesy” to you, but as Christians we believe that the bases of God’s nature is love. We were created out of love and his very proof of existence is in love.

Here is something else:
newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm

St. Thomas Aquinas, if you have not already read him is a highly admired doctor.

 

[Image_of_God]

Terrible answer, having an ear pressed against a door doesn’t sound the slightest bit unwilling.

Actually, no it doesn’t. It sounds so filled with anxiety and unpeaceful curiousity that nothing could be possibly heard.

Firstly, perhaps the knock is so soft that maybe God is just asking Monarchy to turn inside and he would find him.

Now, I am not smart, but I will quote this:

Luke 11:9
So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you, search and you will find; knock and the door will be opended for you. For everyone who asks recieves, and for everyone who search finds and for everyone who knocks the door will be opened.

Notice, how the section I pulled this from out of looks gospel is called Perseverance in Prayer.

Here is another quote:
James 1:5
If any of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God, who gives all generously and ungrudging, and it will be given you. But ask in faith, never doubting, for the one who doubs is like a wave in the sea, driven and tossed by the wind; for the doubter, being double-minded and unstable in everyway, must not expect to recieve anything from the Lord.

Our brother, Monarchy is being tested. It implies an imperfection on his part that he would just despair like that. He, in other words, has the unwillingness to be patient with God. Not only is God found, but so are we. One must not lose hope, for in despairing we refuse to except the hope of the Lord.

 

[Image_of_God]

Monarchy, if you feel that it is better to PM me the you are always welcome to do so.

 

[whosebob]

I am an atheist, and I have my ear pressed firmly against that door, straining to hear even the slightest knock. I have yet to hear anything.

JMJ + OBT​

Here is what you do, and this will lead to your conversion if you choose to correspond with the graces that will be poured out upon you.

(1) Visit MassTimes.org, and enter your Zip Code or city, state. In the returned list of parishes, see if there is one reasonably close by to you that has scheduled Adoration – if so, then pick that one. If none of the parishes within, say, and hour’s driving distance have Adoration, then make your choice based on convenience, and perhaps based upon your review of the parishes’ websites.

(2) Use MapQuest or Google Maps to get directions from your residence to the parish you’ve chosen. If you’ve chosen one that has scheduled Adoration, then visit during that scheduled time. If your selected parish does not have Adoration, then visit at a time when you know the church building will be open (e.g. 7am - 7pm; you may need to call the parish office).

(3) If you arrive during scheduled Adoration, then figure out wherever it’s being held (probably in the main church, perhaps in a “day chapel”). If you’re not visiting during scheduled adoration, then figure out where the tabernacle is located in the church building (don’t be afraid to ask someone in the office; they’ll be cool about it) and go before it.

(4) Kneel down and offer a quiet vocal or silent mental prayer that goes something like this (even if you don’t yet believe in prayer, do this in some sort of explicit internal or external manner):

O Jesus of Nazareth, your followers in the Catholic Church believe that you continually dwell among us human beings as our Emmanuel – “God with us” – bodily present in your humanity and divinity, though hidden under the veil of a sacrament, the appearances of bread and wine. Here I kneel in the presence of this sacrament exposed in a monstrance [reserved in this tabernacle], not knowing whether this “Catholic truth” is true – whether your bodily presence is as real as mine in this room – whether you even exist at all. If you are here indeed, and if you now hear me with human ears as your followers tell me indeed you will, then I ask that your beating and sacred heart might, by grace, impress upon my mind and soul the love of God for humankind and for me personally. I ask, may it please you, that your mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary, might pray for me this instant and obtain for me the grace to know you, believe in you, trust you, and to begin to live in you, and you in me. O Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto thine.

Then rest there for a moment. Go on your way when you are ready, and be open to all that God may ask of you according to his twofold commandment: (1) to love Him with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; (2) and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

May Our Lord bless you and keep you.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA