Calling all former Episcopalians

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My name is John and I am a recovering Episcopalian. I am about to be confirmed in the Catholic Church but am having a very hard time with the Masses in local Churches. One of the things i loved about Anglican worship was Ancient Catholic worship --a reverent Catholic way of worshiping preserved outside the Catholic Church. It seems strange to me that I need to become less Catholic in worship in order to become really Catholic. What can we former Anglicans do? Reverence and beauty are a BIG DEAL to us. I am not talking about entertainment --rather a desire for dignity, beauty, and reverence. I know you will say “stop belly aching and deal with it”,but I see that so many posting on these boards seem to be missing the same thing . Some times it is expressed as excitement over Eastern Catholic worship or the Tridentine Mass. Two questions:
  1. If you were Episcopalian , have you found an answer?
  2. Why are these virtues no longer important in most Parish Masses?
 
I am not Episcopalian, but I feel your pain on this! Many Catholics here are the same way as me…Unfourtunately the church is in a great reformation right now and there are some serious problems. There are of course many different things you can do:

-Try a Tridentine Mass (but stay away from the SSPX type schisms!) You can find some celebrated by the Preistly Fraternity of Saint Peter that are encouraged by our current Pope, may God bless him for that!
-Try a Byzantine Mass (ask around about this, someone told me that Latin rite Catholics are not suppose to attend, but that is not true from what I read…I’d encourage it, it’s different, but very nice!)
-Find a more conservative church in your area…and if it helps, become involved in Parish council or something to see if you can get to know the people in charge and the priest a little better…if you are nice and don’t talk down about his way of doing things, the priest may agree to bring more beauty into the service)…
-I have even found churches that celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass and still kneel for Holy Communion…this is always a beautiful thing!
Just some thoughts…hope it helps…
Take care!
 
Anglican Rite might interest you. They are episcopal churches that moved to Rome following the women’s ordination issue. There is one in San Antonio that I know of and a few others elsewhere. It is a valid rite, and uses the Book of Common Prayer.
 
I was nominally brought up a presbyterian and became a Christian in the Scottish Episcopal Church in a very high anglo catholic parish. Their liturgy was beautiful.

As a Catholic I attend a parish with a mass that uses incense, the faithfull are sensed and it is all done with a sense of reverence. We have benediction too.

When I go elsewhere the ‘atmosphere’ might not hit the same notes but the fact I will receive Christ in the sacrament more than makes up for a liturgy that is not quite to my taste.

Advice? Shop around, I’m sure there will be something out there that suits.
 
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JGC:
I was nominally brought up a presbyterian and became a Christian in the Scottish Episcopal Church in a very high anglo catholic parish. Their liturgy was beautiful.

As a Catholic I attend a parish with a mass that uses incense, the faithfull are sensed and it is all done with a sense of reverence. We have benediction too.

When I go elsewhere the ‘atmosphere’ might not hit the same notes but the fact I will receive Christ in the sacrament more than makes up for a liturgy that is not quite to my taste.

Advice? Shop around, I’m sure there will be something out there that suits.
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Thank you all for responding. One of my favorite C.S. Lewis quotes is in relation to Liturgy " The good shoe is the one you don’t notice" He goes on to say that innovations in worship ceremony cause us to have to think about worship and thinking about worship is very different from worshiping. Yes, the truly great thing is that Jesus is there but the things we do and don’t do should stop getting in the way --calling attention to themselves and not to God. When the Mass tells us to Sing and we don’t , a chance to praise God is missed and this interupts worship . If the Priest speaks in a half hearted way, this communicates lack of belief. all these things make us think about something other than God. --in any form of Liturgy.
 
Honestly, I would hit the parishes in your area and look for the one that is the most orthodox and liturgically sound. We have a few in our diocese and one of them has a TLM. You will have to visit a lot of churches but IMHO it is worth the effort.

In my experience churches with TLM tend to be orthodox and they don’t play around with the liturgy in their Novus Ordo masses as much as “Our Lady of Okayness” parishes tend to (to steal one from the Curt Jester) … like someone said above, avoid the SSPX churches. Use masstimes.org You cannot go wrong there.

