Can a Catholic attend a United Methodist service?

[Nicea325]

Frankly, I watch EWTN regularly, and the continual sniping at Protestantism makes me ill. The Church pretends to promote love, humility and peace, but some of those EWTN programs seem to further bigotry, arrogance and hostility. I’ve come to the conclusion that God isn’t interested in our church affiliation or even our theology. The Lord looks at our hearts instead!

I am sorry,but that is not true at all. Continual? Either you are taking things way of out-of-context or extremely sensitive. I also watch TBN and the Church Channel and I rarely hear continual sniping at Catholicism. A specific preacher may mention a Catholic doctrine he does not agree with or believe,but he certainly does not attack it for an hour or so.

Care to name some of the EWTN which further bigotry,arrogance and hostility?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

A couple points

** The Methodists are a fine group. They come in many different varieties**. People like McGovern and Mondale are/were Methodists, and so is George W. and Laura Bush. Years ago there was an article in LIFE magazine entitled “The American Church” and it was about the Methodists. The theme of the piece is that Methodists at that time best represented a cross-section of America, speaking politically, educationally, economically, etc. I’m not sure that this is still true, but they are a great church.

** Unlike Catholicism, Methodism allows for a wide difference of theological opinion.** There are very liberal Methodists (Unitarianish) and then there are fundamentalist Methodists, too. Most of them are somewhere in between. It has never been heavy on theology, emphasizing simple faith and Christian living. When John Wesley was attacked for his views, he replied to the effect: “If you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together.” He also advocated: “Think and let think.” This means that Methodism doesn’t insist on conformity when it comes to specific items of dogma.

** Yes, they use grapejuice in communion.** This is in part because of the temperance movement back when saloons were so notorious and destructive. Even today, what, 30,000,000 alcoholics give or take? Maybe it would be good if millions of us drank grapejuice instead of alcohol, and think of all we would save when we go out to eat! More important, Methodism has open communion, and this includes the idea that anyone should be able to take communion. If wine is used some alcoholics can be in danger. Catholicism, of course, traditionally has used only the host. But I have heard that an unusually high percentage of priests eventually have a problem with alcohol. I knew one AA group where we used to live. Two priests attended. I assumed they were chaplains of the groups. I discovered that no, they were alcoholics. One later left the priesthood - probably related to his addiction???

** Methodists, like most mainline Protestants, are very open-minded when it comes to other faiths**. They do not agree with Catholicism, but they are ready to work with other groups - Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc. - to make a better society. They have been strong in the field of social justice, sometimes causing controversy within the body.

 **One hot issue, of course, is gay marriage**. The Discipline forbids clergy to officiate at a gay/lesbian ceremony, whether marriage or civil union. This issue comes up every four years at General Conference. Since the church is so strong in the South and the Midwest the vote has been about 2-1 to keep that prohibition. Many pastors, especially in the Northeast and along the Pacific coast would like to see that policy rescinded.

 **Yes, Methodist ministers may marry divorced couples. **This is left up to the individual pastor and some won't. Others will, depending upon conditions surrounding the divorce. In the case of Catholicism, of course, you have to go through a 'church-sanctioned divorce' called an annulment, which costs money, makes a couple wait, and pretends that there was something wrong with the original marriage that made it invalid from the start. Sophistry! A marriage often is okay today, but people and conditions change. Yes, Christ spoke against divorce, but he did not cite it as an unforgiveable sin. Besides, sometimes it's best for a variety of reasons, such as physical abuse, extreme alcoholism and desertion. The Methodists are far more realistic than Catholicism on this point.

** Frankly, I watch EWTN regularly, and the continual sniping at Protestantism makes me ill.** The Church pretends to promote love, humility and peace, but some of those EWTN programs seem to further bigotry, arrogance and hostility. I’ve come to the conclusion that God isn’t interested in our church affiliation or even our theology. The Lord looks at our hearts instead!

** God bless Catholics, Methodists, and people of every creed, **color, culture and country. We should spend our time making religion a bridge rather than a barrier.

Amen, I totally agree.

 

[RyanBlack]

Christ is made present on the altar only by the hands of the Catholic priest and only at the Mass.

Actually, this is not true. The Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, and the Assyrian Church of the East have valid orders and valid sacraments.

 

[LDNCatholic]

God help us.

Catholics seeming to passively support (even encourage) another Catholic to commit mortal sin by participating in the communion of a Protestant sect.

