Calling all Americans Catholics! I have questions for you!

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

The triage nurse/doctor.

When I went to the hospital with stomach pains, I was high on the pecking order. Due to the possible serious problems attached to abdominal pains like mine, the only people who went ahead of me were trauma, chest pain, and anyone chained to a cop. When I arrived, the triage nurse took my info, and then also took my BP and temp. I was also informed to sit close by so she could keep an eye on me. I eventually got in to see a doctor, was diagnosed with mild food poisoning, kept an eye on while it ran its course and I was ambulatory, and sent home.

In the meanwhile, before I got in, there were quite a few heart attacks, at least two traumas, and about three handcuffed to a gurney or a policeman.

I went to a doctor with a major boil (good gravy, those things are painful!) – he took a quick look at it, and immediately called the hospital to have me seen. Apparently the boil was extremely close to a major blood vessel, so I was running a risk of blood poisoning. Within an hour I was on my way to the hospital, where they were waiting for me, and had me “treated”. :knight2:

In both cases, I was treated based on the severity and danger of my condition. Triage.

Yes, that is the way it is today. That is the way it should be. But if the government controls it all, don’t you see a definite possibility for that to change? The ACLU will be suing the hospital for believing that Chester’s life threatening illness was more important than Bob, who had obediently waited his turn. This makes no common sense. But when the government controls anything, common sense takes a long walk off of a short pier.

 

[KenEOTE]

yeah! yeah! yeah! I realize I may be stuck in the group who you are putting down, but to be honest, I hate the circumstances I am stuck in at this moment. I have to have this operation. I do not…even working…have the money to pay for it. The doctor nor hospital will consider taking me without money up front and a way to make sure they get paid the rest. I spend my money taking care of my kids. I am not one to splurge. The way things are right now, I am more grateful to my parents than ever. At least all I have to accept or ask for is medical attention for this moment. come August 25, my job is already lined up…God willing. My point is, the government needs to do tort reform to stop the hundred million dollar bogus lawsuits, so that people can afford insurance and doctor bills. Many people are sick, and because of government rules, they cannot get medical help if they have a job. The government works against them helping themselves. If the government stepped out of the picture, and the Church took over the hospitals and clinics like is used to be, I could continue working and still afford to get my surgery and if I needed any help, there could be charity that I could recieve. And as I got on my feet after the surgery, I would donate back into that system. The most significant difference is that the Church and charitable organizations see each individual as an entire person with the dignity given them by God. And they treat the whole person. With the government, you are lucky if they remember your personal id number. Actually they don’t…that’s how unimportant you are to them.

I am not meaning to put anyone down. You don’t sound like the person I was talking about. I agree the governement needs to get out of the medical industry and like youl said give it back to the people and churches to run. Prices would drop.

 

[Cadellin]

Where was Europe on 9/11?

Where would you expect it to be? You forget that 9/11 was an attack on the WORLD Trade Center, not the American Trade Center. 9/11 was a tragedy all over the world because many nations lost citizens in the attack, even in the backwaters of Wales where I live.

Where were they in support of our troops in Iraq?

How much do you Americans know about what’s really going on in Iraq? The British contingency is the second largest in Iraq. Nearly every week we have to bring home the bodies of our troops who have given their lives in support of the Americans in Iraq.

Where are they in helping us with our gasoline crisis?

Gasoline crisis! We’re having one too you know. Petrol, as we call it in Britain, costs the equivalent of $10 a gallon and over $11 a gallon for diesel (although this is not typical of Europe. Britain has the most expensive petrol in Europe.)

But going back to the original posting in this thread, America is the country we most love to hate. We’re probably envious of America’s success and influence in the world.

There is also a lot of resentment towards what might be called American cultural imperialism. For example, Philip Pullman’s book “The Northern Lights” was renamed “The Golden Compass” when Hollywood made in into a film. Over here now, the book has to be sold under the name “The Golden Compass” so people would know what it is. Yet the Tennessee Williams play “A Street Car Named Desire” was not renamed “A Tram Named Desire” when it was produced in Britain. One day my son saw a sign saying “lift”. He asked me what a lift was and when I told him he said, “Oh, you mean an elevator.” Elevator, for Heaven’s sake! He watches too many American TV programmes, but then there’s not much else for him to watch and the kids over here all prefer American programmes anyway. We’re doomed to cultural extinction.

However, all that said we know that if America was to suffer economic and political collapse we’d probably go down with it, along with our present high standard of living. So, while we wave banners say “Americans go home” we’re quietly muttering “God bless America.”

