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Bookcat
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The person here in question is not a Catechumen. The RCIA per se is for Catechumens. Not per se for Christians who are seeking full communion with the Catholic Church.
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Bookcat
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I agree that a baptized Christian does not have to per se go through RCIA and can have a shorter journey as per needed in their case and thus be received after a shorter time an not at the Easter Vigil (which as I recall is for Catechumens to be baptized etc at).
I would not say they willie nille can just go to confession for they have not been received into full communion --but I would think that yes they seek to go sooner than normal and they can indeed seek to be received sooner than waiting say a year etc depending on their situation.
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Bookcat
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From Catholic Answers: catholic.com/documents/how-to-become-a-catholic
(now this is from 2004 may be newer documents than those referred to – this is not my background so I am unsure -but this will give a good deal of information)
(now this is from 2004 may be newer documents than those referred to – this is not my background so I am unsure -but this will give a good deal of information)
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tafan
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I think the “sticking as much as possible to standardization” is part of the problem. Your analogy to marriage prep is quite good, IMO. Having gone through marriage prep not too many moons ago, and having gone through all the RCIA process as a sponsor of a good friend, I can comment on both if them. There are lots if hurdles to the marraiage prep, but what works is that it is almost all done one-on-one ( well one on two,ha) . The “test” the couple has to take, and then the follow up review sessions ( with a deacon in my case)are very good. The interviews with the priest are quite good. The only thing that was worthless, IMO, was the thing most like the whole of the RCIA process: the encounter weekend, done in a group setting and taught by very well-intentioned, but obviously amateur volunteers. However, all-in-all, one cannot how through the process and not at the least understand what a catholic marriage is all about.
The RCIA process was almost all ( excepting the liturgical rites) done in group classes and invariably by well-intentioned amateurs. Oh, they had all been trained by the diocese, but were no way qualified to give meaningful instructions of the faith. In every topic, they consistently left out some of the most important points.
Certainly most patishes marry more couples than people brought into the faith via RCIA. So why is individual instruction (by “professionals”)not a key component of the process?
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Canuck000
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I entered the Church Easter 2013. There were 15 in the class. Only 2 were not baptized. 3 were protestant pastors. All in the full class together, and all went through at Easter including an 89 year old woman whom attended all classes with us for 8 months and 6 months prior to that of enquiry. I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. If the OP feels a need to confess that’s wonderful! Talk to the priest and go.
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Jon_S_1
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I must say 95% of my education has come from a lot of self study before inquiry, Catholic Answers and Word on Fire. Most of my RCIA has been very elementary . That said I love the community and will most likely wait until Easter but will discuss with my priest about going to confession.
(If he says to wait for the group maybe I will just sneak over to a neighboring parish
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tafan
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Wow, thanks for this. The following really caught my eye, does not seemed followed at all around here, and may be very pertinent to the OP:
"For those who have been instructed in the Christian faith and have lived as Christians, the situation is different. The U.S. Conference of Bishops states, “Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate” (NSC 31). For this reason, they should not share in the same, full RCIA programs that catechumens do.
The timing of their reception into the Church also is different. The U.S. Conference of Bishops states, "It is preferable that reception into full communion not take place at the Easter Vigil lest there be any confusion of such baptized Christians with the candidates for baptism, possible misunderstanding of or even reflection upon the sacrament of baptism celebrated in another church or ecclesial community . . . " (NSC 33).
Rather than being received on Easter Vigil, “[t]he reception of candidates into the communion of the Catholic Church should ordinarily take place at the Sunday Eucharist of the parish community, in such a way that it is understood that they are indeed Christian believers who have already shared in the sacramental life of the Church and are now welcomed into the Catholic Eucharistic community . . .” (NSC 32). "
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Jon_S_1
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Wow very interesting.
It seems confirmation would potentially take place at a later time?
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tafan
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I read the opposite into it, the profession of faith and confirmation should, if anything, take place earlier for candidates. Assuming proper preparation, there is no reason at all to wait until the Easter vigil, and very good reasons not to wait.
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Jon_S_1
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I guess I was just reading it as first communion could take place more informally at a Sunday liturgy (earlier than Easter) and maybe confirmation is done later? With the Bishop?
My parish’s RCIA Program is pretty big and established and relatively good compared to others, and it’s a large parish so I’m not so sure they would make a change.
