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jmoneyideas
Guest
Well I did it, Just got home from Mass and wow I loved it. The unity and flow just seemed so in one accordance. When I walked into the Church there is a Huge Jesus on the Cross and I couldn’t help but feel a reverence to him in that moment when I looked upon him. Then as I took in the whole experience from the readings to prayer intentions to the homily which was very interesting and I felt that the reading from Matthew 25 today about the 10 maidens really struck me and made me feel that I was in the right place. I want to be one of the Wise Maidens trust me. Plus on another note when they were petitioning for the prayer intentions of the dead and sick and our military and leaders, The Priest who was a guest priest this week which was kinda cool, jumped in and asked for a special Intention for those who struggle with Alcoholism, you see my walk with the Lord began when I had enough of my struggle with the addiction. I still struggle and fall back occasionally but with the lord at my side It is getting better. So i really felt like God had lined this day and moment up for me and I was at the right place at the right time. Anyways keep the comments coming. I am really enjoying this helpful and though provoking discussions. Stay bless oh and Go Buccaneers beat the Saints…ouch that really doesn’t seem like it fits after I did just go to a Catholic church and even prayed to St. Jude after wards…Be blessed and have a great day my friends.
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grandfather
Guest
Same to you and all your friends here and everywhere.
J
JRKH
Guest
What a wonderful testimony.
Sounds like you’ve really come home…
Praise God
Peace
James
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grandfather
Guest
If God leads a person it is always to truth.
In scripture God does not promise to lead individuals. He promises to lead His Church, His people. Throughout scripture the mechanism He uses is through leaders, those He puts in authority, and appoints or annoints, Moses, Aaron, David, His apostles and their successors. Even in a Protestant sect there are leaders. They claim their authority to teach or preach is the Bible, but they do not all teach the same doctrines.
Be assured that Catholics see you as a child of God in need of mercy, as they see themselves.
History has a strange way of being colored, depending on who has the crayons. However, history itself is most certainly not subjective. It is what it is, completely objective. What happened happened. What Luther said and wrote, he said and wrote, or Calvin or others. It can be examined by anyone who is interested as part of the historical record. I have a friend who is a Protestant minister. He has a PhD in philosophy, graduated magna cum laud. He told me that in his studies his class went back and exaimined the discussion and debate and letters between Luther and the Church. They all unanimously concluded to their astonishment that Luther was wrong. The historical record can be embellished or distorted by commentary, writers of history books, but its contents is examinable in evidence.
This is certainly true. Saint Peter says the same. Scipture is challenging. How then shall we arrive at a true understanding of the doctrine we calim to take from it if there is all this disagreement? Do you suppose that God may have given us the mechanism and that mechanism might be revealed in scripture itself?
The same Protestant minister friend comes from the Wesleyan tradition. After engaging a Calvinist group he told me, again to his amazement, that we (Wesleyans) are much closer to you (Catholics) than to Calvinists.
Do you mean to say the way God sees His Church and His commands for unity have changed?
It is ok now to be divided, because God sees us differently today? Division is a good thing then?
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jmoneyideas
Guest
I agree with this, Division is hurtful to the movement of the Church. There needs to be some form of structure. I can go up and down a street in america today and find many different Churches interpreting scripture in many different ways, worshiping God in ways that I find very different or as I felt today when I went to church at Our Lady of the Lakes and felt the Unity of the Church and what I really find awesome is that If I was out of town I could find a local church and still feel at home so many miles away. I am rambling but the feeling I felt today was just awesome.
Really quick do not get me wrong, I had received what I thought were amazing messages at my lil Non Denominational church as well but as I am Growing in faith I feel that God is wanting his people to be aligned together in Unity and as of 11:26 AM today in my heart I feel its with the Roman Catholic Church.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I suppose we should see good in everyone also. At least Luther and Calvin continued the Catholic tradition of never breaking the silence of the Confessional.
