(Emphasis mine)
I have never lived in the east either but we do see a difference between the churches which does date back to the east west division where the churches went their own way in developing doctrines. I am not anti everything that is from the west after the schism, but my only point in saying the things I said is that it is hopelessly optimistic to expect recommunion any time soon. Our difference are too profound.
What? :ehh:
Again, what?
And what answer is that? “Youth masses”? Again, what on earth are you talking about?
What does anything have to do with Rome?
Your post makes absolutely zero sense (actually, that holds for everything I’ve seen you post), and you seem to be determined to mix whatever Orthodoxy you claim to represent with Roman/Latin ideas because you think it will make things better. I haven’t the faintest idea why, but whatever the reason, it makes for pretty (ahem) interesting reading. I can’t for the life of me make sense of why you can’t be content in letting the Roman Catholic Church exist of its own merits and the Orthodox Church exist of its own merits (separately, as there are fundamental differences between them that are not political but instead theological, and neither side is budging on those), but whatever…you want to keep advocating for some sort of weird synthesis of disparate theologies, ecclesiologies, etc. in the name of “thinking of the children”, that’s your business…it’s highly curious (no, wait…annoying and ill-advised) that you should frame your post full of eccentric ideas with the words “we Orthodox”, though. We, my behind. Even if I were a Byzantine, I doubt I’d find any common ground with such an advocate of abandonment of Orthodox ecclesiology. Shame on you for giving the Romans false hope, and me an ulcer.
Well I cannot think of an Orthodox Christian who (while knowing what they are talking about) would deny such doctrines as the absolute authority of scripture, the canons and creeds of the councils and all the theology contained therein, the liturgical practices (Ie a common liturgy), feast days and times for fasting and other doctrines I am sure one can name if I were forced to be specific to the point you want.
You could start a thread on it … Although, personally, I’ve already heard it a ton of times.
I wasn’t referring to intercommunion but establishing certain teachings that can be available for us to use. The Church of Rome has a great variety of materials and tools that we could be using. You do not need to be in communion with a Church if you want to use their methods and tools. For instance the local Catholic parish here uses a program to teach Catholics the basics for a relationship with God that comes from the Protestant Churches. We have at our disposal rich resources that our Catholic brothers and sisters can share with us and I am sure they might like to see some of ours.
We are losing our children and youth because the parents of these children will not teach them the faith. It is primarily because of our methods in Orthodoxy that will not work towards a Western culture that demands something else. This something else actually will come from Rome. Our devotions within the Orthodox Church are not suited for the home. They are suited for the monastic life. Catholic devotions on the other hand are very suited for the home. The Catholic Church has given to their people an excellent program which the homes of the Laity will find easy, simple and yet fulfilling. This is what I meant when I said we are losing our young people. They need experiences of God both at the home level and at the Church level. When one of these is missing either the home experience or the Church experience you are going to lose these children. The Orthodox Church is great in giving the children the experiences of God in the Church but it becomes a no show within the context of their own homes. Here the Catholic Church will become a great help if we Orthodox will see that their devotions are specifically made for the homes. That is why Catholics tend to receive their experiences in God when they are young. It is usually in their homes because the Catholic Church does not yet give experiences to infants and younger children within the context of their Church services and here I am referring to the Mass. Unless there is uniformity of experiences in both places, Church and home you are going to lose these people.
The Orthodox hold dear to the Canon laws which had given them the Nicene Creed. Rome had accepted this until they decided to change part of the Creed without consulting the East. This is why the East will object to Rome’s claim with this additional part of the Creed. Perhaps someday this will all iron out since you are right about using a Trinitarian formula explaining the function of each Person within the Trinity. If the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as it was stated in the original creed than what is the relationship of the Son to this. It seems we are missing someone. There has to be all three Person connected to this since all Three have the same nature. One could also say in the other part of the creed when the Son is begotten eternally from the Father, what is the relationship with the Holy Spirit in all of this? Perhaps we need to get together to finally complete this interpretation of what is in within the Trinity.This issue has come up a bunch in this thread. The Filioque. It appears a very sore point to the Orthodox.
Why?
If the west proclaims God is one in a mysterious Trinitarian form, why the vehement objection to describing the Holy Spirit of God as a Spirit that flows from Gods very nature if love?
So perhaps this de rails or at least steers a slightly different way the thread, but I am the OP so it’s ok right?
I agree with the majority of what you said. That being said, It does seems to me that there is the cultural difference that if nothing else from a nationalistic standpoint is little understood. I do think that there are very much a difference in thinking and how one approaches those differences. While I think also that there is still IMHO distrust of the East, it goes also for the West. Language plays a big part as if one does not understand the others language there is misunderstandings of what the others say and mean. This was true in the past that I wrote about and afterwards when in 419 or so the East and West became two different empires, whereby language arts, culture, science, and the like stopped flowing both ways, till the 1400’s. As for Religion we do have major differences in how we interpret it and in how we believe. Naturally it does need to be worked out in some way that is satisfactory to both sides which it seems to me will take a long time at least for now.
I agree with you that this will take time. Contacts are very important so that we can come to a better understanding of each other. Perhaps this is why it is taking so long because the older generations have made up their minds what goes so that it will take a younger generation to find out for themselves once they become better informed. With the technology we have now at our disposal a better informed newer generation will come to accomplish what we could not do.
I think you are on to something because in trying to understand the Trinity it is still and will always be a mystery and will never be in human terms be explained or understood completely.
I for one think you are making some very fine points in your posts and I agree with you on that. However, I will say that the Western culture while some of it is good, a lot of it is not. But then again every culture has its good and bad points. I think also that the West ; Catholic Church can learn much from the Orthodox. It seems t me that we Catholic’s are also losing our young to the secular cultures and are not being taught as they should. So it seems to me that we both have much to learn from each other and to look at the good we have and use that in finding ways to over come the differences we do have.
That is very true and thank you for your comment. I do not have any idea what proceeding or begotten means from an eternal perspective so you are right it is mystery indeed.
Yes that is very true. We will gain much. Again thank you for your comments. I teach a bit to the altar boys at my Orthodox Church and had given them as a resource to pray the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy. They really enjoy the simplicity of this devotion and because the Divine Mercy devotions are simple and easy to maintain it can be done at anyplace and especially at their homes.
You are welcome and I meant what I said about your posts. I do not know anymore then anyone else but I am thinking that proceeding means from, and begotten means it comes from without being created because it is of the same substance. So The Son is begotten from the Father being of the same nature and substance and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or comes from the Father but also from the Son since they are both of the same substance so then the Holy Spirit much be of and from the same substance as the Father. Does that make any sense to you or not. I may have gotten it wrong in explaining it as I an not a theologian by any means. So no matter how it is said or thought it will always be a mystery to us as no one know God as God knows Himself.
This is a False Statement as the need for Baptism for the remission of sin is Biblical and Apostolic its in the Creed. Yet its taught in your Church and is a accepted belief in circles this isn’t so. And its “taught” and by priests, are you saying they don’t know what they are talking about?
And you can see why directly above and by my other post in regard. There’s no need for me to continue to repeat myself.
I understand, and I know many Orthodox, Catholic’s and Protestants who indeed get this and its a Gospel and Church teaching. In fact its no better exemplified than by St Paul in yesterdays mass.
This may go without saying, but let me say it regardless … I’m sure no one denies that we Catholics (or, more specifically, Vatican I) make that claim, but that does not mean that the Orthodox accept that claim.