CALLING ALL NON_CATHOLICS --of the Protestant variety!!

[Daniel_Marsh]

if you think my list is incomplete then complete it.

you all are over blowing the minor doctrines.

I have been involved with many churches that did not think they are the only ones in heaven as the old joke goes.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

A Protestant-only thread on a Catholic forum?

Hi all,

Sorry I didnt mean it that way at all. I just want to know what the protestants on this forum believe. I dont go on any other forums.

I did not mean any disrespect to catholics. As catholics they cant really answer my question–that’s all. Unless of course they were formally protestants. I did not want this thread to turn into a debate just a fact finding mission.

I apologize

 

[Stephen_C]

Hi all,

Sorry I didnt mean it that way at all. I just want to know what the protestants on this forum believe. I dont go on any other forums.

I did not mean any disrespect to catholics. As catholics they cant really answer my question–that’s all. Unless of course they were formally protestants. I did not want this thread to turn into a debate just a fact finding mission.

I apologize

No need to apologize as you have done nothing wrong. Hopefully some of our non-Catholic/Protestant Brothers and Sisters will post here.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

No need to apologize as you have done nothing wrong. Hopefully some of our non-Catholic/Protestant Brothers and Sisters will post here.

Hi,
Thank you Stephen

 

[deb1]

Hi all,

Sorry I didnt mean it that way at all. I just want to know what the protestants on this forum believe. I dont go on any other forums.

I did not mean any disrespect to catholics. As catholics they cant really answer my question–that’s all. Unless of course they were formally protestants. I did not want this thread to turn into a debate just a fact finding mission.

I apologize

Many of the Catholics here are converts. That is why you get such passion for the Church. So, for those of us from Protestant backgrounds, we can answer based on our experience.

I think there is a mindset among diehard fundamentalists that anyone who disagrees with their church, even in tiny areas, is not a Christian. Those, sadly, are the most loudly vocal among Christians.

I went to one such church and it was awful. THe pastor honestly believed that Lutheran were probably not Christian! And he had serious doubts about Southern Baptist. It would have been funny if it wasn’t so sad.

 

[Katholikos]

Hi all,

I just want to know what the protestants on this forum believe.

When you know what the Protestants on this forum beleive, what will you know?

The Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura has a concomitant doctrine. Not only is Scripture (that is, not the original but Martin Luther’s cut version of it) the only rule for faith and morals, but each individual Protestant is to read and interpret the Scriptures for himself. Each Protestant is free to agree with the denomination to which he belongs, or to hold one or more conflicting views based upon his own interpretation of the Scriptures. How many interpretations are there? Well, how many Protestants are there?

If you want to know the various beliefs of particular Protestant denominations, you may go to their individual websites. Of course, not all the denominations have websites, but many of them do.

The number 33,820 comes from the World Christian Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 10. This was a statistical survey. That number is a pittance compared to the real number of Christian denominations worldwide. There are an estimated five new ones founded every week somewhere in the world, the legacy of Luther’s Sola Scriptura. .

Pax Christi, Katholikos

Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, now "ex-static to be Catholic!

 

[happygal]

But what does each church *mean *by Real Presence?

With all due respect, I think this poll is flawed because it does not take into consideration the following: Even if all 33,000 Protestant denominations could find 1,2,3,4 or more things in common the point is, even if it is one point of disagreement, it is enough to make them divide and make them prefer one church over the other. I can (kind of) understand becoming attached to a particular local congregation because of fellowship, but when a Lutheran moves to a new town, does he look for Baptist or Methodist or Assembly of God or Pentecostal or Episcopalian or Presbyterian churches – or vice versa? Why not? Because they are divided by doctrine. Not in 33,000 different ways, of course, but all it takes is one difference. Many (though not all) Protestant denominations have been born in exactly this way. So who’s right?

