Calvinists, What Can I do to Assure My Election?

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The key, Chet is in the word “sure”, not in the word “make”

It’s not a matter of giving our calling and election better footing, or improving it. It’s a matter of making sure it’s there, of proving it in the sense that one proves out an algebraic equation; the work is done, now we verify.

That’s not a very solid foundation.

Do some good works once in awhile to make sure you are actually saved?

Jesus said ONLY he who does the will of my Father will go to heaven.

I don’t think it is optional.

If faith without works is dead, then works must help sustain faith.

Does that make sense?

 

[Genesis315]

The problem is this takes charity from its central position and makes peripheral or superficial. Acts of charity become simply for show–either to others or to yourself–to demonstrate that you are elected.

It also makes the Great Commission to teach the nations a sterile endeavor.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

If faith without works is dead, then works must help sustain faith.

Does that make sense?

Not necessarily. If A causes B, then that doesn’t have to imply that B sustains A…B could instead be an inevitable result of A.

For example, if I keep my teeth clean by brushing them regularly, then I’ll have fresh breath. However, having fresh breath does not help my teeth to be clean. If I were to eat a bunch of breath mints for example, that would keep my breath fresh but do nothing to maintain the cleanliness of my teeth.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

The key, Chet is in the word “sure”, not in the word “make”

It’s not a matter of giving our calling and election better footing, or improving it. It’s a matter of making sure it’s there, of proving it in the sense that one proves out an algebraic equation; the work is done, now we verify.

So, what about one who wrongly believes they are one of the elect who continues to do charitable (but dead) works? Are they not verifying a false election?

Peace,
-Robert

 

[LutheranDK]

Anything?

I’m no Calvinist, but I’m going to answer what I think a Calvinist would answer:

Predestination is, per definition, not something one can accomplish for oneself. I cannot do anything to be predestined. So no - you can do nothing to assure being predestined. Because if you are predestined, you were…predestined from before the beginning of time.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I’m no Calvinist, but I’m going to answer what I think a Calvinist would answer:

Predestination is, per definition, not something one can accomplish for oneself. I cannot do anything to be predestined. So no - you can do nothing to assure being predestined. Because if you are predestined, you were…predestined from before the beginning of time.

I agree that this is what Calvinist doctrine teaches, but it contradicts the bible, which tells us what to do to assure our election.

God knows the future. We don’t.

He has given us instructions for following his will.

We have the choice of accepting or rejecting these instructions.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

That’s not a very solid foundation.

Do some good works once in awhile to make sure you are actually saved?

Why do people keep on confusing:​

• laziness
  with
• " walking in the works prepared for us to do"
  This wicked doctrine is no different from the revolting travesty of Paul’s doctrine on grace, which some wretched men interpreted as an excuse to sin more & more, that they might receive more grace. And the answer is the same:
• Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
• Rom 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
• Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
  Grace - including the grace of election - is given that Christ may be glorified by the obedience of those who go by His Name. These other men are using His gifts as a means of disobeying Him, of holding His Blood cheap. And that is devil’s theology, devil’s morality. They are turning a blessing into a curse. This is ten thousand miles from the doctrine of Calvin, who always sets his face against such blasphemy.

Such a horrid abuse of grace is utterly selfish - it perverts grace from Christ, to the self, as though Christ were not far more valuable.

“Once in a while”…!!!

Jesus said ONLY he who does the will of my Father will go to heaven.

I don’t think it is optional.

If faith without works is dead, then works must help sustain faith.

Does that make sense?

Yes - but while Christians must be obedient, it does not follow that they can merit. The issue of good works’ being meritorious is one thing that Calvinists reject.​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I agree that this is what Calvinist doctrine teaches, but it contradicts the bible, which tells us what to do to assure our election.

God knows the future. We don’t.

He has given us instructions for following his will.

We have the choice of accepting or rejecting these instructions.

There is no contradiction - the end is certain, & is not contradicted by the fact that created means are used to make it the reality that from God’s POV it always is.​

The obedience of the elect is one of the means by which they come into the enjoyment of the eternal blessedness to which they are predestined, & of which they assured.

Hope that helps

 

[Ruthie]

I have found a couple of sources.

theopedia.com/Calvinism

Theopedia looks to be similar to Wikipedia in that anyone can edit it. It is biased towards Protestantism; for instance, it calls our Church the “Roman Catholic” church, ignoring our other Rites. It also describes us in adversarial terms, which it doesn’t do to Calvinism. and it certainly doesn’t “bust” any of the myths about us.

Here is a Calvinist apologetic site. I like their motto! “There is a God. You are not Him. To God be the Glory.”

Hope this helps,

Ruthie
http://www.calvinistcorner.com/images/pixel-blue.gifThere is a God. You are not Him. To God be the glory.

 

[dcana]

When Evangelicals refer to “dead works” they are referring to good works done with a view to earning merit or without faith.