 

[thomfra]

Thomfra,

How can you say the rest of my post is irrelevant if you would like to see this happen?:

Don’t you see that our wasteful “government” throws away enough money (our money) to do this already without raising more $$$ through additional taxes? If the government would either become more efficient and thrifty with our tax dollars which are essentially extorted from us, OR, OR, get out of the social charity business and, not to mention the abortion business among other unseemly businesses and leave us with more of our own hard earned money to donate as we see fit, the health care crisis could be solved. It’s a no brainer.

But surely if the health care of the poor was being adequelty met by the donations of US citizens the government would never have had a reason to spend tax money on it in the first place?

I think we would be overly optimistic if we were to rely on public donations (that coming from a possible tax break) for all health care for the poor.

Say the government said

“ok, we spend 10% of your tax on health care for the poor, we are going to give you that 10% back for your to spend as you see fit”.
How much of that tax rebate do you honestly think would go back to charity?

 

[thomfra]

I commend you for wanting a more compassionate world. But the world of is full of human beings. Humans are awefully selfish and flawed in numerous ways.

There have been many a government who have claimed to have the right stuff to make the perfect, compassionate, prosperous community where everyone is treated exactly the same. Usually what follows is imprisonment and murder on enourmous scale.

yes, but you are calling all countries that have a strong “welfare state” socialist and lumping these countries in with eastern block communist countries.

i.e. Where has the murder and imprisonment been in Norway, sweden, Australia, England? Ireland…

Do you see what I mean?

All of these countries have strong welfare systems (albiet with flaws…nothing is perfect). In addition to this they are all “upwardly mobile” countries.

 

[Leebo]

yes, but you are calling all countries that have a strong “welfare state” socialist and lumping these countries in with eastern block communist countries.

i.e. Where has the murder and imprisonment been in Norway, sweden, Australia, England? Ireland…

Do you see what I mean?

All of these countries have strong welfare systems (albiet with flaws…nothing is perfect). In addition to this they are all “upwardly mobile” countries.

Well we will see where they are in a few years. I don’t think they will be committing mass murder or anything like that, but they are going to have alot of problems if they keep traveling down the road to socialism. To be honest, I thought Ireland and Australia were the least socialistic of our Allies, but certainly you would know better than I.

I also wonder if alot of European countries are going to have a huge problem with Muslim extremism(home grown) over the next few years?

What do you think?

 

[thomfra]

I also wonder if alot of European countries are going to have a huge problem with Muslim extremism over the next few years? What do you think?

Hard to say. I think the troubles in France (car burning) were more due to unemployment general frustration with their lot in life.

Obviously when home grown terrorists are blowing up trains in the london tube then it’s not a good sign… Mind you, it was the IRA (extremist catholics???) a few years back.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well we will see where they are in a few years. I don’t think they will be committing mass murder or anything like that, but they are going to have alot of problems if they keep traveling down the road to socialism. To be honest, I thought Ireland and Australia were the least socialistic of our Allies, but certainly you would know better than I.

Well, they’ve had these systems for 60 years (more in some cases) and they’re pretty nice places to live.

I also wonder if alot of European countries are going to have a huge problem with Muslim extremism(home grown) over the next few years?

Extremism is something of which European countries have more than a little experience over the centuries.

What do you think?

Different societies, different cultures, different understanding of the word ‘socialism’.

 

[KenEOTE]

yes, but you are calling all countries that have a strong “welfare state” socialist and lumping these countries in with eastern block communist countries.

i.e. Where has the murder and imprisonment been in Norway, sweden, Australia, England? Ireland…

Do you see what I mean?

All of these countries have strong welfare systems (albiet with flaws…nothing is perfect). In addition to this they are all “upwardly mobile” countries.

Here is the definition of Socialism:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Notice mass murder is not part of it. Just because there are no mass killings does not mean it is not a socialist government.

A strong “welfare state” is a socialist doctrine. Universal Healthcare is a Socialist Doctrine.

 

[Kaninchen]

Here is the definition of Socialism:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Notice mass murder is not part of it. Just because there are no mass killings does not mean it is not a socialist government.

A strong “welfare state” is a socialist doctrine. Universal Healthcare is a Socialist Doctrine.

So, which Western European countries have state control of the means of production, distribution and exchange?

What they actually have is compulsory state insurance systems - a feature of ‘social democracy’ rather than ‘socialism’.

 

[KenEOTE]

I am not calling them socialist countries. I said they have socialist leanings. Welfare and Universal Healthcare our part of a socialist society. Its a step in that direction.