Fidelis

I understand that they have being so much debate about what each church mean about real presence. Ok example if i am a Born Catholic, yet does not understand the Eucharist about the real presence, then to me is just like i am eating a bread and drink wine that 's all…so it make not different for me even i already have Jesus body and blood in me. We still need to believe what Eucharist represent that it shall manifest in us and when pple embrace the body and blood of Jesus they will behave like our Lord, however they are those who partake just for the sake of partaking, there are Catholic who smoke/gamble…etc…Jesus don’t do that right…so it all bolt down your believe in the Holy Communion that it shall manifest in you. A humble and simple person will not see thing too complicating, and usually these group of pple are those who receive God’s liking. We are move by Holy spirit to believe that we develop our faith, so even protestant does not have a priest to consecrate the bread and wine, that does not mean there isn’t a real presence…

You do not have to be disappointed with the 33k denomination, we do not understand why God did not stop that, thing happened for a reason and till the reason being given, we just work on our faith, have a beautiful heart to see a beautiful God.

 

[a_cermak]

I belong to an Episcopal Church. I believe in the same 7 Sacraments as the Catholic Church. I believe that the Real Presence (body, blood, soul, divinity) is there in the Eucharist brought into being during the Consecration during Mass. I believe that we enter into the community via Baptism and that this Sacrament washes away the Original Sin (tendency to sin). I believe that Confirmation is when an adult choice is made to be a member of the Church. I believe that sins are forgiven via Confession. I believe 2 are made 1 during the Sacrament of Marriage. I believe the Sacrament of Holy Orders brings the blessings and graces of God down upon the one who receives it which makes them capable then of confecting the Eucharist. I believe Anointing of the Sick brings God’s healing power to those who are ailing. I believe that after death, we will be judged and that those who’ve led a blameless life will be sent to heaven to be with God, those that have lived a dark, sinful life will live without God and the rest will go to Purgatory to be purified of that they couldn’t loose during their life.

I don’t believe in Papal Infallibility. And I believe the Pope is first among equals, not Primate of the world.

 

[Fidelis]

Fidelis

I understand that they have being so much debate about what each church mean about real presence. Ok example if i am a Born Catholic, yet does not understand the Eucharist about the real presence, then to me is just like i am eating a bread and drink wine that 's all…so it make not different for me even i already have Jesus body and blood in me. We still need to believe what Eucharist represent that it shall manifest in us and when pple embrace the body and blood of Jesus they will behave like our Lord, however they are those who partake just for the sake of partaking, there are Catholic who smoke/gamble…etc…Jesus don’t do that right…so it all bolt down your believe in the Holy Communion that it shall manifest in you.

I think what you’re saying – and correct me if I’m wrong – is that if a Catholic does not understand or believe in the Eucharist, then the Eucharist is just bread and wine. Is that right?

If this is what you are saying, that is not correct. Catholics believe that Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist – Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity – is an objective reality; it is really Jesus whether the partaker believes it or not. Do you believe that?

Second, I think I hear you saying that the evidence of this is those Catholics that seem to live sinful lives really believed in the Real Presence, it would become Real and that would show in their lives, is that right?

Again, if this is what you are saying, that is not correct. As I said, the Real Presence is there whether the recipient believes it or not. However, if he is not properly disposed (if he is persisting in his sins or doesn’t really care if Jesus is there or not), then he will block the grace that he would otherwise recieve – grace that would otherwise help him change his life.

You can kind of compare it to the Bible. The Bible does not cease to be the Word of God just because after reading it someone wants to stay a sinner or not believe what it says, but objectively, it has the words to eternal life, if one would just repent and believe in the Gospel.

A humble and simple person will not see thing too complicating, and usually these group of pple are those who receive God’s liking. We are move by Holy spirit to believe that we develop our faith, so even protestant does not have a priest to consecrate the bread and wine, that does not mean there isn’t a real presence…

Again, that comes back to the main point, that Protestants cannot agree what is meant by “Real Presence.”

You do not have to be disappointed with the 33k denomination, we do not understand why God did not stop that, thing happened for a reason and till the reason being given, we just work on our faith, have a beautiful heart to see a beautiful God.

I’m not disappointed, little sister, because I didn’t create the problem, nor can I solve it by myself. But I can’t help thinking that God, our Father IS disappointed because of the scandal which it brings to those who do not know him.

[Jesus said] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. John 17:20-23

 

[glimmer]

Between Catholic and non-Catholic core beliefs, I feel as if life has become one giant Rubik’s cube and no one can get the colors lined up. Has it every occurred to anybody to just put all the ideas in a pile and offer them up to God? I think He is big enough to deal with it all.

