Camping and the Sunday obligation

[1ke]

Assuming I have adequate time to plan getting a dispensation is not a problem. If anything, it is too easy I’m asking, in your personal experience, how burdensome attending mass has to be before you request a dispensation. Do you simply make other travel plans that allow you to attend mass even though you could conceivably get a dispensation?

Well, for me personally in 25 years of being a Catholic I’ve never asked for a dispensation. I’ve missed mass when I was in the hospital, a few times when I was really sick, a couple of times when travel disruptions (canceled/delayed flights) left me with no option, and in Egypt when there was absoluely no Catholic Church available at all.

Generally I’ve been able to work travel plans around Mass. But, if someone WANTS to go hike Mt. Kilimanjaro then go for it-- Mass would not be available on the mountain. Talk to your pastor if you think you must.

The Church has no requirement to stay within X radius of a church.

In general, it’s pretty easy to find a Catholic mass. I’ve attended Mass on all other vacations except Egypt, including an Alaska cruise and in about 5 different languages abroad. I’ve gone to Mass on business trips. I’ve found ways to get to Mass by car, by cab, by train, by bus, on foot.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

If it was me, I would simply ask my pastor. If he says go, then go. If not, the being dispensed covers the obligation.

The problem is I feel terribly guilty even asking. If I could conceivably catch a flight and attend mass I would feel obliged to do it no matter what. If I can’t even do that I feel obliged to miss the trip.

 

[1ke]

The problem is I feel terribly guilty even asking. If I could conceivably catch a flight and attend mass I would feel obliged to do it no matter what. If I can’t even do that I feel obliged to miss the trip.

You are not obligated to miss a trip.

 

[tafan]

Assuming I have adequate time to plan getting a dispensation is not a problem. If anything, it is too easy I’m asking, in your personal experience, how burdensome attending mass has to be before you request a dispensation. Do you simply make other travel plans that allow you to attend mass even though you could conceivably get a dispensation?

You don’t know how easy it is until you talk to your pastor. How burdensome before you request a dispensation? That should be an easy answer, if there is any chance you will not be able to attend, you should request the dispensation. You are freely choosing the trip, so the dispensation seems a must.

You last question: me personally? Yes, I would likely change plans. I cannot say this is a personal absolute. I can envision scenarios where I would not be able to attend mass and not change plans, but I have never done that before.

 

[tafan]

The problem is I feel terribly guilty even asking. If I could conceivably catch a flight and attend mass I would feel obliged to do it no matter what. If I can’t even do that I feel obliged to miss the trip.

Don’t feel guilty, just ask. The pastor will understand. I have had business trips to Europe, leaving on Saturday night and arriving on Sunday morning (to make a Monday morning meeting) and assumed I could find a Sunday evening mass. Never had a problem finding the mass, but the dispensation was requested just in case.

 

[Della]

People keep advising to “get a dispensation” but if you are too far from a Catholic parish/monastery, etc., then the obligation is automatically dispensed. No one should obsess over this.

My dh and I generally go weekend camping and only once were we too far from a Catholic parish, which had no Saturday evening Mass and was over 50 miles away. We felt no guilt and had no need to ask for a dispensation that was automatic due to the distance and unavailability of going.

 

[tafan]

People keep advising to “get a dispensation” but if you are too far from a Catholic parish/monastery, etc., then the obligation is automatically dispensed. No one should obsess over this.

My dh and I generally go weekend camping and only once were we too far from a Catholic parish, which had no Saturday evening Mass and was over 50 miles away. We felt no guilt and had no need to ask for a dispensation that was automatic due to the distance and unavailability of going.

Della, I looked it up and I am not for sure you are correct. At least it is not clear to me.

Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

No where does it say what you are saying, only that if participating is “impossible… for a grace cause”, it recommends what one should do.

So I suppose if it is impossible, your interpretation could be correct. But if one is scheduling a voluntary vacation, I fail to see how that satisfies the “impossible for grave cause” (since the vacation can be changed). So it seems very prudent (I would say necessary) to obtain the dispensation, which is allowed via canon 1245:

Can. 1245 Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops mentioned in ⇒ can. 87, for a just cause and according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop, a pastor can grant in individual cases a dispensation from the obligation of observing a feast day or a day of penance or can grant a commutation of the obligation into other pious works. A superior of a religious institute or society of apostolic life, if they are clerical and of pontifical right, can also do this in regard to his own subjects and others living in the house day and night

 

[pnewton]

People keep advising to “get a dispensation” but if you are too far from a Catholic parish/monastery, etc., then the obligation is automatically dispensed. No one should obsess over this.

