Calling all traditional-minded Catholics, please refute this film!

  • Thread starter Thread starter JSmitty2005
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Church Militant:
BTW, if you are so faithful a Catholic, why does your webpage tell your astrological sign since the church discourages such things?
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I actually tried to get rid of that some time ago. I think that they automatically do that when you tell them your age (which is required).
 
Church Militant, Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy, and learn reading your posts. Thank you for all the time you give here in “putting” things straight. God Bless you and the work you do.
 
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maryj:
Church Militant, Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy, and learn reading your posts. Thank you for all the time you give here in “putting” things straight. God Bless you and the work you do.
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:o (Luke 17:9-10) “9 Doth he thank that servant, for doing the things which he commanded him? 10 I think not. So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do.”
 
I thought it was a well done movie. I think they did a good job of mixing the facts and data with their own opinions to produce a solid and original film. Some of the things like Communion in the hand are not the evil thing they make it out to be and it actually hurts their cause to bring it up.

One important thing to also note is that those sickening examples of desecration by some very liberal priests is not the norm and should be put into perspective. Yes such events do occur, but the film should stop at the proof that they do occur but also note that they are not legal nor the norm. I personally have not seen such sickening events or heard of them happening near where I live.

On the other hand, certian things like reduction in Catholic art and architechture is a sad loss and has hurt all Catholics. However, only new generation of Michaelangelos can fix it which will only come when God decides. Other things like a general sense of respect during Mass has vanished and that I personally feel correction and a return to respect will only come about after the liberals of the 60’s generation have died. It is very clear that there is a new sense of urgency in this generation to restore what has been downgraded and abused and return it back to its highest levels of honor and respect.

I dont know about others around here, but Im drooling to see sweeping changes with a solid line of Catholics behind it. I want to see the highest respect during Mass and nothing less.

Overall that movie is very correct, there is a serious problem that has perverted a lot of the Catholic faith and that needs to be corrected. At the same time openly attacking the pope and trying to do it all by one self is not the way to go, it will have to come in its time when God decides.
 
I saw about half of the video and is my opinion that they are equating a change in tradition to a change in Tradition … WRONG.

Some things they mentioned/showed

Pope with a bent cross. Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t it suppose to symbolise Christ carrying the weight of our sins…hence the bending. How is that taking away anything!

Tabernacle at side of the Church. I am originally from Mexico and most of the old (pre-Vatican2) churches specially the very old 1600-1700 churches had the tabernacle at the side. Church architecture was in the shape of the cross (aerial view) and either the left or right “wing” had the tabernacle in it. So this concept has nothing to do with being “modern”

Teenage dress code - Although modesty must be enforced so must be patience in our part. All Churches ought to have sign saying “You have problems? Great you’ll fit right in!”… we are all sinners and hence in the same boat. (However we must also have a desire for better and for Christ)

Laity standing around the altar. I believe that is no longer allowed (we use to do it in our parish). However when I think how in scripture the apostles got rebuked by Jesus for not allowing the children(and we are all God’s children) get close to him, it does not really make sense. After all Eucharist=Jesus. Jesus is God so we need to be reverent but Jesus is man hence an even greater invitation for interaction. Here I think is a case of upholding a both/and rather either/or.

Receiving the eucharist in our hands. Standard here in Australia. And at the end the Eucharist touches your tongue, throat stomach, gut and comes out at the other end. Holding the Host in our hands is as reverent as holding the child Jesus in our arms.

Architecture change…First we do not need as much symbolism…the big reason laity now days can read! (Not that I don’t like old style architecture…its great). Also to construct something like that would require a lot of $$$. So there are practical reasons for this.

At the end I believe the issue is one of fear of change. If one were to look at the history as a whole we would see how tradition (small “t”) has always been changing.

The objective of "t"radition is to assist in promulgating "T"radition (oral and written [incuding Scripture]). When there are changes in thinking, culture etc "t"radition must change so that the reality of "T"radition is maintained constant in the minds and hearts of the people it is intended for.

Well that is what I think.

God bless,

Alex
 
I can sympathize with some of the arguments made here by these traditionalists, but they go too far and hurt their own cause by bashing the Holy Father. I am taking a liturgy class and one thing that we studied is how previous popes made changes to the way the mass was celebrated. This has happend many times before Vatican II.
 
Okay, I don’t like many of the new church buildings, either. Sometimes you have to go outside and re-check the sign to make sure it says “Catholic.”
And yes, there were abuses, but VII never ordered removal of Communion rails or statuary, etc. And boy, I do like chant.
But did you catch it? Did you see the deception?
All of the “crazy Mass” shots were of the same Mass with the same priest.
All the allegations about the sinsiter doings of VII were general. No names, no specific documents were mentioned.
As I just wrote in another thread, there is always confusion and abuse after a Church council. But things are getting better and they will continue to do so.
If you believe this is Jesus’ Church, remain faithful to the Magesterium, point out and correct abuse when you see it and hang in. Good things are happening. and not by the folks who made this film.
 
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Strider:
As I just wrote in another thread, there is always confusion and abuse after a Church council. But things are getting better and they will continue to do so.
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Yep, which is why God gave us Benedict XVI to clear up the mess. God bless John Paul the Great, but I’m not sure if he was that great of a leader (as far as Church administration goes. we can thank him for giving us the Catechism though). He sure did a lot of good for the Church and suffered a lot for it, but there is definitely a lot he could have done for the American church. Sometimes I think the American church gets away with too much because we are the biggest donaters to the Vatican.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Please watch the entire thing before passing judgement, it doesn’t help me any if all you do is make general statements.
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How ironic. I watched the whole thing and thought IT was a general statement.

Can you provide for me what the specific polemic is? If the polemic is that there exists liturgical abuse in the Church, errrrrr…OK. But what is their point?
 
No refutation necessary, as none of the illicit liturgical practices occur in my parish. 😉
 
I think that the film gives a few good reasons (and there are more reasons than mentioned in the film) why many Catholics are attending the Traditional Latin Mass at SSPX.
 
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Kirane:
I think that the film gives a few good reasons (and there are more reasons than mentioned in the film) why many Catholics are attending the Traditional Latin Mass at SSPX.
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There is never a good reason to disobey Holy Mother Church and turn to schismatics.
 
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Lazerlike42:
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Kirane:
I think that the film gives a few good reasons (and there are more reasons than mentioned in the film) why many Catholics are attending the Traditional Latin Mass at SSPX.
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There is never a good reason to disobey Holy Mother Church and turn to schismatics.
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I agree with you both.
 
I have deleted the film from the original link in fear that a Catholic with weak faith may be persuaded by it. You can find it at the link in post #11.
 
Smitty,
I’d like to watch the film but I don’t want to join your site. How can I do this?

KK
 
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