Calling the RCC just "Roman Church"

[Episcopalian]

Long story short, I was raised Catholic and converted to Episcopalian a year or two ago. I have a few friends in my new Church who often call the Catholic Church the Roman Church. Enough where it’s clearly noticable.

It sounds weird to me to call it anything else aside from Catholic Church! So my question:

For fellow non-catholic forum members, do you this as well? What’s the meaning behind it? Did I miss out on this Protestant standard of reference since I grew up Catholic?

For Catholic forum members, what’s you’re take on it? Can the RCC be called the Roman Church and the Catholic Church equally? I never knew, if so!

 

[porthos11]

Long story short, I was raised Catholic and converted to Episcopalian a year or two ago. I have a few friends in my new Church who often call the Catholic Church the Roman Church. Enough where it’s clearly noticable.

It sounds weird to me to call it anything else aside from Catholic Church! So my question:

For fellow non-catholic forum members, do you this as well? What’s the meaning behind it? Did I miss out on this Protestant standard of reference since I grew up Catholic?

For Catholic forum members, what’s you’re take on it? Can the RCC be called the Roman Church and the Catholic Church equally? I never knew, if so!

No, the two are not equal but there IS a Roman Church. The Roman Church is the Holy See, the Diocese of Rome, over which the Pope is Bishop. It is a particular diocese of the wider Latin church, which is one of 24 self-governing churches within the universal Catholic Church.

You’ll get dirty looks if you dare call a Ukrainian Catholic a member of the Roman Church. And yet such a person will be every bit as Catholic as his Roman (Latin) Catholic neighbour.

 

[BartholomewB]

Some Anglicans and Episcopalians, like some Greek Orthodox and others, argue that they, too, are Catholics and that it is therefore incorrect to use the term “Catholic” as though it designated the Roman Catholic Church alone. So when your Episcopalian friends talk about “the Roman church” they are not being disrespectful, they are just being careful to avoid what they see as an implied disrespect to their own church.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Those who are members of, or respectful of, the RCC call it either the “Roman Catholic Church” or the “Latin Church/ Latin Catholic Church” or sometimes the “Western Church” if distinguishing from the Eastern Catholic Church.

“Roman Church” is typically a term used by Protestants and typically is considered not very nice, about on the same level as “Papists”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some Anglicans and Episcopalians, like some Greek Orthodox and others, argue that they, too, are Catholics and that it is therefore incorrect to use the term “Catholic” as though it designated the Roman Catholic Church alone. So when your Episcopalian friends talk about “the Roman church” they are not being disrespectful, they are just being careful to avoid what they see as an implied disrespect to their own church.

Unfortunately, many of us Roman Catholics who’ve had negative interactions with Anglicans and Episcopalians at some point in our recent family trees see them leaving out the word “Catholic” as implying disrespect and would likely correct such a speaker.

 

[FOG]

Regardless of what the Church is called or referred to by others, if it is done with no malice, its not a hill worth dying on.

Disclaimer – I am expressing my opinion and not looking for validaiton or argument, so I limit my (name removed by moderator)ut to a single post per thread. Send me a PM, and I will be happy to continue the discussion without monopolizing this fine venue.

 

[BartholomewB]

Well yes, you can “correct” them if you want to, but you need to be ready for them to “correct” you in their turn.

 

[HopkinsReb]

I’m an Anglo-Catholic.

I tend to refer to it as the Roman Catholic Church when I’m speaking to someone who isn’t a fan of it (to avoid immediately sparking an argument about what constitutes catholicity). But in my head and when talking to folks who are in or who like the RCC, I tend to just refer to it as the Catholic Church.

Calling it the Roman Church is almost always an attempt to denigrate it by implying that it’s just this weird thing that sprung up out of Rome. I have a friend who refers to Anglo-Catholics as “Roman LARPers.”

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Which is why it’s generally just easier for us to completely avoid each other.

If you want to build bridges, a good start is to call people what they call themselves, not some name you make up for them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Calling it the Roman Church is almost always an attempt to denigrate it by implying that it’s just this weird thing that sprung up out of Rome.

Thank you for confirming that. That’s always been my impression too.

I’ve also heard the term “Roman Church” coming out of American Evangelicals. The impression given is that the Pope in Rome is some big Godfather-type foreign religious dictator, plotting weird stuff in the Vatican basement and telling us every move to make.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

Calling it the Roman Church is almost always an attempt to denigrate it by implying that it’s just this weird thing that sprung up out of Rome.

Thank you for confirming that. That’s always been my impression too.