There are nine ways we participate in the sins of others;

1. By counsel
2. By command
3. By consent
4. By provocation
5. By praise or flattery
6. By concealment
7. By partaking
8. By silence
9. By defense of the ill done

kariled You may attend their services as an observer only. As a Catholic you should not be participating in the services and you should not at any point share communion with them. They will of course welcome you, as the Methodists (by and large) practice open communion, whereby all Christians are welcomed to participate.

Due to our theological differences, and the fact that our two Churches are not in communion with one another, it is not appropriate to receive communion there, and if you do so, you will be in a state of mortal sin.

Forgive me if this is not what you were asking but in your OP you also mentioned you were very far from a Catholic church, giving the impression that you meant to replace Mass with Methodist services.

If you are truly isolated from a Catholic church I think a dispensation can be granted, but if you live in the US, or Europe, and have access to a car, I cannot see this being so.

God bless,

Peter

 

[lampstand]

“The taste”?



Do you realize what Communion is? We are not talking about just any ‘drink’ here.

This is what happens when the catechesis gets to the point where people don’t even seem to know what the Sacraments are, much less respect them.

If all you want is somebody to talk to you about marriage, go to a therapist or a seminar. Lots of churches talk about building marriage. Why do you need to hear it somewhere else? If that’s all it takes to sway you-- they’re not a far drive, and they talk about marriage- then why bother being Catholic?

Is there nothing else to the context and identity of the Church than that, for you?

 

[Aramis]

God is everywhere but to say “Church is Church” is to equate non-Catholic worship with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the celebration of the sacred mysteries which it contains. This simply is not so.

Christ is present sacramentally only in the ciboriums and tabernacles of the Holy Catholic Church which He established. The Holy Catholic Church is the Body of Christ and we are incorporated into that Body through the reception of the sacramental presence of Christ which comes to us in the Eucharist only through priests of that very same Church.

He is also present in the Orthodox Churches, both Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. Participation there, while generally not fulfilling the obligation, may do so for Roman Catholics in the US under certain conditions, as spelled out in the ecumenical director. In extremis, and if permitted by the Orthodox Pastor, one can fulfill the Easter and Christmas duties in an Orthodox parish.

No protestant church does.

see the CCC, ¶838

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

and the Code of Canon Law, Canon 844:
Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-

Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.

 

[achmafooma]

One hot issue, of course, is gay marriage. The Discipline forbids clergy to officiate at a gay/lesbian ceremony, whether marriage or civil union. This issue comes up every four years at General Conference. Since the church is so strong in the South and the Midwest the vote has been about 2-1 to keep that prohibition. Many pastors, especially in the Northeast and along the Pacific coast would like to see that policy rescinded.

Roy - thank you for the post, but I have to correct you here. At the last General Conference, the vote was 55% to keep the current stance on homosexuality and gay marriage, and 45% to change to a very vague, ‘everybody is free to think whatever they want’ kind of position.

Because theological positions are defined by majority rule in the UMC, if the next General Conference representation is just 5.01% more to the ‘left’ the official church doctrine changes. The trend is definitely in that direction. Don’t be surprised if this happens at the next General Conference or the one following.

The fact that fundamental moral doctrines can and do change in the UMC along with societal shifts of opinion is a very, very large part of why I ended up searching for a church that stood like a rock against the world, when necessary. Luckily I found it

Also I would encourage you to study the Catholic teaching on marriage and divorce a bit closer…Jesus never said that divorce was an unforgivable sin, but the Church doesn’t say that either. The Church says, like Jesus, that one who divorces and remarries commits adultery. Considering that Jesus says that in Scripture, as recorded in two or three places, it’s pretty clear that that’s the truth of our Christian faith – hard as it is for people to take these days.

The Catholic Church won’t allow remarriage after divorce because to do so would be to endorse adultery. It’s not about being ‘realistic,’ it’s about being morally correct and in-keeping with the teaching of Christ.

And annulment is not just ‘Catholic divorce’ either, but that’s a whole other discussion.

 

[CMatt25]

“The taste”?



Do you realize what Communion is? We are not talking about just any ‘drink’ here.

This is what happens when the catechesis gets to the point where people don’t even seem to know what the Sacraments are, much less respect them.