Please explain to me what these words of our Lord mean: “Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven.” Our reason for doing good works must be for the love of God and His greater glory and our love for one another. Moreover, they are only done only with God’s grace and inspiration. They must not be done for any earthly reason (eg, praise, honors), as our Lord is making clear here (“Amen, they have already received their reward.”) But we should do them for “heavenly reasons,” so to speak, that we please our Heavenly Father so as to make Him say, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” And workers deserve their rewards, both monetarily and spiritually. And there is no more generous giver than God. Do I need to quote our Lord who in numerous places tells us of reward for doing good and of punishment for failing to go good? Okay, just one: Matthew chapter 25. Could he make Himself any clearer than that?

I should add, however, lest anyone misunderstand my point, that the one thing that is never earned and can never be earned in any way whatsoever is the grace of initial justification, that is, the forgiveness of our sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit through Baptism, and of being made sons and daughters of God Most High. These things were earned and could only be earned by Christ, the God-Man, through His Passion and Death. However, our heart must still be open to that initial Grace of graces just as throughout our lives they must be opened to God’s graces and inspirations. “Amen, Amen, I say to you, not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Heavenly Father.”

 

[Truthstalker]

I could be accused of being a Calvinist. Sigh. I have reservations about that, one of which I know little about what my own denomination teaches, and another is that I think the word has become meaningless, especially as used on CAF as a pejorative, and in our wider culture as a word for a puritanical tub-thumping fanatic. I think of myself as a Christian rather than a Calvinist. But I will try to answer as best I can,

Calvinists, like Catholics, recognize some theological contradictions. One is that between predestination and free will. God certainly predestines us, as passages such as Eph 1:4 clearly state. Augustine and Aquinas have much to say about predestination. At the same time we have free will, as Scripture clearly states. Confusing? Absolutely. Do we ignore one side in favor of the other? No.

A former pastor of mine used to say he prayed as if God was sovereign but worked as if the choice was up to him.

To answer your OP question specifically, recently I read something about an Augustine quote where he said to choose to live as if you are predestined. He did the earliest and the most thorough theological work on predestination, which is why Aquinas, Calvin, et. al. lean on him so heavily.

You do a disservice to yourself, your readers and the Church when you misrepresent Calvinism as consisting solely of the doctrine of predestination (which I see you doing here, and you have done so on other threads). Calvinism is the second-most complex theological system out there - only Catholicism is more complex or nuanced - and 99% of the time what a Calvinist will say is something a Catholic can live with. It is that other 1% that causes all the trouble, and the 5% besides of rumor, false teachings, and distortions of Calvinism.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Calvinists, What Can I do to Assure My Election? Anything?

I’m not Calvinist, but here’s a response which touches upon the subject from Rev. Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut and a Calvinist preacher…

The Lord to shew the sovereign freedom of his pleasure, that he may do with his own what he will, and yet do wrong to none, he denies pardon and acceptance to those who seek it with some importunity and earnestness … and yet bestows mercy and makes known himself unto some who never sought him

From another early American defender of Calvinism, Reverend Charles Chauncy,

                                You              hang, as it were, over the bottomless pit, by the slender thread of              life: and the moment that snaps asunder, you sink down into              perdition.... It is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, and that              of an angry God, without promise or obligation to all, that keeps              the arrow one moment from being drunk with your          blood.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

From a much better Calvinist preacher, C. H. Spurgeon:

“Now,” says one, “Sir, I want to know one thing, and if I knew that, I would not care what happened. I want to know whether God from all eternity ordained me to be saved.” Well, friend, I will tell you how to find that out, and you may find it out to a certainty…If you want to know your election, thus shall you assure your hearts before God.—Do you feel yourself this morning to be a lost, guilty sinner? go straightway to the cross of Christ, and tell Christ that, and tell him that you have read in the Bible, “That him that cometh unto him he will in no wise cast out.” Tell him that he has said, “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom you are chief.” ***Look to Christ and believe on him, and you shall make proof of your election directly, for so surely as thou believest thou art elect. ***If thou wilt give thyself wholly up to Christ and trust him, then thou art one of God’s chosen ones" [C.H. Spurgeon, “His Name, His Counselor,” Sermon no. 215]

So, according to C.H. Spurgeon, you “make proof of your election” by “believing on” Christ.

Augustine disagreed. Unlike Calvinist preachers, Augustine distinguished the gift of faith from the gift of final perseverance. Contrary to Scripture, Calvinists conflate the two as though they were but one gift, or if two gifts, both necessarily come together. There can never be one without the other, according to Calvinist preaching.

Augustine, on the other hand stated that one could truly believe, and therefore truly be justified, but then fail to persevere to the end in that belief, fail to persevere in justification. In other words, it is possible that those given the gift of faith, may through their own fault fail to receive the gift of perseverance from God.