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Bklynguy
Guest
He is probably anti-Catholic not because he truly believes that Catholicism is not the One True Faith, but rather because something happened to him in the church when he was younger. And I am not even talking about the priest sexual abuses, but something may have rubbed him the wrong way. Perhaps he didn’t get along with the parishioners, thought the priest was boring, was “uninspired” by other people in Mass not singing hymns (which is quite common in Catholic churches). It could be for a variety of reasons, but above all due to him not being very well catechised. If he knew the Catholic Faith well, he wouldn’t have left it.
“And this one thing is certain…the Christianity of history is not Protestantism.”–Cardinal John Henry Newman (Anglican archbishop from 18th century who converted to Catholicism). Another famous quote by the same gentleman: “To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.”
Calvin and his followers thought Luther was too Catholic; however, Luther started to the whole Reformation process. After all, he is the one who ripped seven books out of the Bible (and wanted to rip more out to the chagrin of his followers). So much for “Sola Scriptura.” The phrase should actually be “Sola Scriptura as long as it confirms with my own personal agenda.”
Welcome home. I’ll be praying for you.I am so green in my walk that I am soaking everything in like a sponge. This weekend I am going to a mass and my church… Love the lord and love the history of the Church!
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AmateurPianist
Guest
I started a thread on this once and never was successful in communicating my point.
I am not saying that it is God’s design that the church exist in multiple competing organizations with contradictory teaching.
What I am saying is that it does not necessarily follow that if I accept tthat division is a bad thing, that God must see the church in existing in one and only one organization.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
We must by conscious choose to see the GOOD in all beliefs. Out of 360-degrees if only 80-degrees is true, This should be the focus.
When Jesus appeared at the well and spoke with the women whom had 5-husbands. Jesus Christs starting point of connection to this woman. become as simple as a drink of water.
Peace
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bz5
Guest
Why not? Do you think Jesus started a church, promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it, promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth, and then let it slip away? If you are merely meaning that all denominations do have some truth in them, then we Catholics agree with you.
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BrianGular
Guest
Hey, pablope!
Thank you for the clarification on several of my points.
Regarding matters of faith and practice in the Protestant church, most follow a model similar to that of the early church, where heresy is dealt with via letters written by pastors and by church councils. There are also governing bodies that hold authority over some denominations, but not all. Generally, theology is done in community under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Individual interpretation is to be avoided.
Note that we must acknowledge that, especially in America, the Protestant church hasn’t done a very good job of avoiding the “personal interpretation” trap. The importance of history and tradition has been downplayed to the Protestant church’s detriment.
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PJM
Guest
My friend I sincerely would LOVE to respond to you, but am unclear as to exactly what it is that you mean by “the church of Christ.”=jmoneyideas;8538708]I am new to the Lord. I go to a little Non Denominational Church that is more anti catholic than non denominational. My pastor is so against Catholicism even though he was raised Catholic. He ended up in the Pentecostal denomination where he became a Pastor. I am leaning toward the Catholic side in my religious life. The History and Christ seem to line up with the Roman Catholic Church in my opinion. Since doing more research about our Faith, I mean our Faith in Christ not the different forms of the Faith, who do you feel has caused the biggest so called reformation of the The Church of Christ? Calvin, Luther or someone else. I am so green in my walk that I am soaking everything in like a sponge. This weekend I am going to a mass and my church… Love the lord and love the history of the Church!
It seems that every Christian denomination either calls them selves or thinks of themselves as “the church of Christ” despite the provable fact that Christ founded only One Church and accepts only one set of faith beliefs which he entrust to the Only Church he Jesus actually founded; the present Catholic Church."
If your question is who lead the Protestant revolution; it was first King Henry the VIII and the Anglican
Church of England. However the greatest effect and most damage to Catholism was caused by Luther and then Calvin who was by far more radical in beliefs and teachings.
There is an abundance of both historical and biblical evidence to support factually. Logically and historically the claims that we Catholics make.
May I suggest that you check out my BLOG [listed bellow] where I have posted over 60 detailed documents that will aid greatly your search for information and verification of catholic teachings and beliefs. Send me a private message if you have any other questions.