Not sure who you are referring to. But since I did mention the taste of grape juice perhaps me? Or you might be refering to Crazy Rachel who mentioned Methodist juice tasted delicious. But yes I realize what the Catholic belief is about what Communion is. Has nothing to do with poor catechesis or not knowing what the Catholic belief is pertaining to Sacraments. I can’t apeak for Rachel but she might even know too. Everything does not come down to poor catechesis.

 

[CMatt25]

Roy - thank you for the post, but I have to correct you here. At the last General Conference, the vote was 55% to keep the current stance on homosexuality and gay marriage, and 45% to change to a very vague, ‘everybody is free to think whatever they want’ kind of position.

Because theological positions are defined by majority rule in the UMC, if the next General Conference representation is just 5.01% more to the ‘left’ the official church doctrine changes. The trend is definitely in that direction. Don’t be surprised if this happens at the next General Conference or the one following.

The fact that fundamental moral doctrines can and do change in the UMC along with societal shifts of opinion is a very, very large part of why I ended up searching for a church that stood like a rock against the world, when necessary. Luckily I found it

Also I would encourage you to study the Catholic teaching on marriage and divorce a bit closer…Jesus never said that divorce was an unforgivable sin, but the Church doesn’t say that either. The Church says, like Jesus, that one who divorces and remarries commits adultery. Considering that Jesus says that in Scripture, as recorded in two or three places, it’s pretty clear that that’s the truth of our Christian faith – hard as it is for people to take these days.

The Catholic Church won’t allow remarriage after divorce because to do so would be to endorse adultery. It’s not about being ‘realistic,’ it’s about being morally correct and in-keeping with the teaching of Christ.

And annulment is not just ‘Catholic divorce’ either, but that’s a whole other discussion.

I would like to see the gay union stance change if even just on the basis of civil rights. Too much in time and resources is spent on this issue I believe when Christians have far more to work on. And it can be left to a church or ecclesial community whether they wish to perform a ceremony or not. The Catholic Church doesn’t have to. If UCC or TEC or UMC or whoever else want to, then they can. But that’s my belief. YMMV.

True part of my understanding of an annulment is it can be the Catholic Church saying a marriage never existed even though they might have performed and presided over the marriage ceremony and pronounced a couple husband and wife. But they might later say at least one of the two in the couple were withholding something or did not enter into the supposed marriage at the time truly in good faith.

 

[Erich]

I would like to see the gay union stance change if even just on the basis of civil rights.

Civil rights, by definition, are rights guaranteed by the Constitution (or any of its subsequent amendments). Marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution.

Nor is marriage a human right regardless of what the Constitution says…
otherwise it could be considered illegal and discriminatory for a person to leave a spouse – or even reject someone’s marriage proposal – since that would be denying his/her spouse the right to be married. If something is a human right, it should be guaranteed to all people. But marriage cannot be a guaranteed right as society has not the power nor the authority to enforce such a guarantee.

That said, gays already have a right to marry… as long as the person they’re marrying is of the opposite gender. To stretch the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (“no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”) to include gay marriage, how long before it is stretched to include polygamous/polyandrous marriages (or worse)?

 

[TimothyH]

Hello,

Thank you to all of you who explained well, I understand that UMC service does not replace Mass. I never intend to replace my Sunday obligation, questions was just If I can attend their services as they are doing a series of seminars about marriage.

Have a great day!
-Kari

Be aware that anthing they teach you might not be in line with Catholic teaching. I have a friend who is a Methodist Pastor. We have discussed his and my divorce and my ongoing anullment process withing the Church and his ideas of divorce and remarriage are not in accord with Catholic doctinres.

He also believed that artificial contraception is a gift from God.

Be careful.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

God help us.

Catholics seeming to passively support (even encourage) another Catholic to commit mortal sin by participating in the communion of a Protestant sect.

There are nine ways we participate in the sins of others;

1. By counsel
2. By command
3. By consent
4. By provocation
5. By praise or flattery
6. By concealment
7. By partaking
8. By silence
9. By defense of the ill done

kariled You may attend their services as an observer only. As a Catholic you should not be participating in the services and you should not at any point share communion with them. They will of course welcome you, as the Methodists (by and large) practice open communion, whereby all Christians are welcomed to participate.

Due to our theological differences, and the fact that our two Churches are not in communion with one another, it is not appropriate to receive communion there, and if you do so, you will be in a state of mortal sin.

