Calvary Chapel: What do you know about it?

[Catholic_Dude]

I decided to look into the Protestant denomination called “Calvary Chapel”. I started off going to its official web page and I located the “history” section.
Here are some facts:

-began in 1965 in Costa Mesa, California

-Calvary Chapel’s pastor, Chuck Smith became a leading figure in what has become known as the “Jesus Movement.”

-moved from our original building (one of the first church buildings in Costa Mesa) to a rented Lutheran church overlooking the Pacific. Soon thereafter … move the church to a school that we had bought. The building did not match up to code so we tore it down and built another. But by the time the sanctuary of 330 seats was completed in 1969, we were already forced to go to two services … Soon after buying the land, we again did the unprecedented and erected a giant circus tent that could seat 1,600 at a stretch. This was soon enlarged to hold 2,000 seats.

-Today…the church which only had twenty-five members has established more than five hundred affiliate Calvary Chapels across the world and is among the world’s largest churches with more than thirty-five thousand calling it their home church. It is one of the ten largest Protestant churches in the United States.

This is nothing more than a 40 year old start-up denomination. It is amazing how things with no historical roots can take off so quickly. From what I have read it took off because of its position on the End Times and its style of worship (contemporary music).

I found a page of doctrines and theological positions which I will look at later. From what I did look into they appear to reject Calvinism and hold strong views on the End Times.

What are your thoughts?

 

[earlyecumenical]

:coffeeread: If you want to know about that particular movement I would recommend you get sociological and historical information on Amee Simple McPherson ( I would not suggest you get any of the information from off the Web) With that you can see what it is that “Chuck Smith” of Costa Mesa, California came out of. I would add Chuck Smith is a fundementalist christian – Protestant He comes out of a Charismatic background (with adoption of certain beliefs typical of those held by Pentecostal Christians). His preaching kinda reminds you, in some intangible sense,of the very early Methodists.Pastor Chuck Smith is pretty boring fair (comparing w/ the colourful background of Amee) There is a interesting sociological interest family and faith are almost ‘catholic’ in view of the family(e.g. -Marriage is for raising a family) Please contact me via the board for extra information. I disavow anything that might be incorrect (of course)
My first hand experience with this movement is very dated (over eighteen yrs.) In all that time, quickly, that would include both fellowship and hearing his preaching If you need more information I would be happy to help(more than happy.).

 

[rosebudsal]

In my experience, lots of Ex-Catholics are members, it’s bible based and wow… only 40 years. I had no idea. 18 years ago when I was in college two of my sorority sisters wanted me to go with them to worship there (they were also raised Catholic) but I wasn’t comfortable going to a different church then. I’m still not. I may have been away from the church for a while, I’ve always known that Catholicism was the only religion for me. But that’s another thread.

They call themselves non-denominational Christians and welcome everyone into their fold. I know a lot of people who attend services there and they seem to range from right wing, staunchly conservative Republicans, to middle of the road, to moderately liberal people politically. So I don’t know if there is a particular profile of its members. I don’t really know much else about them, but they are growing fast and are spreading everywhere. Two years ago I took a trip with a friend to San Diego and as we went through Phoenix I noticed they have a huge building along the Interstate. I didn’t realize it was a national “chain”. (Yes, that’s a bit tacky way to describe it, but I couldn’t think of any other way to articulate it.) I thought it was just a local thing, but I guess it’s everywhere.

Adherents has more info and statistics.

 

[Pacbox]

If you search this forum for Calvary Chapel, there are few threads that have dealt with this in the past. I’ll look for a few for you.

They are heavy into Rapture and End Times theology. They are big Dispensationalists. In their worship service, they do a verse by verse study of the Bible. They put huge emphasis on music in their worship as well. Basically, worship is singing and study.

The individual pastors can run from pretty anti-Catholic (my experience) to Catholics are Christian. Their theology is pretty anti-Catholic and even anti-mainline Protestantism (basically everyone but them has it wrong/only their definition of salvation and who is saved counts) though the individual pastors will vary in their emphasis of this (you can see this in Chuck Smith’s online book about Revelation and his interpretation of the chapters that refer to the seven churches). They do, depending on the individual pastor, go out of their way to convert Catholics to their denomination (and they are a denomination though they argue otherwise, they have a “leadership” of sorts and they look to Chuck Smith for everything).

 

[Pacbox]

Here’s one thread about converts from Calvary Chapel:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=12069&highlight=Calvary+Chapel

 

[Catholic_Dude]

If you search this forum for Calvary Chapel, there are few threads that have dealt with this in the past. I’ll look for a few for you.