All I did was give the definition of what socialism is because thomfra stated that mass murder is part of socialism.

But then again… most Universal Health Care includes Abortion which is mass murder so hey there you go… I found it.

 

[thomfra]

Here is the definition of Socialism:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Notice mass murder is not part of it. Just because there are no mass killings does not mean it is not a socialist government.

A strong “welfare state” is a socialist doctrine. Universal Healthcare is a Socialist Doctrine.

So what if it is? There is no perfect system. One can pick and choose which parts of which system work best for the populace.

All of the countries I listed have:

1. Private companies (as well as some public)
2. Private property
3. not relevant as those countries have not intention of becoming communist.

 

[KenEOTE]

Well her ein the US they are already making strides to take away private Property.

I am opposed to the governement running anythign other then the Military, Police, Firedepartment and taking care of the roads. Other then that they need to get there hands out of things. They mess it up too much

 

[Kaninchen]

I am not calling them socialist countries. I said they have socialist leanings. Welfare and Universal Healthcare our part of a socialist society. Its a step in that direction.

Only given a definition of ‘socialism’ which isn’t on your list of definitions - ie another way of saying ‘Un-American’.

All I did was give the definition of what socialism is because thomfra stated that mass murder is part of socialism.

But then again… most Universal Health Care includes Abortion which is mass murder so hey there you go… I found it.

Which Western European countries have higher abortion rates than the US?

Since they don’t, does that mean the US is more socialist?

 

[thomfra]

All I did was give the definition of what socialism is because thomfra stated that mass murder is part of socialism.

No, that was another poster who alluded to that.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well her ein the US they are already making strides to take away private Property.

I am opposed to the governement running anythign other then the Military, Police, Firedepartment and taking care of the roads. Other then that they need to get there hands out of things. They mess it up too much

So, what you don’t approve of is a definition of ‘socialism’?

 

[KenEOTE]

America is becoming very socialist. Yes.

No I do not approve or support socialism. I think it is wrong. I think taking away and redistrubition is unfair, and illogical, it also calls for a dependence on Government. We shoudl not depend on Government to take care of any of our needs besides Protecting us from harm. Such as terrorists.

 

[Kaninchen]

America is becoming very socialist. Yes.

No I do not approve or support socialism. I think it is wrong. I think taking away and redistrubition is unfair, and illogical, it also calls for a dependence on Government. We shoudl not depend on Government to take care of any of our needs besides Protecting us from harm. Such as terrorists.

You are welcome to believe what you believe - what is at issue is whether each and any alternative to what you believe falls under the definition of ‘socialism’ and, certainly, whether ascribing to each and any alternative to what you believe some kind of affinity to the experience of people who lived under communist regimes is anything other than an insult to those people and their experience.*

 

[KenEOTE]

I have worked hard to get to where I am at. I do not like the thought of the Government taking what I have worked hard for to be put into a pot and distributed as they see fit.

It will lead to the money going to abortions, partial-birth abortions, and eventually could lead to euthanasia. I say this only because I have friends from Canada who are in their 60’s they have come to the United States for his Heart treatment because in Canada they are on a year waiting list. If he had to wait a year for what he needs he would die. So he comes to the United States and gets the treatment he needs. Of course if he was 20 years younger he would be higher on the list. That is how it works. The determine by the severity of yoru illness and your age where you should be on the list. Universal Healthcare makes the Government God saying who get what treatment and why and if they are deemed an important part of the society. So will the poor and less fortunate really get the Health Care they need? Or will they be placed behind the person who is deemed a hard worker? As it stands now if you go to a Hospital they will take care of you wheter you have Health Care or not. They have payment plans. I only recently got Health Care. While I didn’t have Health Care I had two daughters. The Hospital worked with us so we could pay for it. I see no reason to move to Universal Healthcare.

 

[KenEOTE]

Well Kaninchen the same could be said to you. You do not like how America runs things. I find it offensive when an person from another country condemns or tells us how we should run things.

My comments on the systems come from friends who have lived under those systems and came to the United States for their Health Care. I have not met any Americans who run to England, France, Canada, Norway for better Health Care but I have seen and talked to many who have come here.

The Definition of socialism is what I gave you. It came from the dictionary. I do not like any form of wealth redistribution by the governement. I will say it again. The Governments role in the world is to maintain the military, police, fired department and infrastructure such as highways. They should not be involved in Education, Health Care, or anything else.

If you do not like how America runs things, that is fine that is your opinion you can have it. When you decide to come here and become a citizen you can start protesting.