Oh, one more thing … if available, visit the web sites of the churches first. They can be glaring red flags as to churches you shouldn’t even hop in the car to visit. Also, perpetual adoration is a good sign but I have been to very liberal parishes that have it.

Right now, I send my money and my time to my local parish because they are local (I happen to be in a good parish) but I go to mass in the parishes in town that have solid liturgy and beautiful worship when ever I can.
 
“Try a Byzantine Mass (ask around about this, someone told me that Latin rite Catholics are not suppose to attend, but that is not true from what I read…I’d encourage it, it’s different, but very nice!)”
  1. Its called the Divine Liturgy, not the Mass.
    2). Not true. You are encouraged to attend the Eastern Liturgies and if they are Catholic you may receive Holy Communion. The Pope told us to breath with both lungs. The Holy Father’s Mother was Ukranian Catholic.
Yes, I would recommend Eastern Catholic Churches, but these may prove too exotic for your taste. I would recommend an Anglican use Church. You may feel more at home there.
 
I was raised Episcoplaian, but with the recent homosexual take over in the church, I became a member of Presbyterian Church U.S.A a few months ago. ( I really fled heterodoxy, eh? 😛 )
However, I have been investigating The Church since last October and am now convinced it is the True Church. Despite a few stumbling blocks along the way, I’m now in the process of conversion and will be entering RCIA this September.
Man has an inborn desire for God, and will not rest until he finds God. Man seeks the heavenly, not the earthly. This is the reason we wish to see, hear, taste, touch, and feel something completely exotic and mysterious. This is a hard spiritual longing to please in a non-traditional service, and the reason many want a strong, ancient and reverent Mass.
I don’t attend a very traditional parish, not because I don’t seek tradition, but because it is what’s closest.
I have been convicted of The Truth of Christ’s Revelation being made fully manifest in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, and as thus, despite the less traditional worship, " stop belly aching and deal with it."
I think we should try and revive some of our customs (Latin, Chant, Traditional Hymns, etc… ).
People want to feel a bit of heaven on earth, so we should work try to make it so.
But let us remember, out off all things, what Mass is-- a prayer. And it is the continual sacrifice of our Most Holy, Blessed Lord in the Eucharist.
 
I grew up in the “high” Episcopal Church. We had all the robes and insense, etc. I loved the church, I still love my former parish. I am sick see how the liberals are forcing the Homosexual agenda.

I left for several years and when I did start to come back to the church…I saw Women priests. I did not return and found the Catholics.

The Catholic Church has stood it’s ground…
 
I’m a cradle Episcopalian – grew up smells and bells all the way – had a wonderful wedding there – full choir, incense, more Altar boys and clergy than wedding attendants – way cool! Then my husband really looked a what ECUSA stood for, and he was otta there! Dragged me with him, kicking and screaming, into Orthodoxy, where, amazingly, for the first time, I experienced the REAL PRESENCE, despite the language difference and foreign feel to the liturgy. And I came to truly love Orthodox worship. Recently, authority issues within the various jurisdictions of Orthodoxy caused us to discover what had been right there, under our noses, all along: the Catholic Church and the authority of the Chair of Peter.

So now I breathe with both lungs! I attend an Eastern Catholic Church on Sundays and the 12 Great Feasts and keep the Eastern customs re: fast days, etc., but I also love the stark simplicity of the early morning daily Mass at the Roman Rite church near my workplace (I work as a secretary at an Episcopal house of worship). If ever I were tempted to return to ECUSA, all I’d need to do is take a look at the bulletin or parish newsletter I type, or the issue of “Virtuosity” that arrives in my e-mail, and realize how very fortunate I am.

Go where the REAL PRESENCE is, and you’ll realize the smells and bells from your past are really only bells and whistles in comparison.
 
Khoria Anna:
Go where the REAL PRESENCE is, and you’ll realize the smells and bells from your past are really only bells and whistles in comparison.
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Fabulous! You really have a way with words.