They are heavy into Rapture and End Times theology. They are big Dispensationalists. In their worship service, they do a verse by verse study of the Bible. They put huge emphasis on music in their worship as well. Basically, worship is singing and study.

The individual pastors can run from pretty anti-Catholic (my experience) to Catholics are Christian. Their theology is pretty anti-Catholic and even anti-mainline Protestantism (basically everyone but them has it wrong/only their definition of salvation and who is saved counts) though the individual pastors will vary in their emphasis of this (you can see this in Chuck Smith’s online book about Revelation and his interpretation of the chapters that refer to the seven churches). They do, depending on the individual pastor, go out of their way to convert Catholics to their denomination (and they are a denomination though they argue otherwise, they have a “leadership” of sorts and they look to Chuck Smith for everything).

The “gospel message” I saw on their web page was the typical quickie “Jesus as my Lord and Savior Prayer” but I couldnt tell if they were OSAS though.

As for the “non-denomination” line, the fact is that is a denomination. Im not sure about how the leadership is structures, but it would be interesting to see what happens should Smith pass away.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Here’s one thread about converts from Calvary Chapel:
forums.catholc.com/showthread.php?t=12069&highlight=Calvary+Chapel

Thanks for the heads up. I find their Bible study method interesting “book by book and verse by verse” though I wonder how in depth they actually get. Also on their webpage there appeared to be a lot of “freedom” in regards to doctrine and didnt mind as long as you joined, though Im not sure how strict they actually are.

 

[Subrosa]

In my experience, lots of Ex-Catholics are members, it’s bible based and wow… only 40 years. I had no idea. 18 years ago when I was in college two of my sorority sisters wanted me to go with them to worship there (they were also raised Catholic) but I wasn’t comfortable going to a different church then. I’m still not. I may have been away from the church for a while, I’ve always known that Catholicism was the only religion for me. But that’s another thread.

I agree, Rosebud, the Catholic Church is the only Church for me.

I recently joined the Legion of Mary where we do door-to-door evangelizing. However, we are not there to proslityse, so we respect other’s religious traditions. However, the woman I am training with takes very seriously people who have left the Church. She plainly asks them, “Do you know what you have given up?” Most of the time they don’t know how to respond. Then she tells them of the Eucharist and tells them to read John chapter 6.

It is a friendly and loving challenge that is meant to plant a seed.

Subrosa

 

[Pacbox]

The “gospel message” I saw on their web page was the typical quickie “Jesus as my Lord and Savior Prayer” but I couldnt tell if they were OSAS though.

As for the “non-denomination” line, the fact is that is a denomination. Im not sure about how the leadership is structures, but it would be interesting to see what happens should Smith pass away.

From my experience (I did a Bible study with a group of them because two of the members were a former college roomate and her husband), they believe they are saved by grace but some don’t believe or understand Calvinism. They say they don’t subscribe to Calvinism but some pastors do. So, I would say they preach OSAS without understanding Calvinism, in some cases. They do believe that only their understanding how to be saved in the only way to be saved.

In reading several blogs by CC pastors, some don’t care that Smith will be passing on because they don’t have the structure of a denomination and so can do whatever they please. Others do care because they have put him up on a pedastal and follow every dot and jot he says and writes. The pastors themselves tend to move around quite frequently and new pastors come out after being a part of the church for a few years and start a new church some place else.

They are a denomination because they subscribe to the same beliefs, support specific causes, support a “leadership” of sorts that makes decisions in regards to doctrines they believe, the pastors do, for the most part, follow the party line. They just don’t have the accountability factor so that if one pastor does something or teaches something not strictly in line with the denomination, they can’t easily be removed. It does happen but it’s done by those at the local level, the members of the church.

 

[Pacbox]

Thanks for the heads up. I find their Bible study method interesting “book by book and verse by verse” though I wonder how in depth they actually get. Also on their webpage there appeared to be a lot of “freedom” in regards to doctrine and didnt mind as long as you joined, though Im not sure how strict they actually are.

It’s entirely the pastor’s interpretation. If the particular church doesn’t hold to the distinctives, they are pretty picky about those, especially anything having to do with the rapture and dispensationalism. Otherwise, it’s the pastor’s interpretation. Though, in reading several pastors’ blogs, they do try to teach the same interpretation though they’ll go to some great gymnastic lengths to make things fit their interpretation.

I just read a blog about how the only interpretation of the beginning of Genesis could only be read as literally 6000 year old earth created by God in literally 6 days and to think otherwise was calling God a liar. The pastor said this was the literal sense and the only way to read this passage. Even if science could prove the earth was 10,000 years old that would be wrong because the earth could only be 6000 and so that 10,000 figure would make God a liar even if God said the earth was that age. Personally, I would like to see their explanation for the Grand Canyon and the state of Hawaii.

