Can a Catholic disagree about Global Warming?

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We also know that the IPCC computer models show a variety of forecasts for the year 2100. They show extremes of as much as six degrees higher than now, although their “most likely” scenario is about one degree more than now. [The variety of forecasts allows the “religious AGW” people to “pick their forecast” for whatever desired political outcome they happen to “believe” in.]

The “problem” is that if the 100 year forecast is 1º more than now, and if the data recording instruments www.surfacestations.org ] show reading of as much as 5º too high [because of badly placed instruments, new thermal retentive paint on the cabinet, reflective pavement creating an oven-like effect, etc.], then if the models are corrected for the bad data, it would appear that the correct future temperature would be a -4º … cooler than now … not a +1º warmer than now.
 
I once worked for the largest wind turbine company in the world. According to the engineers I spoke with there, there is plenty of wind in the US to power all of our utilities, and it is cost competitive with oil. I have no idea if this is true, but that is the claim made.
There is a nuclear power plant in Texas that generates 2.5 MW. In order for windmills to replace just that one plant they would have to cover an area the size of Rhode Island. This is because the “energy density” of nuclear plants is over 50 times greater than wind farms.
Without getting too political, the point I am trying to make is that, sure… we can disagree on the issue of global warming, but there is a larger moral issue which is simply good stewardship, which inheres regardless of global warming or not global warming.
The issue is not whether we should be good stewards but what should a good steward do? The debate is not between those who care and those who don’t, it is between those who disagree on the probable outcome of the choices before us.
When the actual cost of producing oil is calculated, then the alternatives are cheaper are at least competitive. When you add in the cost of the environmental damage, the the alternatives are a fraction of the cost of oil.
This is a good example of the point I just made. I disagree with this assessment; I think it is completely wrong. There is no moral issue involved (which is why there is no “Church” position on the issue); it is a question of who’s facts are correct.

Ender
 
As someone who has gone through a year of training to be an electrician, the subject of “Global Warming” and alternate/clean energy has been fairly important to me, and a major consideration in my field.

As the graph posted above shows, temperatures do change, and have changed dramatically for thousands of years. The issue with global warming, is that scientists and politicians are jumping the gun, in spite of the evidence AGAINST global warming, and are demanding that incandescent bulbs be banned, and gas powered cars be weeded out in favor of electrical, hydrogen or Ethanol.

Geothermal energy accounts for about 7% of global electrical production, and other methods like solar and wind account for less than 1%. I’m all for producing electricity in a clean and efficient manner, but it simply isn’t possible at this time, and taxing companies that produce emissions, or burn fossil fuels is just unfair. For the consumer, while fluorescent lights, and CFLs seem attractive, not everyone wants a light that contains mercury in their home. As of now, the safest and most efficient lighting method is the LED light, but LEDs are expensive, and a lot of people can’t afford them.

The fact that there is so much pressure from the global warming group, both politically and socially, should be a warning that we are rushing towards temporary “fixes”, with little logic put into them. There is much fervor over pollution from the car and factory industry, yet the greatest “offenders” are actually cows and other animals used for meat.

Watch this video: youtube.com/watch?v=Wq58zS4_jvM

It’s kind of funny, but it’s mostly just scary. The idea that anti-warming regulations might be enforced in just this way, should be sobering to those who blindly rush towards fixing a problem that isn’t what it seems. If anything, the greatest danger posed by pollution and CO2 emissions is the effect on people’s health. Pollution is never a good thing, and if we can begin to use clean energy and safer materials in our everyday products, then I’m all for it. I’m just not for more government regulation, or making criminals of people who can’t afford the latest “green” fad, or perhaps don’t consider them safe, as in the case of CFLs.

Whatever your stance on global warming, please don’t make it political, and don’t make it religious. We should be careful not to pollute the Earth, but it’s not as simple as it sounds, and until solar and wind energy is efficient enough to be used on a much larger scale, clean energy for the world will be a distant dream.

Oh and I should add, yes a Catholic can disagree on global warming. It makes me sad that anyone would even have to ask this question, as it shows just how much guilt has been infused into people about this subject, and how many lies have been spread in its name.

Also thanks for making a great point Ender. Your are absolutely correct about wind/solar farms compared to fossil fuel and hydroelectric methods. Gas, coal, nuclear and oil methods not only produce much more electricity, but they also produce it on a constant basis. Solar and wind are fantastic, but they vary greatly. A solar farm at peak capacity may generate enough electricity to power a medium sized city, but at minimum capacity, they may only generate enough for a small town, which means wind and solar farms usually have to supplement other methods, or be so big, that even at minimum capacity they are sufficient.

Thankfully, new technology in wind and solar power is in the works that will push efficiency to new heights, and allow us to generate much more electricity with the same amount of land and panels/turbines required.
 
The earth has been warming since the last ice age.
This is NOT due to the use of fossil fuels. It is George Bush’s fault.
 
There is a nuclear power plant in Texas that generates 2.5 MW. In order for windmills to replace just that one plant they would have to cover an area the size of Rhode Island. This is because the “energy density” of nuclear plants is over 50 times greater than wind farms.
The issue is not whether we should be good stewards but what should a good steward do? The debate is not between those who care and those who don’t, it is between those who disagree on the probable outcome of the choices before us.
This is a good example of the point I just made. I disagree with this assessment; I think it is completely wrong. There is no moral issue involved (which is why there is no “Church” position on the issue); it is a question of who’s facts are correct.

