Calling all Americans Catholics! I have questions for you!

[thomfra]

“One thing that has always seemed strange to me is how dog-eat-dog life seems to be in the US, compared to the rest of the developed world.”

Freedom. It’s all about freedom. If you’re not free, you’re vulnerable. Who is in charge of you, besides God? What if that *human authority *decides it doesn’t want you to believe in God? How will you combat it, since you’ve already given it the authority to *run your life? *

As an American, I am free. Nobody but God runs my life. Nobody.

From what I am reading here it seems the general concensus is that Americans see goverment as something which should be “hands off” - blend in as little as possible in private life, whereas perhaps Europeans (and Canadians maybe) feel that the government should be representative and more of a father figure (a bit like the scandinavian model).

I am interested to see what people base this “America is the most generous nation on earth” come from though. Do we have a source?

This one seems to show that european (governments) are more generous.

globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

NB: I am **not **saying that individual americans are not generous. I have lived in the states, and found the people to be very generous and welcoming.

I am thinking more about the people you have elected to run the country.

Estebob. I would love to see your source showing where middle class europeans are worse off than the poor in the US!?!!?!?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

“One thing that has always seemed strange to me is how dog-eat-dog life seems to be in the US, compared to the rest of the developed world.”

Freedom. It’s all about freedom. If you’re not free, you’re vulnerable. Who is in charge of you, besides God? What if that *human authority *decides it doesn’t want you to believe in God? How will you combat it, since you’ve already given it the authority to *run your life? *

As an American, I am free. Nobody but God runs my life. Nobody.

Great post, Alfred. Thanks.

 

[thomfra]

“One thing that has always seemed strange to me is how dog-eat-dog life seems to be in the US, compared to the rest of the developed world.”

Freedom. It’s all about freedom. If you’re not free, you’re vulnerable. Who is in charge of you, besides God? What if that *human authority *decides it doesn’t want you to believe in God? How will you combat it, since you’ve already given it the authority to *run your life? *

As an American, I am free. Nobody but God runs my life. Nobody.

But freedom can’t really be utilised if you live in a cardboard box, and have to worry about where your next meal is coming from now can it.

Are Americans more free than say…the French, or the English?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

From what I am reading here it seems the general concensus is that Americans see goverment as something which should be “hands off” - blend in as little as possible in private life, whereas perhaps Europeans (and Canadians maybe) feel that the government should be representative and more of a father figure (a bit like the scandinavian model).

I am interested to see what people base this “America is the most generous nation on earth” come from though. Do we have a source?

This one seems to show that european (governments) are more generous.

globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

NB: I am **not **saying that individual americans are not generous. I have lived in the states, and found the people to be very generous and welcoming.

---

From Jesus N Cherie
I think that what it comes down to is that the people of the United States are extremely generous!!! And the government only gets in our way taking away our money supposedly to support good programs and the needs of all. The biggest problem with that is that there are WAY too many hands in the pot. That prevents the program or the poor to actually reap the benefits of our tax dollars. And then you have people who make a VERY good living, being paid by the government, to promote programs that are proven by society to be harmful to society…yet the government continues to give them money.

When individual people see a need, they usually rise to the occasion as best they are able to. You see someone holding a sign asking for money to buy food…you buy them some food hopefully rather than give them money. You see someone who is obviously cold, and without the means to warm themselves, you give them a coat…even if it your own if you have more at home.
When disaster strikes, you give to the organizations that should provide individual’s needs. And the government and so many others stick their hand in the pot.

Things would change in this country if beauracrats kept their hands out of the pot. If we gave to individuals in need out of our own pocket…things would definitely change for the better. These government programs actually prevent people showing charity because these people are believed to have been already helped by our tax dollars. Unfortunatly, nothing could be farther from the truth. *** end quote

I am thinking more about the people you have elected to run the country.

Estebob. I would love to see your source showing where middle class europeans are worse off than the poor in the US!?!!?!?

 

[adstrinity]

But freedom can’t really be utilised if you live in a cardboard box, and have to worry about where your next meal is coming from now can it.

Are Americans more free than say…the French, or the English?

