Calling All Former Atheists & Doubting Thomases!

[Truly_Beloved]

Mods: If this is in the wrong spot, I’m sorry… I couldn’t figure out where to put it.

DH is a cradle Catholic, but is currently experiencing a crisis of faith. He is a very logical, analytical, engineer-type of guy. I figured that if I had help from people who didn’t believe in God at all (or those who struggled a lot), and then converted to Catholicism, I could help my DH.

Okay, so here are my questions:

Did you experience a revelation, miracle, or other supernatural occurrence that gave you faith? If not, how did faith come to you?

What were your most logical arguments against the concept of God, and how were they successfully refuted? What are your most logical arguments for the existence of God?

How do I logically explain miracles? For instance, I say, “Well, let’s take the Red Sea. Strong winds part it all the time (a natural occurrence), the miracle is in the timing. It was at the exact time that Moses commanded the Sea to part, that it did. God does work through natural means to create miracles, and it’s all about the timing!” He seemed to understand, but still doubtful.

Anything rooted heavily in science/logic/mathematics is respected by my DH, and since you can’t scientifically “prove” God’s existence, he’s really struggling. I’m more of a mystic, myself, so when I talk of guardian angels, Satan, and miracles, he kinda thinks I’m childish, I think.

I have faith that it’s possible to logically argue pro God, I just don’t know how. DH did promise me that he would seek out a spiritual advisor, as this is out of my scope of expertise, but I still want to help.

Oh, yeah, one thing I started doing immediately was praying, so please know that is already being done. Thank you so very much!!!

 

[Jason_Hurd]

Just a suggestion from personal experience: I am also a pretty logical-thinking person, and one of the greatest experiences that pushed me towards conversion was reading the works of C.S.Lewis, especially Mere Christianity, The Great Divorce, The Weight of Glory and Miracles. These books are not specifically Catholic in outlook, but they lay a firm logical and philosophical foundation for a belief in the Christian God that is hard to argue against. They worked for me; perhaps they will work for your husband, too.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

THANK YOU, Jason! I will definitely get a hold of these books.

 

[johndock]

Read- I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist by Geisler and Turek. Excellent!!!

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Ooooh, John, that looks like a good one, too!

 

[CarlosG]

Mods: If this is in the wrong spot, I’m sorry… I couldn’t figure out where to put it.

DH is a cradle Catholic, but is currently experiencing a crisis of faith. He is a very logical, analytical, engineer-type of guy. I figured that if I had help from people who didn’t believe in God at all (or those who struggled a lot), and then converted to Catholicism, I could help my DH.

Okay, so here are my questions:

Did you experience a revelation, miracle, or other supernatural occurrence that gave you faith? If not, how did faith come to you?

Revelation is a term i’d need defined, but other than that, nope.

What were your most logical arguments against the concept of God, and how were they successfully refuted? What are your most logical arguments for the existence of God?

The problem of evil is easily the most powerful argument against God’s existence, not because I find it philosophically compelling, but because it touches all of us and is therefore very wide in its scope of every day application. The most obvious “answer” to it is that God could not have created free willed beings if the possibility was not there that they could reject His presence. This is probably the most widely written about topic and even has its own category called Theodicies. There are thousands and thousands of articles and rebuttals and counter-rebuttals. I just finished reading a very well written book called “Making Sense out of Suffering” by Peter Kreeft on the subject.

My most compelling arguement for His existance is basically “Why is there something rather than nothing?” (often stated by skeptics to be “A theist’s last stand” lol) and let the conversation hash itself out from there but really I think most arguments for His existence have the inherent weakness of being somewhat reductionistic in their nature because they focus on one thing. The case for Gods existence is most powerful when its taken cumulatively. There is only one piece of scientific data that keeps bouncing around in my head that is somewhat useful for situations like this and thats the fact that we are around at the perfect ‘window’ in the history of the universe to actually view the rest of the universe in all its glory. Had we arrived any sooner or later and the conditions wouldnt have been useful to view the far off galaxies, quasars, red shifts, black holes (although technically we’ve never seen one lol). I hope you get what im saying because my talents are definitely not that of a wordsmith. For sure this fact wont convince the skeptic, but it will give him something to chew on.

How do I logically explain miracles? For instance, I say, “Well, let’s take the Red Sea. Strong winds part it all the time (a natural occurrence), the miracle is in the timing. It was at the exact time that Moses commanded the Sea to part, that it did. God does work through natural means to create miracles, and it’s all about the timing!” He seemed to understand, but still doubtful.