Betsy
 
Just thought I’d add my two cents… this site seems to be a good source for all things related to the Anglican Use Mass. atonementonline.com/index.php I’m tempted to order the video… 😃

–I just noticed something. They get a ninefold Kyrie! That is soooooo not fair-- :getholy:
 
Mike C said:
“Try a Byzantine Mass (ask around about this, someone told me that Latin rite Catholics are not suppose to attend, but that is not true from what I read…I’d encourage it, it’s different, but very nice!)”
  1. Its called the Divine Liturgy, not the Mass.
    2). Not true. You are encouraged to attend the Eastern Liturgies and if they are Catholic you may receive Holy Communion. The Pope told us to breath with both lungs. The Holy Father’s Mother was Ukranian Catholic.
Yes, I would recommend Eastern Catholic Churches, but these may prove too exotic for your taste. I would recommend an Anglican use Church. You may feel more at home there.
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The Pope’s mother wasn’t a Ukrainian Catholic. She had Ukrainian blood but probably never attended a Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
 
Catholic Eagle:
The Pope’s mother wasn’t a Ukrainian Catholic. She had Ukrainian blood but probably never attended a Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
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I do not dispute what you say but it sounds like an opinion. Do you have a good reason to say this or is it just conjecture? In that part of the world for many generations the distinguishing characteristic of nationality was the church. I was told she was indeed a Ukrainian Greek Catholic, the custom is for the bride to follow the husband into his church.

Well, it is off-topic anyway and we have high-jacked the thread.

I am absolutely delighted that there are Anglicans exploring the church. I have always admired the liturgy and had for many years hoped to see an Anglican Use parish start around Chicago. I would still very much like to see that happen.

I am touched by the genuine devotion to Truth and the Magisterium I find here among former Episcopalians. I am sure the adjustments must be difficult. I hope more former Anglicans make themselves known here.

God Bless you all and my prayers go out for all Anglicans as they make their way through the rough seas.

In the Theotokos
 
John - I think if you can find a licit and valid Indult Tridentine Mass, you will find it is the liturgy you are looking for. If not, then try an Eastern Rite Divine Worship.

Someone suggested Anglican Rite but as far as I know unless you are in Texas, North Carolina or Boston, that will probably not work out.
 
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deogratias:
John - I think if you can find a licit and valid Indult Tridentine Mass, you will find it is the liturgy you are looking for. If not, then try an Eastern Rite Divine Worship.

Someone suggested Anglican Rite but as far as I know unless you are in Texas, North Carolina or Boston, that will probably not work out.
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Dear Deogratias
As it turns out I do live in Texas,
Not far from St. Marys in Arlington. I visited there once. They have a great Pastor in Fr. Hawkins . I may go back. The reason I hesitate is that for some reason it seems to not be very Anglican. It may be that like many Anglican Use folks they feel a need to fit in to the larger RC world and so tone down there distinctiveness? But I was thinking about going back anyway. Maybe i can help.
 
or maybe you can adjust - at least it is probably more anglican than the normative Masses are. I have personally never been to one but have spoken with a few people who have and most liked them except for the inclusive language - but you have that in the normative Masses anyway.

For myself I prefer the Tridentine Mass. I am glad we can all be Catholic and have the same faith in Mother Church and still have variety inliturgy.
 
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JohnCarroll:
Hello
My name is John and I am a recovering Episcopalian. I am about to be confirmed in the Catholic Church but am having a very hard time with the Masses in local Churches. One of the things i loved about Anglican worship was Ancient Catholic worship --a reverent Catholic way of worshiping preserved outside the Catholic Church. It seems strange to me that I need to become less Catholic in worship in order to become really Catholic. What can we former Anglicans do? Reverence and beauty are a BIG DEAL to us. I am not talking about entertainment --rather a desire for dignity, beauty, and reverence. Mass. Two questions:
  1. If you were Episcopalian , have you found an answer?
    QUOTE]
Hello John - I was an Anglican (37 years ago now!) and my local Anglican parish had a beautiful “reverent” liturgy that used to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end with awe! It’s still a good memory for me.
I had the same feeling of loss on becoming a Catholic that you describe - partly because when I became a Catholic the liturgy was in a state of flux after Vatican II and also because I felt the prayers of the Mass were sort of “gabbled” too hastily. But I think that was a hangover from the Latin.
I never doubted for a moment that the Catholic Church was the true Church, and SO many things compensated for my “sense-deprivation”. I never felt for a moment that I’d like to return to Anglicanism. Also, I never “shopped around” at the time to find a more pleasing celebration of the Mass, because I felt FOR ME - (no offence to anyone else) that that was a cop-out, and that God was trying to show me that He wanted me to go deeper than sense-satisfaction.
I have been in a lot of parishes down the years and have experienced many “reverently celebrated” Novus ordo Masses - never have been to a Tridentine one - and I no longer feel any desire for the Anglican liturgy. It now seems all show and beauty, but hollow.
BUT, it took me a long, long time to stop missing the way Anglicans celebrate(d) any liturgical service, so I feel for you!
Hang in there, and you’ll see how much you’ve gained, sooner or later!🙂
A Te numquam separari permittas - never let me be separated from You
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ATeNumquam:
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JohnCarroll:
Hello

