Was not Mary the “vessel” carring the Christ"? Was not Noah righteous enough to himself be a type of Christ? My typology is no less valid than yours. Neither are inspired by God. You say mine is bad because it doesn’t “match” your erroneous theology.That is terrible typology. Mary did not save Christ. Christ saved Mary. Christ did not need salvation.
Judas Iscariot was chosen by God even though God knew that he was a “devil”. Doing “good works” to merit salvation is disproven by your example of Judas Iscariot, instead of disproving the OSAS position. A “devil”, as Judas was described by Jesus, could never be considered saved in the first place.
I have not put forth any typology using Noah, so that makes it difficult for you to declare it invalid.Was not Mary the “vessel” carring the Christ"? Was not Noah righteous enough to himself be a type of Christ? My typology is no less valid than yours. Neither are inspired by God. You say mine is bad because it doesn’t “match” your erroneous theology.
Tim,That’s a poor analogy. Sorry. You can argue with scripture if you like, but you won’t win!
2 Chronicles 15:2 “If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will leave you”.
Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”
Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.”
2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us”.
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
1 Timothy 1:19 “Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked”.
Hebrews 2:1 “Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away”.
I’m not Tim, but that’s not relevant since you were responding to my post.Tim,
I don’t know what you want me to do here. I agree whole heartedly with everyone of these verses. I find nothing to dispute, but as I said before, I think it is great that you are searching the scriptures for truth.
HankZ
Yet you claim to believe this:I believe in election and salvation by faith apart from works.
Could you show where these 3 are given exception to the rules?Some notable exceptions:
Enoch
Elijah
Mary
Salvation belongs to the Lord. Who is powerful enough to take it from Him, by force. Try if you must, but it is always better to ask.I’m saying that if God condemns creatures to hell that have no ability to avoid this fate on their own; if he condemns humans to hell merely for being human then that God is evil. I’m not saying this God doesn’t exist, I’m just saying that he’s evil if he does. I think that these are fairly objective standards.
This is creating a God to fit your way of thinking, rather than accept God for who he is. Job tried to put God into a box and was rebuked for it. The thing you are missing is if you get God wrong, it is you who is wrong. God is the same yesterday, today and forever more.
Now, what you have just described is not the predestination that I am familar with. If you can actually affect your salvation by praying to God for salvation that’s somewhat different than salvation being random and predestined.
Sorry about calling you Tim.I’m not Tim, but that’s not relevant since you were responding to my post.
Anyway, you write:
Yet you claim to believe this:
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.”
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
My question:
Do you consider doing the will of the Father to be works?
If so, then how can you deny the importance of works?
If not, what do you consider it?
The bible says that after we are “saved”, if we stop doing good works, we will no longer be “saved.”Sorry about calling you Tim.
Salvation comes by Faith and not of works. Only after someone is saved can they do good works. Anything done outside of salvation is like filthy rags. Apart from the Holy Spirit, you can only do filthy rags type of works. God looks at the heart and knows that good works done outside of faith are done to glorify oneself and therefore are not done to please God. Pleasing God is the only good works there is. 1Corintians chapter 13:1-3 tells us that all things done without love is useless.
Until you give your life to Christ, you do not love Him. Until He is Lord of your life, you follow satan. Until you accept Him as your Savior, you are unsaved and your good works are as filthy rags.
HankZ
I find it completely true. Why are you questioning this.The bible says that after we are “saved”, if we stop doing good works, we will no longer be “saved.”
We must endure. God’s endurance is not in dispute, so this endurance that Jesus speaks of must be up to us.
We need God’s grace to endure, but WE must endure.
You didn’t address the scripture I posted.
Let’s look at just one. Is this unclear to you?
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
I thought you were defending the once saved, always saved position.I find it completely true. Why are you questioning this.
Let’s look at Judas Isacariot. He was in God grace, but he refused to accept Him. Therefore he tasted life, but did not have it. He turned against Christ and was damned for not having accepted Jesus as his Savior.
Hankz
Correct.I thought you were defending the once saved, always saved position.
I guess I misunderstood.