Actually, there are some who believe that being homeless is a freedom, and a grand one at that. If one doesn’t have a home, then one cannot lose a home. One does not have to worry about mortgage payments or keeping up with the lawn. One does not have to worry about noisy neighbours. If one does not have a domicile, then one does not have to pay an electricity bill. Because of this, one is not tethered by his or her computer, television schedule, or re-charging his or her cell phone.

If one doesn’t want all that freedom, and most don’t; I would’t, there are programs one could apply for through the government. God and the government will provide.

 

[grandfather]

I am interested to see what people base this “America is the most generous nation on earth” come from though. Do we have a source?

I don’t have time to dig, but have seen many times tyhr statistics of American philanthropy vs. the rest of the world and it is indeed much higher. With that said, Americans have a higher standard of living so they should be more generous.

This one seems to show that european (governments) are more generous.

Here is the difference. Governments forcibly take money from citizens in taxes. The citizens have no choice in the matter. It is pay up or suffer the consequences. When people freely give their treasure or time out of compassion and love of neighbor it is different. Prior to the government here in the U.S. gtting involved in health care for example, every city in the country had many hospitals. They still exist. You can look in the phone directory in every city and see them named, Saint Vincents, Saint Francis, Sacred Heart, etc. They were built by the freely given donations from the people. The motive is charity, love of neighbor. The government had nothing to do with any of it.

In addition to having a different motive in charity vs. taxes, there is a view in the U.S. that the government is not careful with the money it takes from the people. Much is wasted. When people are dealing with hard earned money that has been given for a purpose they generally are more careful about not wasting it. I think there is a great deal of truth in this. Politicians waste government largesse.

I am thinking more about the people you have elected to run the country.

Politicians are always untrustworthy. It goes with the territory and that is not only in the U.S.

Estebob. I would love to see your source showing where middle class europeans are worse off than the poor in the US!?!!?!?

I don’t know if that is true or not. Using the the events of Katrina example however is not a means of looking at a cross section of the U.S. New Orleans is an aberration. It exists as a so called cultural center. What that means in reality is that it is a place to go for sex, drugs and rock and roll. It is most famous for mardigras, several days of drunken, debauchery. Iowa just had very severe flooding. It did not make the news. It is a place full of hard working people who suffered through without billions in aid, and they will recover long before New Orleans. So which place is a better reflection of America?

 

[Verisimilitude]

When people freely give their treasure or time out of compassion and love of neighbor it is different. Prior to the government here in the U.S. gtting involved in health care for example, every city in the country had many hospitals. They still exist. You can look in the phone directory in every city and see them named, Saint Vincents, Saint Francis, Sacred Heart, etc. They were built by the freely given donations from the people. The motive is charity, love of neighbor. The government had nothing to do with any of it.

You make a really good point. Sometime in the last generation or so and into this one has the federal government taken near literal possession of them among other utilities/institutions/education which have since merged with the international business to the detrament of America. America has changed and unless it changes again I think those days of generosity will have been taxed out never to return and so with it its spirit. When the spirit goes hope is lost. Nations are like a person in that sense I think.

The People (local communities) don’t own America anymore. The Federal government does (by regulations and taxes) along with the insurance companies (mandated by government). Some don’t care or don’t realize it. Some want to merge even further into one world government and think it a good thing and/or inevitable. It might be inevitable but the jury is out whether it would be good or not. Some oppose it. Some more than others.

 

[grandfather]

The People (local communities) don’t own America anymore. The Federal government does (by regulations and taxes) along with the insurance companies (mandated by government). Some don’t care or don’t realize it. Some want to merge even further into one world government and think it a good thing and/or inevitable. It might be inevitable but the jury is out whether it would be good or not. Some oppose it. Some more than others.

What does the OP think about this? He seems to think the government should do everything for everyone.

 

[Biggie]

Ditto a number of the posts here. Socialism / Communism is a European invention. The paradigm of the Socialist state has already dramatically failed, yet many European nations continue on the path. I think they are able to continue the societal grand experiment because they take no responsibility for their own defense. It is good to remember that it was the Socialist model that persecuted religion, and to realize that religion has atrophied in the arid soil of European big government. In contrast the “materialistic”, capitalist United States has always protected belief, and certainly Catholics have a privileged and fruitful existence here. Finally, no European could doubt which system has produced more prosperity for its people. Since when did peaceful prosperity become something which should not be sought and prayed for?