Hello John - I was an Anglican (37 years ago now!) and my local Anglican parish had a beautiful “reverent” liturgy that used to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end with awe! It’s still a good memory for me.
I had the same feeling of loss on becoming a Catholic that you describe - partly because when I became a Catholic the liturgy was in a state of flux after Vatican II and also because I felt the prayers of the Mass were sort of “gabbled” too hastily. But I think that was a hangover from the Latin.
I never doubted for a moment that the Catholic Church was the true Church, and SO many things compensated for my “sense-deprivation”. I never felt for a moment that I’d like to return to Anglicanism. Also, I never “shopped around” at the time to find a more pleasing celebration of the Mass, because I felt FOR ME - (no offence to anyone else) that that was a cop-out, and that God was trying to show me that He wanted me to go deeper than sense-satisfaction.
I have been in a lot of parishes down the years and have experienced many “reverently celebrated” Novus ordo Masses - never have been to a Tridentine one - and I no longer feel any desire for the Anglican liturgy. It now seems all show and beauty, but hollow.
BUT, it took me a long, long time to stop missing the way Anglicans celebrate(d) any liturgical service, so I feel for you!
Hang in there, and you’ll see how much you’ve gained, sooner or later!🙂
A Te numquam separari permittas - never let me be separated from You
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Dear A Te numquam and others
Thanks for your good advice. Forgive my going further on the subject. One further advantage the Anglican Mass had was its ability to evangelize. I loved inviting Evangelicals on Sunday. They were almost always in tears by the end – to see God honored in such a way. Many stayed --one became a priest and the other a deacon. I don’t see that happening in my local Catholic parish- and they have an excellent faithful priest. I wonder if it is in part because the Catholics have to be there so why knock yourself out to accommodate them and the Anglicans wanted to be wooed. I’m told no one evangelizes less than either of these two groups. With some more effort in the Mass Catholics could snag quite a few .
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I found your mention of evangalization interesting. There was a priest who celebrated the TLM in Colorado Springs, an old priest and he has written for a couple of Catholic Journals and I really loved him, Fr. Rawley Myers.

Hardly a homily went by that he did not chastise us for not doing enough to “save souls”. He said it was all well and good to food the poor’s bodies but it was even more important that we feed their souls. It was also his observation that Catholics were notoriously “private” about their religion. He found it difficult to understand why we did not take more opportunities in our daily life to preach our faith and try to evangalize those around us.

I remember one thing he did, feeling so strongly about this, was take his own money and buy bunches of Holy Cards. He would leave them at the back of the Church and tell us to take as many as we wanted but that what he wanted us to do in return was to put one in any envelope we put into the mail, be it the phone bill, or personal letter or even he said when we get junk mail with a return envelope, just put in a holy card and mail it back.

His contention that we never knew what person who opened the envelope might be piqued to investigate more about the Catholic Church by this little gesture.

The Latin Mass Community would often take up collections to give to him because we were so grateful he took the time to celebrate the Mass for us (he was essentially retired) and he would just turn around and use it to pay for a tuition for some child to go to the Catholic High School who could not afford it. He was big on that too:)

Eventually we got FFSP priest there and Fr. Myers had to have a bypass and move to a nursing home I heard - but I bet he is evangalizing the cooks and housekeepers and everyone elses visitors to the day he dies.

God Bless you Father Rawley Myers
 
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