Forgive me if this is not what you were asking but in your OP you also mentioned you were very far from a Catholic church, giving the impression that you meant to replace Mass with Methodist services.

If you are truly isolated from a Catholic church I think a dispensation can be granted, but if you live in the US, or Europe, and have access to a car, I cannot see this being so.

God bless,

Peter

This is a good point. One who has the Mass would not want to go anywhere else. What else could one really need?

-Tim-

 

[CMatt25]

Civil rights, by definition, are rights guaranteed by the Constitution (or any of its subsequent amendments).

Will not be responding to this further as this can quickly lead to off topic and we will likely never agree anyway. But just since you brought up amendments. The 14th states liberty can not be denied by the states. And the 9th states the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

This is a good point. One who has the Mass would not want to go anywhere else. What else could one really need?

-Tim-

Maybe someone needs any number of things they are not currently finding in the Catholic Church. Greater emphasis on the social justice and life issues Christ addressed in Matthew 25:35-46 and less on some other issues is just one that comes to my mind. But there might be any number of things one might need and finds elsewhere.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Maybe someone needs any number of things they are not currently finding in the Catholic Church. Greater emphasis on the social justice and life issues Christ addressed in Matthew 25:35-46 and less on some other issues is just one that comes to my mind. But there might be any number of things one might need and finds elsewhere.

No need for apostasy and especially no need to encourage it. You don’t like what your church (small c) is teaching, change your church, not your Church.

Regarding the passage you cited, every one of these can be found in the corporal works of Mercy, which all Catholics are bound to follow.

 

[CMatt25]

No need for apostasy and especially no need to encourage it. You don’t like what your church (small c) is teaching, change your church, not your Church.

What do you mean change your church?

 

[LDNCatholic]

What do you mean change your church?

Small c-the building you attend Mass at rather than Church (capitalised), the faith you belong to.

There are plenty of Catholic churches that fully live out the corporal works of mercy (and the spiritual) without compromising their orthodoxy.

 

[CMatt25]

Small c-the building you attend Mass at rather than Church (capitalised), the faith you belong to.

There are plenty of Catholic churches that fully live out the corporal works of mercy (and the spiritual) without compromising their orthodoxy.

Oh you’re talking about changing parishes. That’s easier said than done sometimes at least where I am. First you have the whole question about one’s territorial parish and which ones might be willing to administer the Sacraments to you such as a marriage or which is obligated for instance to offer a funeral and which ones might as a courtesy. In the diocese where I am they have no written policy and some priests don’t care if their parish is your proper one but others do. Then also in my neck of the woods much of what it means to live as a Catholic seems nowadays related to conservative politics including on the passages I quoted.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Oh you’re talking about changing parishes. That’s easier said than done sometimes at least where I am. First you have the whole question about one’s territorial parish and which ones might be willing to administer the Sacraments to you such as a marriage or which is obligated for instance to offer a funeral and which ones might as a courtesy. In the diocese where I am they have no written policy and some priests don’t care if their parish is your proper one but others do. Then also in my neck of the woods much of what it means to live as a Catholic seems nowadays related to conservative politics including on the passages I quoted.

Yes, my mistake, should have said parishes.

Surely you just need a copy of your Baptismal certificate/ confirmation from your current parish priest that you are a Catholic, and then you are free to attend any Catholic church you like, without the need for being on their ‘books’?

The issue is a lot less complicated here in the UK anyway.

The conservative/liberal thing can be a pain. Does your church have an SVP branch?

 

[Erich]

Will not be responding to this further as this can quickly lead to off topic and we will likely never agree anyway. But just since you brought up amendments. The 14th states liberty can not be denied by the states. And the 9th states the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights. Peace.

In what some call a denial of a basic civil right, a Missouri man has been told he may not marry his long-term companion. Although his situation is unique, the logic of his argument is remarkably similar to that employed by advocates of homosexual marriage.

The man claims that the essential elements of marriage–love and commitment–are indeed present:“She’s gorgeous. She’s sweet. She’s loving. I’m very proud of her. … Deep down, way down, I’d love to have children with her.”

Why is the state of Missouri, as well as the federal government, displaying such heartlessness in denying the holy bonds of wedlock to this man and his would-be “wife”?

It seems the state of Missouri is not prepared to indulge a man who waxes eloquent about his love for a 22-year-old mare named Pixel.

By your logic, the 14th should allow this and the 9th should guarantee this?!?!?