Personally, I like the Catholic Church’s view: believe that God created the world and people, the exact date is a minor detail. Basically, it’s okay to believe in creation and evolution. And it’s impolite to ask a planet its age.

 

[dparker]

Though I don’t attend a Calvary Chapel, I go way back with them and my sister’s family attends a huge one in San Diego.

Chuck Smith was a Foursquare pastor that was fed up with church politics, legalism, and narrow mindedness. He invited the hippies into his little church and shared Jesus with them. Was one of the principal beginnings of the Jesus People Movement. Many of them were musicians and rockers. They naturally combined their talents with their new faith and Maranatha Music was born. Mustard Seed Faith and Love Song were a couple of the first groups.

They have always defined themselves as a movement…not a denomination. Chuck sees denominations as divisive and “part of the problem”. Only time will tell how the movement continues over time.

Though Chuck had a Pentecostal background, he distanced himself and Calvary from most Pentecostal practices. If fact, Yorba Linda Calvary Chapel and it’s pastor John Wimber, broke away and formed Vineyard Fellowship because they wanted to move in a more Pentecostal direction. Lonnie Frisbee, who helped Chuck start Calvary, also helped Wimber start Vineyard.

More info about Vineyard is here.

One interesting thing that sets Calvary Chapel apart from most all Evangelical churches is that they embrace an episcopal leadership model (Smith calls it the Moses Model) rather than the democratic church board model that most all others use.

 

[brosam]

I would add Chuck Smith is a fundementalist christian

Actually, he’s not. He’s charismatic.

 

[GerardPaul]

If you search this forum for Calvary Chapel, there are few threads that have dealt with this in the past. I’ll look for a few for you.

They are heavy into Rapture and End Times theology. They are big Dispensationalists. In their worship service, they do a verse by verse study of the Bible. They put huge emphasis on music in their worship as well. Basically, worship is singing and study.

The individual pastors can run from pretty anti-Catholic (my experience) to Catholics are Christian. Their theology is pretty anti-Catholic and even anti-mainline Protestantism (basically everyone but them has it wrong/only their definition of salvation and who is saved counts) though the individual pastors will vary in their emphasis of this (you can see this in Chuck Smith’s online book about Revelation and his interpretation of the chapters that refer to the seven churches). They do, depending on the individual pastor, go out of their way to convert Catholics to their denomination (and they are a denomination though they argue otherwise, they have a “leadership” of sorts and they look to Chuck Smith for everything).

I am a Catholic that had about a four year relationship with a CC member. His pastor was a ex-catholic and he thought he had all the answers to convert me. He started out attacking Catholic belief and I asked him if CC was anti-catholic. He showed me some info the helped me understand the group better. After I spent a lot of time defending the Catholic Chuch I asked him some hard questions about “Bible Alone”,“Faith Alone” and how “Bible Only” don’t always fallow the Bible but he never answered my questions. I e-mailed his pastor about it and he refused to answer me also.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I have a good friend who is an EX-nominal Catholic who is a member of Calvary Chapel down here in South Florida.
The people tend to be very nice, sincere folk.
However, their congregations do sometimes “split” over
petty personal differences (the Miami Beach congregation split over personality issues).

Fundamentalist? Pretty much, but not extremely so.
The ones I’ve met didn’t put me down for being a Catholic.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[dosdog]

Documentary of a Hippie Preacher
A documentary about Lonnie Frisbee, a key figure in the Jesus Movement and the growth of Calvary Chapel, is making the rounds at film festivals. We talked to the director about Frisbee, who died of AIDS in 1993.
christianitytoday.com/movies/interviews/daviddisabatino.html

OK! You are talking about Jesus Rock is that right?

I mentioned a church earlier that we spent EIGHT MILLION DOLLARS in two years to build. It is called Calvary Chapel. It’s pastor is Chuck Smith and it is in Costa Mesa, Calif.

The organization that he created is called MARINOT PRODUCTIONS.
They Started Jesus Rock Music! The reason for the eight million dollars was to put ROCK MUSIC in Churches that did not allow Rock Music!
skepticfiles.org/atheist2/jtc5.htm

A History of Calvary Chapel
informationgospel.net/a_history_of_calvary_chapel.htm

 

[Jean_2004]

Although I am Catholic, for a short time I attended Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa during my “searching” days a few years ago. Growing up Catholic, I had never experienced a service like that before. I called it a 50/50 service. The first half was singing, and then the next half was preaching. Its message was very simple and easy to understand and relate to. The music was contemporary Christian. It really had an emotional pull. But that would have never been enough for me. I missed the Eucharist.
BTW, I heard, (and am wondering if anybody else heard) that Chuck Smith Jr ended a service with the Sign of the Cross???)