Only those who persevere to the end believing in Christ are among the elect, according to Augustine. Augustine said that gift of perseverance is given only to those who seek it as a gift from God.

Augustine was right. Although I like some of what Rev. Spurgeon preaches, if he would have been a better student of Augustine, Chystosom, Paul, and Christ, he’d have been Catholic.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I knew a “once saved, always save” Calvinist preacher who decades later became an atheist. Did he “believe on” Christ? Did he “make proof of his election directly?” For decades he thought he did. I remain unconvinced of the Calvinist doctrine that claims “eternal security,” whey they admittedly explain that those who often claim to “believe on” Christ, may merely think they believe on Christ. It should be called the “I’m not absolutely sure I’m eternally secure” doctrine.

They might then have to admit, like the rest of us, that they rely upon hope.

 

[Truthstalker]

I knew a “once saved, always save” Calvinist preacher who decades later became an atheist. Did he “believe on” Christ? Did he “make proof of his election directly?” For decades he thought he did. I remain unconvinced of the Calvinist doctrine that claims “eternal security,” whey they admittedly explain that those who often claim to “believe on” Christ, may merely think they believe on Christ. It should be called the “I’m not absolutely sure I’m eternally secure” doctrine.

They might then have to admit, like the rest of us, that they rely upon hope.

I trust Christ. I don’t trust me. Is that enough?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I could be accused of being a Calvinist. Sigh. I have reservations about that, one of which I know little about what my own denomination teaches, and another is that I think the word has become meaningless, especially as used on CAF as a pejorative, and in our wider culture as a word for a puritanical tub-thumping fanatic. I think of myself as a Christian rather than a Calvinist. But I will try to answer as best I can,

Calvinists, like Catholics, recognize some theological contradictions. One is that between predestination and free will. God certainly predestines us, as passages such as Eph 1:4 clearly state. Augustine and Aquinas have much to say about predestination. At the same time we have free will, as Scripture clearly states. Confusing? Absolutely. Do we ignore one side in favor of the other? No.

A former pastor of mine used to say he prayed as if God was sovereign but worked as if the choice was up to him.

St. Ignatius would have agreed​

To answer your OP question specifically, recently I read something about an Augustine quote where he said to choose to live as if you are predestined. He did the earliest and the most thorough theological work on predestination, which is why Aquinas, Calvin, et. al. lean on him so heavily.

You do a disservice to yourself, your readers and the Church when you misrepresent Calvinism as consisting solely of the doctrine of predestination (which I see you doing here, and you have done so on other threads). Calvinism is the second-most complex theological system out there - only Catholicism is more complex or nuanced - and 99% of the time what a Calvinist will say is something a Catholic can live with. It is that other 1% that causes all the trouble, and the 5% besides of rumor, false teachings, and distortions of Calvinism.

Not a contradiction, but a paradox - there’s a difference. Calvinist is theologically complex, & not everyone is able to follow a theological argument. ​

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

You do a disservice to yourself, your readers and the Church when you misrepresent Calvinism as consisting solely of the doctrine of predestination (which I see you doing here, and you have done so on other threads). Calvinism is the second-most complex theological system out there - only Catholicism is more complex or nuanced - and 99% of the time what a Calvinist will say is something a Catholic can live with. It is that other 1% that causes all the trouble, and the 5% besides of rumor, false teachings, and distortions of Calvinism.

The 1% of Calvinism, using your percentage, not mine, is the dangerous heresey that I am addressing.

The danger is that Calvinists preach that good works are not a requirement. They feel no obligation to sustain their faith through Christian actions because in their view this is God’s job, not theirs.

The bible tells what WE must do to assure our election. Calvinists claim that doing good works merely confirms what already exists.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I trust Christ. I don’t trust me. Is that enough?

Trust in Christ to lead you IF you pick up your cross and follow.

The grace of God is sufficient to enable you to follow, but you still have to follow.

 

[Truthstalker]

Not a contradiction, but a paradox - there’s a difference. Calvinist is theologically complex, & not everyone is able to follow a theological argument.

Poor word choice on my part. Paradox it is.

 

[Truthstalker]

The 1% of Calvinism, using your percentage, not mine, is the dangerous heresey that I am addressing.

The danger is that Calvinists preach that good works are not a requirement. They feel no obligation to sustain their faith through Christian actions because in their view this is God’s job, not theirs.

The bible tells what WE must do to assure our election. Calvinists claim that doing good works merely confirms what already exists.

You are addressing the wrong thing. For one thing you fail to distinguish between allowed Catholic Thomist beliefs and Calvinism, as I pointed out on another thread (which you still haven’t answered) and Calvinists stress obedience to the commands of Christ; you seem to deny this, whether from deliberate misrepresentation or ignorance.

We cannot change the mind of God on who gets into heaven and who doesn’t. That was predetermined “before the foundation of the world.” Aquinas would agree with that. So you are attacking Catholic belief.