 

[Dale_M]

I am interested to see what people base this “America is the most generous nation on earth” come from though. Do we have a source?

This one seems to show that european (governments) are more generous.

globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

NB: I am **not **saying that individual americans are not generous. I have lived in the states, and found the people to be very generous and welcoming.

I am thinking more about the people you have elected to run the country.

Yes, as a percentage of our GDP, the foreign aid of the US government ranks around #22 in world.
nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don_pergdp-economic-aid-donor-per-gdp
(this link uses the same data, but offers a bit more information)

In terms of total dollars, the US government ranks number one in foreign aid, because our economy is the largest in the world. But total dollars may be a misleading measurement - think of the widow’s mite.

I’d be interested in seeing how private donors in the US compare to the private donors of other nations in terms of international aid.
Does anyone have figures for that?

 

[rlg94086]

Ditto a number of the posts here. Socialism / Communism is a European invention. The paradigm of the Socialist state has already dramatically failed, yet many European nations continue on the path. I think they are able to continue the societal grand experiment because they take no responsibility for their own defense. It is good to remember that it was the Socialist model that persecuted religion, and to realize that religion has atrophied in the arid soil of European big government. In contrast the “materialistic”, capitalist United States has always protected belief, and certainly Catholics have a privileged and fruitful existence here. Finally, no European could doubt which system has produced more prosperity for its people. Since when did peaceful prosperity become something which should not be sought and prayed for?

I don’t have experience in all of Europe, but I worked for a Dutch company for a couple of years. They are rolling back a lot of their socialist protections…can’t afford them anymore. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next generation, as their dwindling population ages.

As far as cost-of-living and quality-of-life, I consider it a mixed bag. A person can have a much better lifestyle materially (size of house, goodies, etc.) in the US on a comparable income to the Europeans I worked with. However, culturally, there is much to be applauded in Europe when it comes to balance of work and family life.

Overall, I don’t see America as superior or Europe as superior. We both have our good and our bad. Both are preferable, in my experience, to Japan…but I’m sure many of my Japanese friends would disagree.

Bottomline, don’t be so black-and-white. And, I am speaking to both Americans and Europeans. Get a grip! Let’s learn from each other and Our Church and improve our societies/countries.

 

[Biggie]

Bottomline, don’t be so black-and-white. And, I am speaking to both Americans and Europeans. Get a grip! Let’s learn from each other and Our Church and improve our societies/countries.

Sorry, I’m not a citizen of the world and I think the world continues to need the unique American perspective and particularly American strength. In my opinion all these socialistic big government formulations will continue to be pressed and continue to fail until multi-national, one government solutions are sought. Marx, I think, understood that socialism can not work in a vacuum. In that sense, I think it is essential that Americans retain our identity.

 

[rlg94086]

Sorry, I’m not a citizen of the world and I think the world continues to need the unique American perspective and particularly American strength. In my opinion all these socialistic big government formulations will continue to be pressed and continue to fail until multi-national, one government solutions are sought. Marx, I think, understood that socialism can not work in a vacuum. In that sense, I think it is essential that Americans retain our identity.

I didn’t say we should give those up, so I’m not sure what to make of your response. Are you saying that our society is the *absolute *model for the world? Nothing could be improved? There is nothing to learn from any other society? Really?

I love my country. I don’t join the “I hate America” chorus of some of the earlier posters on this thread. However, I recognize that other societies do have some good in them that could be incorporated into our public policy.

For example - in Holland, on top of a Social Security program, they have a forced retirement savings program (10%?..IIRC). Now, that money belongs to the individual, but it is not an optional savings. I’m not sure that is a bad idea. As we all know, the equivalent ROI on Social Security is abhorrent. Perhaps, a similar system would take some of the burden off of taxpayers. Now, please…I don’t want to take this thread off-topic and go into a discussion of retirement accounts. My point is that there are things out there that may be useful to make our country even greater.

