Calling All Aetheists

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The Pslams cover a huge specturm of human emotion, longing and relationships.

Psalm one emphatically and expresssly states that happy is the one that studies Torah. It is the opening pslam and its first message is not about praising God, or a petition to God, or condeming those that do not believe in God. In fact, If I recall, it doesn’t mention God at all. It’s major theme is the centrality of Torah in the life of the individual. Can we conclude then, that all of Christanity is invalid as it does not embrace this?

Torah is revelation, God reaching out to man. Psalms are man reaching out to God. In Torah, the Decaloug opens with “I am the Lord your God” and ends with “Your Neighbor”. God to man, right? In Psalms the direction is reversed. They commence with “Happy is the one” and end with “praise the Lord”. Man to God. It seems to me that the only way Psalms make any sense is if we view them as the writings of man not the word of God. Otherwise, we are looking at God talking to Himself.

This doesn’t diminish the importance of the Psalms, IMO. IN fact, it is often of paramount importance that we have a means of expressing our desires, beliefs, anger, etc. to God. But the wisdom and power of Psalms come from the word of man, I think. Not God.
 
Valke2

But the wisdom and power of Psalms come from the word of man, I think. Not God.

Are you saying some books of the bible are inspired by God, but others are not? If so, what is the point of your saying it … to make out that “The fool in his heart says there is no God” is merely a human statement, rather than divinely inspired?

Are You looking for an “out” that isn’t there?

Your bio says N/A. Are you atheist? It would help to know where you are coming from, since you seem to speak with some kind of authority on Scripture that to me is somewhat doubtful.
 
Wow, this thread is sad and petty. I have scanned through most of it and I just want to clear up a few points.
  1. Atheism = a (without) theism (belief in a deity).
  2. Atheists have many different positive ethical, moral, and social beliefs. Just because a person has no religious belief, doesn’t mean they are a nihilist.
  3. Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else. There have been terrible atheists and there have been wonderful atheists. A person’s atheism doesn’t suggest that they are i particularly immoral or moral.
  4. I have many moments when I am thankful. If I am thankful for my life, I thank my parents for deciding to have me and for giving me every opportunity to find my place in the world. If I am thankful for my friends, I tell them how thankful I am for them being there for me. The list goes on and on.
  5. Evolution is just a theory …and so is gravity. Honestly people, its time to sit down and really look at the evidence. Non-functioning DNA sequences, vestigial features (body parts that are by-products of evolution that now serve no purpose such as body hair, appendex, tail bone, wisdom teeth ect), the fossil record and radiometric dating are all pretty difficult to explain from a creationist perspective.
  6. Atheist really is spelled “atheist” but I’m not going to resort to being an a**. My primary concern is with the content of ideas not petty spelling or grammar errors.
That just about hits on my main concerns about the misinformation floating around.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
Valke2

But the wisdom and power of Psalms come from the word of man, I think. Not God.

Are you saying some books of the bible are inspired by God, but others are not? If so, what is the point of your saying it … to make out that “The fool in his heart says there is no God” is merely a human statement, rather than divinely inspired?

Are You looking for an “out” that isn’t there?

Your bio says N/A. Are you atheist? It would help to know where you are coming from, since you seem to speak with some kind of authority on Scripture that to me is somewhat doubtful.
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I’m not looking for any “out.” Psalms are inspired by they are written by man. When the pslamist cries out “Why have you forsaken me?” Is that divinely inspired? How is one divinely inspired to cry out to God in anguish? My bio says N/A? I didn’t know that. I’m Jewish.
 
R_McGeddon said:
That’s a bit of a stretch, cancer can be visibly seen. Can anybody show me God?
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Can anyone show you dark matter?

Dark matter is matter that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation (such as light, X-rays and so on) to be detected directly, but whose presence may be inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter.

Among the observed phenomena consistent with the existence of dark matter are the rotational speeds of galaxies and orbital velocities of galaxies in clusters, gravitational lensing of background objects by galaxy clusters such as the Bullet cluster, and the temperature distribution of hot gas in galaxies and clusters of galaxies.