I don’t mind waiting for Eucharist and communion, I feel it is a time to prepare and soak up the significance,
I would just really love to go to confession and receive the immense graces from the sacrament and to help my accountability.
Not to mention I’ve committed do many mortal sins since my baptism 12 years ago.
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mlz
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I am a convert. I was evangelical, then Lutheran but still strong in my evangelical ties. I live in a small town with one Catholic Church. I went in to visit with the priest who knew my “journey” from others and spent only a few visits with him answering some questions I had and then told me I could come into the Church any time. I chose Feb.11 and was received into the Church! I was a baptized believer in Christ who demonstrated that I knew and understood the Catholic faith. (I’d been studying on my own for 3 years…which had been observed prior to my going to the priest) Of course it depends on your priest but it also depends on how much more you want to learn before becoming Catholic. I continue to want to learn more and more. (so many Catholics are quite “ho-hum” about learning more…I think it might be a convert mentality!)
Anyhow…I also have a question to all here…my husband who has accompanied me to Church for over 2 years would like to go to Confession, but is not yet Catholic, can he???
I’d like to say he could go but not receive absolution until converting…but I could be wrong. Any thoughts??
mlz
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tafan
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Assuming your husband is catholic:
That is a much more difficult question. First of all, if by “converting” you mean entering into full comminion with the church, then , as demonstrated on this thread, the answer is : he does not have to wait that long.
OTH, if by converting, you simply mean taking the necessary steps start the process of becoming catholic and making a firm decision to follow through, I think the answer is he should wait until then. Although the canon appears to me to be even more liberally disposed than that, but I suppose it depends on the definition if the “Christian faithful” in the context of that canon ( see above post ).
Talk to a priest.
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mlz
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I’ve talked to our priest and he seems to think he can, but then isn’t sure…he says he’ll check on this but never seems to have the time to do it, or forgets. I just wish my husband would become Catholic as he seems to me to be more solidly Catholic than some Catholics I know…but wants to confess first?! From my thinking he should become or intend to become Catholic first…but that’s only what I think needs to be done. Perhaps I should ask another priest?
Thank you for responding
mlz
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Bookcat
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dans0622
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Hello,
When the Code of canon law speaks of “the Christian faithful” it means Catholics. Unfortunately (yet typically) this is not explicitly stated in the Code. It is implicit in canon 11, which says ecclesiastical laws bind Catholics. It was explicitly stated during the process of writing the Code and I could refer you to that source, if you wish (in Latin…). I’d also point out that it is canon 844 that gives directives as to when non-Catholics can receive the Sacraments of Penance, Eucharist, and Anointing of the sick.
Dan
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tafan
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Thank you very much for this information. That helps clear up some ambiguities, in particular with respect to my response in post number #31.
I suppose that giving confession to baptized non-Catholics prior to their profession of faith and confirmation is covered under 844.4? Certainly receiving confession prior to confirmation and the communion is a grave reason, but it seems a common enough need that it would be defined more explicitly. Am I still missing something?
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Bookcat
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dans0622
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Hello,
Well, not really. I mentioned that canon only to point out that c. 991 was not intended to include all Christians. Basically, canon 844 is for those who are not in the process of converting, but it does provide principles as to when anyone can receive these Sacraments. The RCIA and associated norms address those who desire to join the Church. There, it is only said that Christians should go to Confession sometime before their reception into the Church and first Communion (cf. no. 482 of the RCIA). It is not explicit as far as timing (the link to the Catholic Answers tract also mentions this uncertainty).
For my part, I’d say do it as soon as possible in the process. Why wait? I can’t think of a single, good reason to wait or delay as long as the baptized person wants to confess and has proper beliefs regarding this Sacrament (as it requires in c. 844). Also, I’d say there is no reason for the person to not go to Confession more than once (if needed or desired) before being received into the Church.
Dan
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Phemie
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Actually it’s Canon Law, not the bishop, that gives priests the faculty to confirm those adults they baptize or receive into full communion. Just like it’s canon law that gives them permission to confirm anyone who’s in danger of dying, form a newborn to a centenarian.
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judynurse
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Forum Master: Thank you for that clarification. I thought the Bishops of each Diocese gave the facility to the Priests of their Diocese.
As to the matter of Confession by a non-Catholic, the Canons I have seen quoted on this thread seem to indicate that ANY Christian could go to Confession, if they so wish. Is this correct? Also, can a non-Baptized person go to Confession if they accept the validity of that Sacrament, whether Christian, Baptized, or not?
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