 

[christcnection1]

1. Why is America like this?
2. How do Catholic Americans feel about how the average American citizen is looked after when things don’t go so well (those who are broke, sick, unemployed etc).

1. You are partly correct. However, often, the appearance of impropriety is as damaging as the impropriety itself.
2. It depends. American Catholics ought to desire health and success, for all its citizens, and in all the right ways. Within the American mindset tends to come a radical view of individual liberty and responsibility. Although this allows for great creative potential and freedom, it also enables others to use the system to serve oneself at the expense of others.

In my opinion, if man’s heart were in a better place, particularly in this day of age, the U.S. system would be among the best. If the moral state continues to plummet, the system will collapse at best, and at worst, serve to sink all the nations into an abyss of death.

In a nutshell, we have the best of the best and the worst of the worst and the potential to carry it either way. Let’s hope the pendulum swings closer toward the light and stays there.

I do believe that a greater sense of community should to be fostered in the United States and within her churches, rather than a mentality of self-serving individualism.

No. It’s not all about me. (…as many advertisements suggest)

 

[YADA]

I don’t have experience in all of Europe, but I worked for a Dutch company for a couple of years. They are rolling back a lot of their socialist protections…can’t afford them anymore. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next generation, as their dwindling population ages.

As far as cost-of-living and quality-of-life, I consider it a mixed bag. A person can have a much better lifestyle materially (size of house, goodies, etc.) in the US on a comparable income to the Europeans I worked with. However, culturally, there is much to be applauded in Europe when it comes to balance of work and family life.

Overall, I don’t see America as superior or Europe as superior. We both have our good and our bad. Both are preferable, in my experience, to Japan…but I’m sure many of my Japanese friends would disagree.

Bottomline, don’t be so black-and-white. And, I am speaking to both Americans and Europeans. Get a grip! Let’s learn from each other and Our Church and improve our societies/countries.

See here - from: american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers

Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?
A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.

 

[rlg94086]

See here - from: american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers

LOL…Already saw it…agree 100%. How is that a response to anything ***I ***said?

 

[YADA]

ANd here is a paper on the charitable giving of countries and their private citizen donations, it is 40 pages but interesting …

cgdev.org/doc/cdi/charitablegiving.pdf

 

[YADA]

Americans long have preferred to donate their money through the private sector or to private charities. Of the $122.8 billion of foreign aid provided by Americans in 2005, the most current data available, $95.5 billion, or 79 percent, came from private foundations, corporations, voluntary organizations, universities, religious organizations and individuals, according to the latest annual Index of Global Philanthropy, which is published by a Washington research organization, the Center for Global Prosperity at the Hudson Institute.

The Giving USA report does not take into account the value of contributions Americans make in terms of time and labor. More than 61 million Americans volunteered for charitable and national service organizations in 2006, and about half of all Americans participate in volunteer activities each year, according to Brooks. Volunteerism is “a major cultural phenomenon in the U.S.,” Brooks says.

See full article here:

america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/June/200706261522251CJsamohT0.8012354.html

 

[YADA]

LOL…Already saw it…agree 100%. How is that a response to anything ***I ***said?

Not a response … just information US and Europe …

 

[Biggie]

I didn’t say we should give those up, so I’m not sure what to make of your response. Are you saying that our society is the *absolute *model for the world? Nothing could be improved? There is nothing to learn from any other society? Really? .

Of course, not. I am saying that solutions to economic problems that involve force of government directed at individuals, or that involve government administration of private industry / property are suspect on their face. The temptation to pick and chose programs that sound good throws out the principle. Much of Europe has no strong tradition of individual liberty, private ownership of capital, classless society. In those areas, we are the model like it or not (cfr the American Revolution). We need to be en garde to recognize threats to those values. Much of the recent debate in the areas of health insurance, oil, banking could be read as debate whether or not to nationalize those industries. Whenever the word nationalize is mentioned, we need to think Europe because it was invented there. Nationalized industry is the antithesis of the American model, and those who recognize the superiority of liberty and private ownership of property over other forms of government and economy should to that extent be wary of continental influences. That’s all.