The composition of dark matter is unknown, but may include new elementary particles such as WIMPs and axions, ordinary and heavy neutrinos, dwarf stars and planets collectively called MACHOs, and clouds of nonluminous gas. Current evidence favors models in which the primary component of dark matter is new elementary particles, collectively called nonbaryonic dark matter.

All things being said, no one can actually prove it exists, yet most cosmological/mathematical theories posit that this must exist in order to account for many of the observations we see in the universe today. Consequently, when we come back to the question of God, we see a similar concept being expounded…
Romans 1:20:
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
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This is the most basic form of ‘seeing’ God and doesn’t even scratch the surface of God actually ‘visibly’ interacting with his creation as the Scriptures often mention. Even the pagans had concepts similar to this most basic concept in the form of the primitve sky gods found throughout the ancient world. When one starts to actually examine the Scriptural record in light of archeological discoveries over the centuries, it becomes even more evident that there is more going on here than people just ‘making stuff up’.
 
but there is a difference between events and explanations. We may be able to find the cross or the tablets someday (and verify it). That is evidence of the event. The explanation will remain, I think, a matter of faith.
 
nucatholic

Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else.

Well, since apparently you are one, that is to be an expected argument. The atheist, of course, does not recognize deicide as a direct crime against God, since he does not acknowledge God in the first place. But that doesn’t excuse him from the crime of all crimes, the crime that make all the other crimes more do-able just because one can decide on one’s own what is right and what is wrong. That’s moral relativism … and that’s evil and is largely what is wrong with the world today.

As an atheist you have your opinion, since it is not a fact, and can never be, a proven fact that God does not exist. Catholics do not wish to ban atheists from this forum. Yet the atheist Elton John, apparently, wishes to ban all Catholics.

Atheism is a risky opinion indeed, since it stems from a desire that there be no God, rather than the clear and uncontrovertible conviction that there is no God.

drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

Abominable.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
nucatholic

Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else.

Well, since apparently you are one, that is to be an expected argument. The atheist, of course, does not recognize deicide as a direct crime against God, since he does not acknowledge God in the first place. But that doesn’t excuse him from the crime of all crimes, the crime that make all the other crimes more do-able just because one can decide on one’s own what is right and what is wrong. That’s moral relativism … and that’s evil and is largely what is wrong with the world today.

As an atheist you have your opinion, since it is not a fact, and can never be, a proven fact that God does not exist. Catholics do not wish to ban atheists from this forum. Yet the atheist Elton John, apparently, wishes to ban all Catholics.

Atheism is a risky opinion indeed, since it stems from a desire that there be no God, rather than the clear and uncontrovertible conviction that there is no God.

drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

Abominable.
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Elton John raises some interesting points in that “Abominable” article. Like why haven’t the religious leaders of the world united in a cry/movement for peace?
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
nucatholic

Atheists are no better or worse than anyone else.

Well, since apparently you are one, that is to be an expected argument. The atheist, of course, does not recognize deicide as a direct crime against God, since he does not acknowledge God in the first place. But that doesn’t excuse him from the crime of all crimes, the crime that make all the other crimes more do-able just because one can decide on one’s own what is right and what is wrong. That’s moral relativism … and that’s evil and is largely what is wrong with the world today.

As an atheist you have your opinion, since it is not a fact, and can never be, a proven fact that God does not exist. Catholics do not wish to ban atheists from this forum. Yet the atheist Elton John, apparently, wishes to ban all Catholics.

Atheism is a risky opinion indeed, since it stems from a desire that there be no God, rather than the clear and uncontrovertible conviction that there is no God.

drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

Abominable.
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Too be fair, Elton is a homo-sexual. The Catholic church doesnt exactly agree with his life-style and considering his age im guessin he’s lived through a time when the Church wasnt so nice about its dislike of homosexuality.

To: Mr. Ex Nihilo
Damn, a theologist who really knows his stuff, I hate that kind! WHy coulnt you’ve simply argued the Earth is 10thousand yrs old and everything proving otherwise is a giant conspiracy by scientists:P

I think my previous statement applies again, though to be honest. Im quite open to the idea of a Creater God but because I feel there is no conclusive evidence either way and as I feel he/she/it isnt an active God then it doesnt matter if I remain agnostic in that account.