Anything rooted heavily in science/logic/mathematics is respected by my DH, and since you can’t scientifically “prove” God’s existence, he’s really struggling. I’m more of a mystic, myself, so when I talk of guardian angels, Satan, and miracles, he kinda thinks I’m childish, I think.
If it is true that you are ‘childish’, you should take it as a compliment.

I have faith that it’s possible to logically argue pro God, I just don’t know how. DH did promise me that he would seek out a spiritual advisor, as this is out of my scope of expertise, but I still want to help.

Just make sure you don’t stress yourself out over trying to proving things to people, even though I realize that is easier said than done seing as he is your husband ( I take it that is the H of DH yes?).

Maybe you could convince him to get on here and post what is bothering him?

Oh, yeah, one thing I started doing immediately was praying, so please know that is already being done. Thank you so very much!!!

Prayers sent:thumbsup:

 

[CARose]

TB,

I got my degree in BioChem and while I was a student I was undergoing a bit of a crisis of faith myself. But the more I studied, the more I came to see the beauty of God in the Universe. One thing that comes to mind is the impossibility of the world as we know it if you take Entropy into consideration.

Entropy suggests that the world is becoming more random, and yet biological organisms are highly organized. How, therefore, did the cell come about? How did random chemicals in the primordial soup form DNA? How did these random DNA strands spell out the code necessary to define a living organism? How did the organelles of a cell come about from randomness? It just doesn’t make sense if you take into account that the natural tendancy is for things to become more random.

Something had to be acting on the system to create life.

Then, look at the order of things at the subatomic level, it just keeps getting more and more ordered. It’s not random. The deeper you look, the more order that is found. It just goes deeper and deeper.

Turn it around, look at the universe. The further you look the more rhyme and reason you find. There are levels of consistancy, at the grandest scale.

I found that the more I considered creation, the more God was a reasonable possibility.

From there, it took my praying for guidance.

Eventually, I found my way all the way home.

I’m glad you’re praying for him. That’s the most effective thing you can do!

CARose

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hi Im not Catholic but did feel the way your DH does.

Did you experience a revelation, miracle, or other supernatural occurrence that gave you faith? If not, how did faith come to you?

thats hard I went to sunday school young, then met a christian boy who I eventually married. I believed, had a alter call, felt strengthened. Read up on “burning bridges” strengthened again I guess Im saying you do grow it is a process, even if something “hits” you theres always more. Which should appeal to a logical mind because there is always digging in the bible, one can read it and find new truths each time. So its not boring

And there is science, look at what the priest did regarding illness. Yes there was cermonial things, but really why did a sick person have to sit a week outside of camp then be checked before returning? Incubation of the illness, and isolation to keep the camp from being infected. Also, being clean. doctors didnt know to clean their hands til later. But the bible said be clean because God knew of germs. Some things we take for granted but were not known then but God knew.

What were your most logical arguments against the concept of God, and how were they successfully refuted? What are your most logical arguments for the existence of God?

I realised everyones looking for something, atheists even find science as their comfort. What would make all things make sense, everything has to tie together, and God is the tie or glue.

How do I logically explain miracles? For instance, I say, “Well, let’s take the Red Sea. Strong winds part it all the time (a natural occurrence), the miracle is in the timing. It was at the exact time that Moses commanded the Sea to part, that it did. God does work through natural means to create miracles, and it’s all about the timing!” He seemed to understand, but still doubtful.

Your right, I think it can be said that God uses the nature He created to work for Him. Or He can just walk on the water and defy the laws He created. (since He knows the secret formula He can do that ) You wont prove miracles so dont try. Because if there was solid proof then people would believe the miracle not God.

Now, having said that, in the bible Jesus performed miracles and people STILL didnt believe, even though they SAW it. Seeing is not believeing necessarily. And one cant say they were foolish. Think of a time something really odd happened, did you have to doulble take before being convinced of what your eyes were seeing? I was in a building that was burning and it took me and several other to be convinced to get out.

as for proving God your right you cant, I dont think He would allow it anyway, it messes with free will. But that book recommended CS Lewis Mere Christianity starts with Good and Bad and the Meaning of the Universe. Do pick it up you will enjoy it

Your steady faith is the best arguement for God. Ask Him when you pray for wisdom to say the right things. And at times you will say things you didnt realise you knew. Especially when you relax and let the conversation flow. Make sure the spiritual advisor is good, but theres no reason for you to exclude yourself. Go along if its ok and say you want to learn, then you both will be on the same page.

