Can a Cardinal be demoted to a conventional Bishop, and a Bishop to a Priest?

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fredystairs said:
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commenter:
In any case,

he would remain a priest or bishop, unless he was reduced to lay status, which is very rare
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Could you clarify this please? I think that they would remain a priest or bishop, even if they were not permitted to exercise any authority within the Church. Thanks.
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Clerics can be “laicized”; even bishops. Sometimes it’s voluntary and sometimes it’s the imposition of a penalty. It certainly happens.

Yes, ordination itself is permanent and ontological. So once ordained, always ordained. But laicized means that he has the status of a lay person in the Church and he cannot exercise any office (munera) of Holy Orders.
 
fredystairs said:
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PaulfromIowa:
Theologian Avery Dulles was made Cardinal by John Paul II
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And he was only a priest and not a bishop. So the Catholic.com article I quoted was wrong?

Thanks for the update and correction.
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The article was correct.

Pope St John Paul II gave a special dispensation to Cardinal Dulles (at his own request) to be released from the obligation to be ordained a bishop.

He was created Cardinal in 2001, so that was under the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Pope St John XXIII modified the 1918 Code.

One needs to look at the events and also look at the law which was in place at the time of the events.
 
Yeoman said:
Title says it all, I suppose.

I’ve never heard of this happening, and perhaps it can’t. I just don’t know.
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A Cardinal can certainly be removed from the College—ie made a non-Cardinal, by the pope. He can also be suspended from exercising (any part or the whole) role as a Cardinal while not being completely removed.
 
Bishops, No. But they can be lazied or removed from positions of influence/power.

Cardinals, while technically is possible for them to be removed from the College of Cardinals, they are usually just removed from positions of influence/power.
 
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fredystairs said:
I would like to amend my answer. Apparently in 1962, Pope John XXIII made it that only bishops can become cardinals. I was thinking that I had remembered that a deacon had become a cardinal but that must have been centuries ago.
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Yes…and i believe any baptised male can be elected pope…they would be ordained as a Bishop (Bishop of Rome) first, if not already a Bishop.
 
Hereiam said:
Yes…and i believe any baptised male can be elected pope…they would be ordained as a Bishop (Bishop of Rome) first, if not already a Bishop.
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There would only be one of him. Not “they.”

The other 2 criteria (usually accepted as necessary) is that he be a baptised adult male.

Although not actually specified in canon law, those 2 additions are generally accepted. If the one elected is not baptised, he would be immediately baptised.

I suppose people could have different opinions as to whether or not a boy (as opposed to man) could be validly ordained.
 
And to finish the thread, i suppose we should distinguish the he should be an adult human.
 
Hereiam said:
And to finish the thread, i suppose we should distinguish the he should be an adult human.
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The idea that the Cardinals might elect a non-baptised or elect a boy seem quite strange and impossible to us.

Yet, when we look at history, those are not unrealistic.

We do have precedent for an unbaptised being elected bishop (St Ambrose is one). So it’s not outright impossible to imagine some future pope.

Also, given the unfortunate history of the Borgias, the idea that a boy-pope might be elected is likewise not-impossible. We hope that we’ve moved beyond that sad era, but the reality is that given human nature, it’s a possibility for the future.

Remember: 10 years ago we all would have laughed at the idea of a sitting pope resigning his office, thinking that such a thing is impossible today even though it happened 2 or 3 times in ancient history.
 
fredystairs said:
I would like to amend my answer. Apparently in 1962, Pope John XXIII made it that only bishops can become cardinals. I was thinking that I had remembered that a deacon had become a cardinal but that must have been centuries ago.

https://www.catholic.com/cardinal

I apologize for my error.

Blessings
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Any subsequent Pope could change that. Pope John Paul II installed a priest to the College. Avery Cardinal Dulles was never consecrated as a bishop. Cardinal Dulles was given the option of becoming a bishop, but he declined.
 
I believe he can… I have a second cousin who I believe did that
 
Brendan_64 said:
Could a laicised priest marry?
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Presumably you’re asking whether they could marry in church, since no one could prevent them from having a civil marriage. I would imagine that most ex-priests who get marrried wouldn’t particularly want a church wedding. However, it shouldn’t be difficult to find out what the rules are on this point.
 
BartholomewB said:
I would imagine that most ex-priests who get marrried wouldn’t particularly want a church wedding.
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Not all feel that way. There are some who priests who leave ministry with permission and still practice the Catholic faith.

I found this article which discusses whether or not “laicized priests” can get married:

canonlawmadeeasy.com

Can a Priest Ever Return to the Lay State?

Q: I thought once a man was ordained a priest, he is always a priest. So how is it that some priests get permission to leave the priesthood and get married? Sometimes you hear about somebody being…
canonlawmadeeasy.com

The short answer is that it is possible (though it requires an additional, separate dispensation from the promise of celibacy), though it appears such requests at least used to be denied more often than approved.

I can think of a few men who were laicized and then married in the Church. And I can think of a few that simply left the Church and married outside.
 
BartholomewB said:
I would imagine that most ex-priests who get marrried wouldn’t particularly want a church wedding.
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Why not? Most only seek to leave the ministry, NOT to leave the Church.

There was such a man in a parish that I used to belong to (when I lived in a different city). He petitioned for laicization, was granted it. He later got married and was married in the Church. He ahs remained a faithful Catholic, and even volunteered at the parish religious ed, preparing Confirmation candidates.
 
BartholomewB said:
Presumably you’re asking whether they could marry in church, since no one could prevent them from having a civil marriage. I would imagine that most ex-priests who get marrried wouldn’t particularly want a church wedding. However, it shouldn’t be difficult to find out what the rules are on this point.
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There’s actually a parishioner in our parish who is a laicised Priest who is married. I’m not sure how long he was actually a Priest, but he was a missionary Priest and my father, who knew the family well, always felt that he was quite unsuited for the role at the age he entered it.
 
FrDavid96 said:
There would only be one of him. Not “they.”
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Fr. David, it is a losing battle. You probably attended GRAMMAR school as I did, and were taught “they” takes only a plural reference. Today people use it often to refer to one hypothetical person, perhaps because of the Inclusive Language movement. Like you probably, I cringe at the constant misuse of the term, as well as “their”, as in “their going home now”.

We started a new Catholic high school 4 years ago, independent of the diocese but with permission of bishop, with Philosophy, Latin, the classics, and diagramming sentences. OK, back to the thread.
 
fredystairs said:
I would like to amend my answer. Apparently in 1962, Pope John XXIII made it that only bishops can become cardinals. I was thinking that I had remembered that a deacon had become a cardinal but that must have been centuries ago.
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Maybe this is incorrect, but I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that you don’t need to be a cardinal to become pope. Possibly you don’t even need to be a bishop but any priest could theoretically by elected.
 
A bishop cannot have his rank as bishop taken away from him, but he can be relieved of his responsibilities. There are bishops who don’t have any diocesal responsibility.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Could a laicised priest marry?
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That depends.

He still needs a dispensation from his promise of celibacy that he made at his diaconate ordination.

Assuming he has such a dispensation (which is typically granted to laicized priests) and assuming no other obstacles to the marriage, then yes, he can marry.
 
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