For those bashing atheist/theism/agnostism etc, all a matter of perspective. What seems silly to you seems silly to someone else. 🙂
 
Valke2

Elton John raises some interesting points in that “Abominable” article. Like why haven’t the religious leaders of the world united in a cry/movement for peace?

Please show us all the international atheist organizations laboring to produce peace. And how effective do you think they would be if they did?

So do you agree with atheist Elton John that all religion should be banned? Or is it just “no comment” on that part of the article? Perhaps you could voice your position and either support Elton John or condemn him for this abominable notion that religion should be banned.

And by the way, every religion works for peace in its own way. Peace of soul is the most important peace of all, without which there cannot be any worldly peace. Hitler had no real religion and no peace of soul. Then he dragged the world into war and very nearly anihilated all the Jews in Europe.

How’s that for an abomination?
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
Valke2

Elton John raises some interesting points in that “Abominable” article. Like why haven’t the religious leaders of the world united in a cry/movement for peace?

Please show us all the international atheist organizations laboring to produce peace. And how effective do you think they would be if they did?

So do you agree with atheist Elton John that all religion should be banned? Or is it just “no comment” on that part of the article? Perhaps you could voice your position and either support Elton John or condemn him for this abominable notion that religion should be banned.

And by the way, every religion works for peace in its own way. Peace of soul is the most important peace of all, without which there cannot be any worldly peace. Hitler had no real religion and no peace of soul. Then he dragged the world into war and very nearly anihilated all the Jews in Europe.

How’s that for an abomination?
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there are international atheist organizations? ANd if they aren’t getting togehter to promote peace does that mean that our religious leaders shouldn’t either? By and large, atheism does not denote a community so the fact that they are not organizing peace demonstrations etc. is not surprising. I don’t agree that all religion should be banned and Elton John isn’t exaclty leading any such movement. He just gave some personal opinions.
 
Gilbert_Keith said:
And what is an abominable work if it is not the vain attempt to kill one’s own God?

You answered:

You think it a matter of fact the there is a God, I remain to be convinced.
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There is nothing wrong with that answer.
Gilbert_Keith said:
Now you really are getting silly. First you complain that I leave off half the quote from Psalms. Then when I try to accomodate you by explaining what the other half of the Psalm might be referring to … abominable works, such as trying in vain to kill one’s own God … you complain that I have not proven there is a God to kill.

You wanted me to explain something in its own context. I did.
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When you say what the other half might be referring to, that is evidence that you are speculating.

I never asked you to prove there is a God, I just said that I don’t accept it as readily as you.

You didn’t explain it in its own context, just your interpretation.
Gilbert_Keith said:
Then you start up the old atheist rant about it being no “fact” that God exists. That is not an acceptable rebuttal.
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It may be an old rant but it’s true. There is no fact, so it is an acceptable rebuttal.
Gilbert_Keith said:
What you must now concede is that I have cited the whole verse … and it still comes down to the same thing … “The fool in his heart says there is no God.”
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You only cited the whole verse because I pointed out that you missed it. You wouldn’t have otherwise. I still don’t accept what the first part says.
Gilbert_Keith said:
The fool, by the way, is not necessarily a dumb person. Some fools are very clever indeed. But the fool is someone who lies to himself … such as a person who persuades himself there can be no God because he can’t stand the thought of any Ego bigger than his own.
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Just because you think this, doesn’t make it so
 
R McGeddon

Your one-liners have become tiresome. I guess we have nothing more to say to each other.

God bless and keep you.

Gilbert
 
Valke2

ANd if they aren’t getting togehter to promote peace does that mean that our religious leaders shouldn’t either?

Our religious leaders do. Just because you aren’t part of the process, it doesn’t follow that they are not trying to promote peace each in their own way through diplomatic channels and common prayer (prayer is a method you don’t believe in?).

Again, what are atheists doing, internationally or individually, to promote peace? Are they using diplomatic channels? Im not aware of such. I don’t think atheist Elton John is promoting peace when he declares war on all religion.
 
Valke2 said:
just a small joke, in response to someone talking about how they preferred to see the QUeen’s english “used properly”.
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Is “used properly” an incorrect use of English? It is in everyday use in England.
 
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