God Bless you,
Pat
PJM on the Forum
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Ruth_Catherine
Guest
That is a wonderful testimony. I used to be protestant and belonged to a mothers group where there were many, many different denominations. We would always seem to get into a discussion about beliefs. What each person believed. Everybody had a different belief about just about everything. Talk about getting confused. I told God I was confused and after a while I found this prayer:
*The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi in front of the cross.
Most High, Glorious God,
enlighten the darkness of our minds.
Give us a right faith, a firm hope and a perfect charity,
so that we may always and in all things act according to Your Holy Will. Amen*
After a while of praying that prayer, I was led back to the Catholic church and I love it.
It is great to have the authority of the Catholic Church to guide us and keep us in God’s will and out of confusion. Otherwise we are our own authority.
Just thought you might like that little prayer.
J
jlhargus
Guest
JL: The following links are my posts for scripture evidence for the Mass and ONE VISIBLE CATHOLIC CHURCH;I am new to the Lord. I go to a little Non Denominational Church that is more anti catholic than non denominational. My pastor is so against Catholicism even though he was raised Catholic. He ended up in the Pentecostal denomination where he became a Pastor. I am leaning toward the Catholic side in my religious life. The History and Christ seem to line up with the Roman Catholic Church in my opinion. Since doing more research about our Faith, I mean our Faith in Christ not the different forms of the Faith, who do you feel has caused the biggest so called reformation of the The Church of Christ? Calvin, Luther or someone else. I am so green in my walk that I am soaking everything in like a sponge. This weekend I am going to a mass and my church… Love the lord and love the history of the Church!
Mass;
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8041290&postcount=35
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8041295&postcount=36
Church;
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447593&postcount=987
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447600&postcount=988
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447604&postcount=989
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7447619&postcount=990
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JRKH
Guest
What you write above is good and leans in the correct direction. I hope you will do all in your power to encourage your protestant brothers in this pursuit of the early church model - including the idea of councils to deal with fundamental issues and controversies and whose decisions are binding on the whole Church. For that too is what we see in the early church model.
Until then, the problem of doctrinal confusion remains - and will continue, so long as the “bible alone”, non-authoritative", “invisible church” principles remain in force.
Yes pastors can write letters, yes some “governing bodies” can exercise “some” authority, but a fundamental underlying premise of protestantism is built on a rejection of a visible authoritative church. Thus, there is nothing in the protestant model that prevents those in disagreement from splitting and starting their own, new, denomination, just as their ancestors did…and that just creates another flavor for those with “itching ears”…
Peace
James
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jwright82
Guest
I would argue tha what Calvin and his colleages said is scriptual. Just as the Isrealites could go into error so could the visible church, which is what happaned during the reformation. What I was reminding people was that there were others beside Calvin who were just as important as he was in the Reformed movement.
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JRKH
Guest
I agree with this.
I even agree that (at least) much of what Calvin and others were saying was Scriptural.
However the thing that has always troubled me about the reformation is how adversarial it was even with itself…
Our best Bible evidence shows that when something really disturbing came up the early church met in council to resolve the matter. This of course did not preclude disagreements among personalities, but doctrinally the Church sought to speak with one voice.
This did not seem to be the case with Luther, Calvin, Zwingli et-al.
Each seemed to go their own way.
Now I will ready admit that my knowledge on this is very limited. I understand that Luther and Zwingli communicated but wound up separating over theological matters. I do not know of other issues, but I do know that there was never any early council(s) to hammer out the doctrinal differences so as to present a true and unified vision of what the “Reformed” Church should look like…
As I said, this is one of the factors that has always troubled me about the protestant reformation.
Peace
James
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Denise1957
Guest
I’m assuming that what you mean by ‘visible church’ above is the Catholic Church. If this is what you are referring to, then I disagree that the Church went into error. There was a misuse of indulgences by some at that time, which was later corrected (clarified) at the council (Trent, I believe).
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grandfather
Guest
I readl long ago and may not have the best recollection of the event, but they supposedly did meet in a gathering of early reformers. As they disputed their contradciting theological positions, Zwingli told Luther that when they got to heaven God would show them the truth of the matter. Luther explosively told Zwingli that they would never meet in heaven, that Zwingli was damned.
So much for sola fide.
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