Mic 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

 

[tigerlily]

Between Catholic and non-Catholic core beliefs, I feel as if life has become one giant Rubik’s cube and no one can get the colors lined up. Has it every occurred to anybody to just put all the ideas in a pile and offer them up to God? I think He is big enough to deal with it all.

Mic 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

that is what i’d hope for. my beliefs are so mixed up, sometimes i don’t know whether i’m coming or going but i always believe god exists. you just have to look out your window. he’s in every tree, flower and blue sky.

 

[glimmer]

There probably is an overriding correct answer to all these things, but meanwhile we get sidetracked on facets. I wonder if we have made God puny through all these ideas we get?–as if we are so big that everything depends on our getting it all right, instead of on the grace of God.

Jesus said, “I have come that you may have doctrines and have them more abundantly.” NOT! What have we all done to one another and to the Church-at-large for the past 500+ years? Perhaps there is a kernel of suspicion in us all that the other guy would see things right if his heart were right. But we cannot really tell, can we? And even if that were so, is there not a period between the appearance of the blossom on a tree and the bearing of fruit? And perhaps we are all too proud that we cannot accept that God looks first at the heart.

I hoped to make a case that over and above all our good intentions of being correct, that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. I don’t see any room there for pride that we are Catholic, Protestant or anything else. None of us has anything that we can offer God except what we first received of Him.

 

[happygal]

If this is what you are saying, that is not correct. Catholics believe that Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist – Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity – is an objective reality; it is really Jesus whether the partaker believes it or not. Do you believe that?

Sorry probably i did not get my wording right, as what i have mentioned one need to believes the Bread and Wine were consecrated into Body and Blood, else it is as good as just partaking a bread and wine. For example now if i decide to baptism myself as a catholic, i go for confession first then for Eucharist, however i am not open to believe about the real presence then it is as good as nothing!!! That is why i have mentioned, the communion is not just a act of just eating a bread and wine but is a deeper spiritual understanding and believes of it. Even though you as a Catholic deny our real presence, but i still believe my version of Holy Communion does have the real presence.

Second, I think I hear you saying that the evidence of this is those Catholics that seem to live sinful lives really believed in the Real Presence, it would become Real and that would show in their lives, is that right?

Again, if this is what you are saying, that is not correct. As I said, the Real Presence is there whether the recipient believes it or not. However, if he is not properly disposed (if he is persisting in his sins or doesn’t really care if Jesus is there or not), then he will block the grace that he would otherwise recieve – grace that would otherwise help him change his life.

No i am not asking about evident, coz they behaviour/personality will show others you are called a devoted Christian, this is the best evident (if we are talking about one)

You can kind of compare it to the Bible. The Bible does not cease to be the Word of God just because after reading it someone wants to stay a sinner or not believe what it says, but objectively, it has the words to eternal life, if one would just repent and believe in the Gospel.Again, that comes back to the main point, that Protestants cannot agree what is meant by “Real Presence.”

Compare to bible?? did i , sorry my bible knowledge is not strong so i cannot say i am doing a bible comparison… well for some protestant ( i would not say for all) since some of them do not believes in the real presence, i do not know whether you believe it anot i have a Catholic frez who shared with me that though skeptical about protestant practise, he just came for a normal Sunday service one fine day and to his surprise God gave him such a strong presence and peace that he weep the moment we started our worship…i was taken aback when he told me that coz to me Catholic does not believe in our practise then how would God move him in a protestant church, however God did his part and i was so happy about it…

I’m not disappointed, little sister, because I didn’t create the problem, nor can I solve it by myself. But I can’t help thinking that God, our Father IS disappointed because of the scandal which it brings to those who do not know him.

Well scandal happened for a reason and that was God’s plan i guess, eventually where it headed we don’t know, as what you have mentioned God is disappointed to those who did not know we may refer to some protestant i guess but most importantly my opinion is the unchurch…

 

[Katholikos]

if you think my list is incomplete then complete it.

you all are over blowing the minor doctrines.

The judgment about whether a doctrine is “major” or "minor " is purely subjective and varies by denomination. You’d get as many conflicting candidates for such a list as there are Protestant denominations, and that’s thousands.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I go to a Non-Denominational church here in WA. I don’t know about y’all but whenever I am talking with someone there are only two questions I need to know the answer to…

#1: Do you believe that Christ died on the Cross in place of you and me?