I’ve also heard the term “Roman Church” coming out of American Evangelicals. The impression given is that the Pope in Rome is some big Godfather-type foreign religious dictator, plotting weird stuff in the Vatican basement and telling us every move to make.

Well, you know the Pope does have a computer with the names of all Protestants for future repressions, or so I’m told.

If you look way back in CoE writings during its more Reformed periods, the word “Romish” is used a lot. Rejection of the “Romish doctrine of purgatory” and such.

 

[JohnStrachan]

I simply refer to the “Catholic” church as the “Roman Catholic” church. I never made this distinction when I identified as Catholic, but as an Anglican I now qualify out of respect to those Anglicans/Episcopalians who view Anglo-Catholic and Catholic as synonymous. I do note on census forms that - in Canada at least - they simply say Catholic, but this would not capture Anglican-Catholics or those in communion with Rome who were Anglican at one time. I don’t believe that using the term Roman Catholic is offensive.

 

[1ke]

What’s the meaning behind it?

The term “Roman” either in front of “Catholic Church” or in place of “Catholic” started as a pejorative within the Anglican church. The use of the term “Roman”, “Papist”, “pope-ish” etc, were all derogatory.

In English speaking countries influenced by the Anglican Church (such as the US) you will see Catholics refer to themselves this way, as this term has become ingrained culturally. In most cases it has a less derogatory connotation in modern times.

The correct way to refer to the Church is the Catholic Church, and if referring to a particular rite it is the Latin Rite (not the Roman Rite) or whatever Rite-- Byzantine, Maronite, etc.

 

[porthos11]

The correct way to refer to the Church is the Catholic Church, and if referring to a particular rite it is the Latin Rite (not the Roman Rite) or whatever Rite-- Byzantine, Maronite, etc.

Latin church.
Roman rite

There is no “Latin Rite”. There are Latin rites (plural), but we are members of the Latin church who happen to use the Roman Rite. There are other Latin Catholics who use other Latin rites, such as the Ambrosian Rite in Milan.

The Holy Roman Church is a subset of the worldwide Latin church, and refers specifically to the Diocese of Rome. Cardinals are created Cardinals of the Holy Roman church, not the Holy Latin Church or the Holy Catholic Church, because Cardinals used to be, and are still titularly, clergy of the Diocese of Rome.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t believe that using the term Roman Catholic is offensive.

It’s not. We’re all fine with “Roman Catholic”.
“Roman Church” without the “Catholic”, or “Romish” as an adjective, are offensive.

For my part, I have not complained about “Anglo -Catholic” but I have had to be aware that it exists because Roman Catholics cannot satisfy Mass obligations, etc. there. There are a number of churches that have “Catholic” in the name but are not part of the Catholic Church as we know it, such as the “Old Roman Catholic Church” (a schismatic church dating to the 1600s) and the “Polish National Catholic Church”.

 

[BartholomewB]

If you look way back in CoE writings during its more Reformed periods, the word “Romish” is used a lot. Rejection of the “Romish doctrine of purgatory” and such.

Yes, “Romish” certainly is intended as a pejorative term, on a level with “Popish” and “Papist”. “The Roman church” is not like that, I think. It’s more neutral, neither approving nor disapproving. I have twice been corrected, once by an Anglican clergyman in England and years later by a Greek Orthodox priest in Israel, for using the term “Catholic” in the exclusive sense, which they see as a usurpation of their right to be included in that category.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have twice been corrected, once by an Anglican clergyman in England and years later by a Greek Orthodox priest in Israel, for using the term “Catholic” in the exclusive sense, which they see as a usurpation of their right to be included in that category.

When the popular culture uses the words “Catholic Church”, they aren’t referring to Anglicans or Greek Orthodox either.
Sorry but that’s just the way it is.

 

[GKMotley]

I spent a lot of posts and lots of references, many years ago, to dissuade a 5 point Calvinist from using “Romish” or "Popish, instead of the RCC. Finally won that exchange.

 

[HopkinsReb]

BartholomewB:

I have twice been corrected, once by an Anglican clergyman in England and years later by a Greek Orthodox priest in Israel, for using the term “Catholic” in the exclusive sense, which they see as a usurpation of their right to be included in that category.

When the popular culture uses the words “Catholic Church”, they aren’t referring to Anglicans or Greek Orthodox either.
Sorry but that’s just the way it is.

@GKMotley right now

 

[BartholomewB]

Sometimes on comments threads – though not yet here at CAF – I proclaim myself a “Romish Popish Papist.” It takes the wind out of their sails.