 

[AlfonsoM]

I used to be a Catholic and by the grace of God, He opened my eyes! I use to go to church as an obligation to remove my sins for the week, but soon after the service ended I went back to what I’ve always done! Anything I wanted to do! I have always believed in God, but never new God! At the time I had never read the bible, because people (Catholics) always told me “you will not understand it” just go to church and you will be ok with God? I needed more, I needed to know who He is and what He has done for me! By appointment, I came across kwave a radio station here in Los Angeles (107.9) also Kwave.com. It was like the pastor was talking to me! The pastor read from 1 John 1:8 “if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” I thought I was being cleansed from my sins on a weekly basis. I use to say, “I’m better than that drug addict or better than that other guy”. This is when I realized, that I always compare myself to men and not Jesus. Not saying that I am sinless like Him, but we need to be like Jesus. He is our example our guide! Paul wrote: 1Corinthians 11:1 “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ”. When you compare yourselves with Jesus we find out just how small we really are, and how sinful we are in comparison! David who trusted in God said in Psalms 8:4 “What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?” You see we are all sinners and we shouldn’t compare ourselves with men, but with God!
I have read in this forum everyone talking about Chuck Smith who is just a man (sinner) like you and me! People trash him or look at him with a microscope trying to hidden (bad) secrets just to say that this church is a cult and to reject it completely! If I was able to look at you, what would we find? Pastor Chuck Smith is a pastor who teaches the word of God from Genesis to Revelation. Verse by Verse Chapter by Chapter, what is wrong with that? Catholics are fast to condemn others, but have little site on themselves! If you want to look at man let’s look at the multiple priest that have brutally abused children in the Catholic Church! Let’s look at how the catholic church responded by not revealing all documents to pedophile priest! I know that these priests are also sinners, but when the Catholic Church tried to cover it up, that is completely wrong! Believe me if Chuck Smith were to hide or cover up for one pedophile pastor, he would be the same of the Catholic Church, but I do not follow Chuck or man, I follow Jesus who knew no sin.

 

[yellowbird]

but I do not follow Chuck or man, I follow Jesus who knew no sin.

I see you are new here. Me too.

I just wanted to say that because I desire to follow my Lord & Savior Jesus Christ, I have to be obeident to His Church that He established. Jesus did not intend for us to pick and choose what to believe and He certainly didn’t just pass out Bibles. He knew THAT would lead to nothing but confusion. Instead, He established a Church - and the gates of hell have not prevailed despite the sins of some of it’s members.

Calvary Chapel might have nice music and a thought provoking sermons and great Bible studies… but they don’t have Jesus in the Eucharist, so really - there’s no comparrison. I don’t worship the “Bible” - I worship Jesus.

 

[lak611]

I used to be a Catholic and by the grace of God, He opened my eyes! I use to go to church as an obligation to remove my sins for the week, but soon after the service ended I went back to what I’ve always done! Anything I wanted to do! I have always believed in God, but never new God! At the time I had never read the bible, because people (Catholics) always told me “you will not understand it” just go to church and you will be ok with God? I needed more, I needed to know who He is and what He has done for me!

I felt the same way that you did and was away from practicing any religion for 5 years. Then I read the Bible and understood the Catholic Church. I no longer saw going to church as a chore. I wanted a personal relationship with Jesus. I got it by confessing my sin to God in the Sacrament of Penance, as Jesus told us to do in the Bible.

Joh 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
Joh 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Joh 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

I receive Him every time I receive the Eucharist.

Joh 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
Joh 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”
Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.
Joh 6:56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.
Joh 6:58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”

 

[AlfonsoM]

I’m happy to see that you quote scripture! Awesome!
Question: can the bloodless sacrifice that happens at every catholic church cleanse you from your sins?
Hebrews 9:22
…without shedding of blood there is no remission.
If you keep on reading in Hebrews 9 starting @ verse 23

Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another-- 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Jesus died once for our sins once!
another good scripture regarding this is
Hebrews 6:6,
“if they fall away to renew them again to repentance. since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame”
receiving Jesus is done once, not every weekend! John 1:12 says:“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:”

Communion (for me) is remembering what He did for me. How he suffered because of my sins. I am truely (so are we all) to blame for His suffering! Thank You LORD for forgiving us!