#2: Do you love God with all of your Heart, your Mind, and your Soul?

If the answer is ‘yes’ to both of these questions then I open my arms for a big ol’ hug from a brother or sister! Whether catholic or protestant makes no never mind to me. What you believe is between you and God Himself. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get into some spirited conversations…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I go to a Non-Denominational church here in WA. I don’t know about y’all but whenever I am talking with someone there are only two questions I need to know the answer to…

#1: Do you believe that Christ died on the Cross in place of you and me?

#2: Do you love God with all of your Heart, your Mind, and your Soul?

If the answer is ‘yes’ to both of these questions then I open my arms for a big ol’ hug from a brother or sister! Whether catholic or protestant makes no never mind to me. What you believe is between you and God Himself. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get into some spirited conversations…

Hi,
I like that do you mind if I steal that?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hi,
I like that do you mind if I steal that?

Steal away my friend! I promote Christian Unity… Unity in those who love Christ with all they are…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Steal away my friend! I promote Christian Unity… Unity in those who love Christ with all they are…

AMEN!!!

 

[Zooey]

I go to a Non-Denominational church here in WA. I don’t know about y’all but whenever I am talking with someone there are only two questions I need to know the answer to…

#1: Do you believe that Christ died on the Cross in place of you and me?

#2: Do you love God with all of your Heart, your Mind, and your Soul?

If the answer is ‘yes’ to both of these questions then I open my arms for a big ol’ hug from a brother or sister! Whether catholic or protestant makes no never mind to me. What you believe is between you and God Himself. But that doesn’t mean I don’t get into some spirited conversations…

 

[Syele]

When you know what the Protestants on this forum beleive, what will you know?

The Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura has a concomitant doctrine. Not only is Scripture (that is, not the original but Martin Luther’s cut version of it) the only rule for faith and morals, but each individual Protestant is to read and interpret the Scriptures for himself. Each Protestant is free to agree with the denomination to which he belongs, or to hold one or more conflicting views based upon his own interpretation of the Scriptures. How many interpretations are there? Well, how many Protestants are there?

If you want to know the various beliefs of particular Protestant denominations, you may go to their individual websites. Of course, not all the denominations have websites, but many of them do.

The number 33,820 comes from the World Christian Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 10. This was a statistical survey. That number is a pittance compared to the real number of Christian denominations worldwide. There are an estimated five new ones founded every week somewhere in the world, the legacy of Luther’s Sola Scriptura. .

Pax Christi, Katholikos

Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, now "ex-static to be Catholic!

That Encyclopedia got it from David Barrett’s study on denominations… including the number of new ones a year. If you insist on citing it you have to admit that Mr. Barrett Included 2,942 denominations within Catholicism in that number! (He wasn’t specifying Protestants only in the 23,000 number.)

Barrett Made any minor difference a new denomination (one church being in the US and one in Mexico = 2 denominations… even if everything else was exactly the same.) And when he did break it down by Catholic vs. Protestant…the only place where Catholcs got their favorite number of 1 was when he listed, Catholics =1, Protestants =1 before divinding each one up according to a myraid of criteria that shouldn’t even be considered when counting denminations as “seperate”.

For a better number to quote*, Encyclopedia of American Religions* lists 2,300 religious groups active in the United States. This includes Christians and Non-Christians, not only Protestants. Notice the total number for EVERYONE is considerably less than 33,000.

I’m still looking for a legitimate study that tell how many protestant denominations specifically. I have heard the United Nations publised number at approx. 1-2 thousand protestant denominations, but I can’t find a source for it.

Back to the topic at hand, (Sorry ALLFORHIM I went off on a tangent there…)

Here’s what I believe all protestants are going to have in common:

• The Bible is God’s Word and is authoritative.
• God = Trinity
• Jesus is both fully God and fully man.
• Humans are both spiritual and physical Beings and have all sinned against God. That sin has brought suffering and death to our world.
• Jesus Came to Earth to save us from our sin. He was born of a virgin, died for our sins, physically rose from the dead, and will one day return to judge the world and deliver His people.
• Justification by Grace though Faith (or sola fide in it’s proper understanding)
• Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are sacraments.
  
  I would not consider people who disagree with the above list to be protestant. So while other things my get argued over among protestants… these doctrines are the same.