The dispensation are for those with either a borderline decision or who are not comfortable without one. I would assume this to be the case here because a thread was posted asking for an opinion. If one already dispensed for one of the automatic reasons given need not get one.

 

[Della]

Della, I looked it up and I am not for sure you are correct. At least it is not clear to me.

Nothing in canon law you cited is in dispute with my statement.

No where does it say what you are saying, only that if participating is “impossible… for a grace cause”, it recommends what one should do.

Fine, but again, it doesn’t refute what I wrote.

So I suppose if it is impossible, your interpretation could be correct. But if one is scheduling a voluntary vacation, I fail to see how that satisfies the “impossible for grave cause” (since the vacation can be changed). So it seems very prudent (I would say necessary) to obtain the dispensation, which is allowed via canon 1245:

It’s a matter of prudential judgment, to be sure.

 

[tafan]

Della, canon law says we have an obligation. It also says what is recommended if the participating is impossible. It also provides for a pastor to grant a dispensation.

I suppose your point is that “too far” is a cause to make it impossible. That can certainly be the case. But my point is if you are choosing ahead of time to be too far, then it is not impossible, so in that case a dispensation seems necessary.

I think obsessing over this is not a bad thing, it is an extremely important obligation. Granted, if one is ill, they should not be worried, but a vacation? I have a hard time taking that lightly. YMMV

God bless

 

[Elizium23]

People keep advising to “get a dispensation” but if you are too far from a Catholic parish/monastery, etc., then the obligation is automatically dispensed. No one should obsess over this.

There is no such thing as an automatic dispensation. If it is impossible to attend, then there is no obligation at all.

 

[Della]

There is no such thing as an automatic dispensation. If it is impossible to attend, then there is no obligation at all.

Indeed. That is what I meant. One does not need to get a dispensation if one cannot attend. That’s all I’m saying, for goodness sake. :whacky:

 

[pnewton]

If it is impossible to attend, then there is no obligation at all.

That’s what she said “dispensed” is also a verb that can be used in a non-legal sense. If the obligation ceased, then one is dispensed of the obligation, as opposed to obtaining a dispensation. “Dispensed with” means, by definition, gotten rid of.

 

[Della]

That’s what she said “dispensed” is also a verb that can be used in a non-legal sense. If the obligation ceased, then one is dispensed of the obligation, as opposed to obtaining a dispensation. “Dispensed with” means, by definition, gotten rid of.

Thank you. :tiphat:

 

[Larry1700]

I just wondered are there no Sunday evening Masses in your area? Would it be possible to get to Sunday evening Mass on your way home from camping? I went with my children to Sunday evening Mass for years. It was much calmer than morning Mass.

Yes, we’re considering that option.

Anyway, I just looked it up via masstimes.org, and there is a mass 11 miles away. I guess we’ll just have to make a point to sit away from all the other folks, so they can’t smell us!

 

[Della]

Yes, we’re considering that option.

Anyway, I just looked it up via masstimes.org, and there is a mass 11 miles away. I guess we’ll just have to make a point to sit away from all the other folks, so they can’t smell us!

I’m sure you’ll be welcome all the same.

 

[tafan]

Indeed. That is what I meant. One does not need to get a dispensation if one cannot attend. That’s all I’m saying, for goodness sake. :whacky:

But we are left with the key question, if one voluntarily, and unnecessarily, places oneself in a position where they will not be able to attend, is a dispensation required?

 

[Della]

But we are left with the key question, if one voluntarily, and unnecessarily, places oneself in a position where they will not be able to attend, is a dispensation required?

Why are we left with that question when it has already been answered? If a dispensation is required then we ask for one. If it isn’t then we don’t. I can’t see why this has to be complicated.

 

[pnewton]

But we are left with the key question, if one voluntarily, and unnecessarily, places oneself in a position where they will not be able to attend, is a dispensation required?

Most everything is voluntary and necessary is a matter of degree. Travel is allowable and one need not ever travel on the weekend to avoid such a conflict.

 

[Della]

Most everything is voluntary and necessary is a matter of degree. Travel is allowable and one need not ever travel on the weekend to avoid such a conflict.

Yes, it’s a matter of prudential judgment. One has to weigh the factors and decide if one has sufficient grounds for a dispensation or if one needs to ask for a dispensation. Sometimes plans cannot be changed over a weekend for various good reasons. This is why we need to know what constitutes grave reasons for not attending Mass.