I will say a prayer for you as well

 

[Ahimsa]

“Why is there something instead of nothing?”

Have your DH meditate on that for a couple of years.

 

[TLEtweety]

I know this may not be what you want to hear, but no amount of “proof” that you offer will change his mind. I was in the exact same boat, took me about 3 years to get to where I am now, and I still struggle with doubt. Not doubt about God anymore, doubt about religion. Doubt isn’t an abnormal thing, God gave us our minds to use. I used to get so frustrated when my family (I know they only had my best interest in mind) would tell me “just have faith”. Believe me, I at times wished so much that I could have faith like they did, but I just couldn’t go back.

I think that sometimes people look at questioning in a negative light, but from someone who has been there, I don’t regret any of it. I have a deeper devotion to God than I ever had before, He has opened my eyes up to so many things.

You are doing the most important thing you could ever do, and that is to pray for him. Being there at one time, I would suggest not to aproach him on where he’s at. Let him come to you, and when he does share any insights that you may disagree with, just be there to listen, not to lecture him on why you think it’s wrong. Definetly don’t pull out the bible or scripture. Let God work. God has something great for him, I just know it. He’s going to open his eyes up to something that he wouldn’t have been able to see before.

I will pray for you!

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Carlos, thank you for your kindness. You’ve given me plenty to think about (and yes, DH is “Dear Husband” ). I am usually never the kind of person to go around “proving” things, but like you said, this is my beloved husband, so when the conversation came up, I was shocked and started crying (those darn pregnancy hormones). I haven’t brought anything up since our conversation, I’ve just been praying like there’s no tomorrow.

TB,

I got my degree in BioChem and while I was a student I was undergoing a bit of a crisis of faith myself. But the more I studied, the more I came to see the beauty of God in the Universe.

Your post really gives me hope that the very scientifically inclined can still have faith. Maybe I should encourage him to go deeper into science, then… I might do that the next time he brings it up.

And there is science, look at what the priest did regarding illness. Yes there was cermonial things, but really why did a sick person have to sit a week outside of camp then be checked before returning? Incubation of the illness, and isolation to keep the camp from being infected. Also, being clean. doctors didnt know to clean their hands til later. But the bible said be clean because God knew of germs. Some things we take for granted but were not known then but God knew.

During the course of our conversation, I brought a few of these kinds of examples into the discussion, so I’m hoping he’ll simmer over a few of the ideas presented.

Your steady faith is the best arguement for God. Ask Him when you pray for wisdom to say the right things. And at times you will say things you didnt realise you knew.

I told DH this during the conversation we had… That right as I felt the discussion was going in this direction, I mentally prayed for the Holy Spirit to speak and work through me. I told him that it was almost as if I really wasn’t thinking at all, just letting it all pour out.

“Why is there something instead of nothing?”

Have your DH meditate on that for a couple of years.

Hopefully, it’ll only take a couple of months, lol. I know, God’s time, not mine.

I used to get so frustrated when my family (I know they only had my best interest in mind) would tell me “just have faith”. Believe me, I at times wished so much that I could have faith like they did, but I just couldn’t go back.

I may not be the most logical person in the world, but I know to avoid that phrase like The Plague. In fact, being someone who has the gift of Faith, I know it’s not something a person “just has.” God gave me that gift; I can’t “demand” my husband just go and get some.

I think that sometimes people look at questioning in a negative light, but from someone who has been there, I don’t regret any of it. I have a deeper devotion to God than I ever had before, He has opened my eyes up to so many things.

You are doing the most important thing you could ever do, and that is to pray for him. Being there at one time, I would suggest not to aproach him on where he’s at. Let him come to you, and when he does share any insights that you may disagree with, just be there to listen, not to lecture him on why you think it’s wrong. Definetly don’t pull out the bible or scripture. Let God work. God has something great for him, I just know it. He’s going to open his eyes up to something that he wouldn’t have been able to see before.

I will pray for you!

I agree 100% with everything you’ve written above. Thank you for the encouragement that I’m doing the right thing! :hug3:

You know, I just thought of something… For the past few months, I’ve been praying that my DH truly becomes the spiritual head of the household. Perhaps this conversation DH and I had was a boost in that direction. I can only hope!