Calling all apologists.......HELP!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lisa4Catholics
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Don’t know if this will help - but its’ from the Ask the Apologist Forum - info on a Handbook of Denominations.

I do not know what book your friend shared with you, but a book that contains similar information is Handbook of Denominations by Frank S. Mead, and is available for purchase from Catholic Answers (contact information).
 
Well, I guess my short answer is, “So what?” Whether its 5 denominations or 20,000 denominations, the point is that unless God had provided for an established visible authority, there would be no guarantee that the objective truth of the Gospel would be preserved. All you have to do is look at the various Canonical lists of Scripture to realize that the Church had to have some kind of infallible authority to even come up with a canon of Scripture.

Just ask a protestant how he knows that the epistle of James should be in the canon of Scripture? or Revelation? or one of the Gospels? Why not throw out a book or two if it contradicts the theological perspective of my church?

History, reason, and common sense shows us that most people do not have the education and rational skills to decide these matters for themselves. That is one reason why Christ established an objective authority to be obeyed by the laity. If salvation and truth were only accessible to those who could do in depth research, then the vast majority of humanity would be excluded.
 
Just another thought…just having **more than one **Protestant denomination shows the flaw of Protestantism. If Sola Scriptura is true - *i.e. - all we need is the bible *- then there should be no disagreement whatsoever among non-Catholics on salvific issues such as baptism, once saved always saved, predestination, eschatology, etc.

While being able to cite tens of thousands of denominations helps drive the point home, in the end, two is one too many if they differ on their doctrine.
 
I am not sure that you can pin it down, how many independant house Churches are there throughout the world?

Contesting the number is a good way of evading the issue and not acknowledging the weakness of Sola Scriptura. What I really suggest is do not cite any specific number as certain as it is growing each day. You then just get sidetracked into trying to find a specific number which doesn’t matter if it is 2 or 20 or 2000 it is wrong to have more than one version of the truth as there is no such thing as versions of the truth. Either certain things are true or not and our denial of it leads to people following others to different interpretations.

So to cut it short…
State that the number can be wrong, if needed as this is one sources estimate and it changes daily. Just link the source and some supporting documentation and state that argueing over specific numbers is evading the issue.
It does depend on how you count them and I don’t think you will ever get an accurate number this side of heaven. So focus on the real issue that there isn’t one unified Sola Scriptura interpretation.

God Bless
Scylla
 
I think the major argument for that paper was that Roman Catholicism is split just as Protestantism. I guess they are referring to the different rites or schismatic groups. I’m not sure how I would respond to them, but for some reason that argument just doesn’t hold up IMO.
 
40.png
scylla:
I am not sure that you can pin it down, how many independant house Churches are there throughout the world?
Click to expand...

IOW - define the meaning of your terms - before getting involved in this kind of nonsense. Otherwise, people may be using identical words in different senses; which is to beg for trouble.​

Contesting the number is a good way of evading the issue and not acknowledging the weakness of Sola Scriptura. What I really suggest is do not cite any specific number as certain as it is growing each day. You then just get sidetracked into trying to find a specific number which doesn’t matter if it is 2 or 20 or 2000 it is wrong to have more than one version of the truth as there is no such thing as versions of the truth.
Click to expand...

That last bit will be meaningless unless what it means is made clear. Of course one can have more than one version of the truth - it all depends what one means by “version of the truth”;​

and by
  • what one implies and excludes and allows by one’s affirmations and denials
  • which in turn depend on
  • what the other person says, knows, means, allows, and excludes; and is understood to say, mean, allow, exclude.
Either certain things are true or not and our denial of it leads to people following others to different interpretations.
Click to expand...

One can perfectly well have different understandings of the Incarnation, or of Predestination, or of the Eucharist - that is why there are and have been so many theological schools among Catholic theologians. The Church is quite large enough to accommodate both Thomists and Scotists. The people it should not tolerate, are those who think that God predestines in view of the future merits of the elect, as they are hardly better than heretics - unfortunately it does tolerate them, which is appalling 😦​

So to cut it short…
State that the number can be wrong, if needed as this is one sources estimate and it changes daily. Just link the source and some supporting documentation and state that argueing over specific numbers is evading the issue.
Click to expand...

It is, only if both are agreed that it is. If Catholics are going to complain the figures are inaccurate - let them show it, or belt up.​

It does depend on how you count them and I don’t think you will ever get an accurate number this side of heaven.
Click to expand...

Which completely explodes any argument built on the figures. It is grossly illogical to try to draw conclusions which are certain, from premises which one has not tried to establish.​

This is Catholic argument at its shabbiest. Catholics have to be logical, and they have to be honest, and have to understand the other person’s position, and their own.

Does it ever occur to Catholics that the mere number of bodies may not be much of a problem for the notion of the oneness of the Church, if one is Protestant ? It is the CC - not Protestantism - which insists that the unity of the Church requires that the communion of its parts should be visible. We may find that a scandal - though if we did, our manners to them might be kinder - but it does not follow that Protestants find this numerousness a scandal; so much depends on how one relates churches to the Church Universal, and in what ways. It is lunacy to argue with a Protestant on the assumption that he or she will have a Catholic notion of the unity of the Church. Unless Catholics can get it through their heads that Protestants have their own notions of what the oneness of Church may or may not involve, they will get absolutely nowhere. ##
So focus on the real issue that there isn’t one unified Sola Scriptura interpretation.

God Bless
Scylla
Click to expand...
 
Actually there are millions of denominations, literaly millions. Really??

I personally know people that are “Christians” and don’t follow any particular denomination. They say its just themselves and their own bible that is going to save them, thats it! They don’t even go to Church or anything, its just them and their bible!

Should these one-man-denominations be counted also?? Is the Blessed Body of our Lord being cut down to smaller pieces here??? I am willing to bet the number of one-man-denominationalism is quite high, and growing by the hour! All these Luthers.

Another thing, non denominational churches are denominations within themselves. This is a big oxy moron (sp??) that alot of protestants miss!

God Bless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top