Ender
Ender, I hope you realize that your position is that poisoning the planet is good stewardship. Yes, this is a moral issue. If the Church has no opinion on the topic of pollution, then it is being irresponsible, just as it has been on many other moral issue. The history of the Church in that respect does not bear scrutiny.
 
Ender, I hope you realize that your position is that poisoning the planet is good stewardship. Yes, this is a moral issue. If the Church has no opinion on the topic of pollution, then it is being irresponsible, just as it has been on many other moral issue. The history of the Church in that respect does not bear scrutiny.
If you are arguing that we should just shutdown all nuclear reactors, and coal/oil/gas powerplants, because they are polluting the planet, then well, I’m sorry you feel that way. Technology can’t advance to pure clean energy without the use of “dirty” methods, as there would be little or no power available to use for research, work, or anything else. We’re just going to have to hold out until wind and solar energy methods because more commonplace. You can’t jump start it by banning methods that cause pollution.

Oh and I just realized you included an off-topic slight to the Church in your post. Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your position as to how the Church has been lacking in other moral teachings? Is it because the Church does teach a “Animals>Humans” mindset? Because that’s a common stance among people who apparently hate themselves so much, they’ve decided that all mankind is unworthy of sympathy.
 
Ender, I hope you realize that your position is that poisoning the planet is good stewardship. Yes, this is a moral issue. If the Church has no opinion on the topic of pollution, then it is being irresponsible, just as it has been on many other moral issue. The history of the Church in that respect does not bear scrutiny.
Just as the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath; the earth was made for man and not man for the earth. This does not mean that we are free to be irresponsible but it also does not mean that we should place the earth above ourselves.
 
Some scientists are saying that the sun is more active and so we have a global warming.

The carbon theory makes a false prediction about the temperatures in the atmosphere.
Because the theory says that the carbon keeps the light on the earth, in some heights the temperature must be warmer than other heights but that is not the case.

Maybe???
(But I am not sure because I have not calculated myself.)
 
Is disagreeing about Global Warming the same as disagreeing about the Iraq War?
“Global Warming” is a scientific and not theological question… Until the science is answered for (it’s not) there is really no clear moral position. I would say a prosition of prudent environmentalism would fit in general. That is you don’t try to just waste away the planet needlessly, but still untilize what is needed to ensure a decent quality of life for as many people.
 
It’s important to do the reading; here is something important about the Milankovitch cycle that determines many of the phenomena that the greens say are man-made.

Well, you need to know about the Milankovitch cycle:

motls.blogspot.com/2010/07/in-defense-of-milankovitch-by-gerard.html

Excerpt:

Just to remind you, the Milankovitch cycles** are periodic astrophysical or orbital phenomena that were claimed by Milutin Milankovitch to explain the glaciation cycles - the ice ages and the interglacials. The idea is that these cycles change the amount of sunshine near the Arctic circle which was claimed by the Serbian scholar to be globally important.

In particular, the axial tilt is changing between 22° and 24° or so with the periodicity of 41,000 years. The precession takes 26,000 years to be completed. The eccentricity variations take something like 100,000 years: recall that eccentricity measures how “non-circular” (elliptic) the Earth’s orbit around the Sun is. And there are a few other, less important cycles with similar periodicities.

** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
 
Ender, I hope you realize that your position is that poisoning the planet is good stewardship. Yes, this is a moral issue. If the Church has no opinion on the topic of pollution, then it is being irresponsible, just as it has been on many other moral issue. The history of the Church in that respect does not bear scrutiny.
No, I don’t realize that at all, and actually I find the charge silly given that my “position” was nothing more that a statement of fact: a wind turbine farm large enough to produce the power generated by that one nuclear plant in Texas would have to be as large as the state of Rhode Island. As for “poisoning the planet”, this bit of hyperbole implies that you don’t know how to discuss the issue seriously.

Ender
 
No, I don’t realize that at all, and actually I find the charge silly given that my “position” was nothing more that a statement of fact: a wind turbine farm large enough to produce the power generated by that one nuclear plant in Texas would have to be as large as the state of Rhode Island. As for “poisoning the planet”, this bit of hyperbole implies that you don’t know how to discuss the issue seriously.

Ender
Personally I’m all for prudent environmentalism… After all, before all our environmental laws went into effect we had a very bad situation in this country indeed… Cuyahoga River Fire for instance is an excellent example of how shamefully bad things had gotten. And indeed they would get that bad again but for some legal protection in place (see Walmart river poisoning).

All that said, I definetly feel that there is a falsified sense of urgency today. The fact is there are a lot of scientists out there who desperatly need funding, in order to get it they sound all manner of environmental alarm bell. It’s so bad today, that there is a growing popular sentament (at least in some circles) to push a world wide one child per couple policy, and kill off the human race…

After all, humans are nothing but a blight upon the planet right? :rolleyes: I think a lot of people need to take a step back, and reconsider the current state of “environmentalism”. Nuclear power isn’t as unsafe as many would have you think, though admittingly there is still the problem of what to do with the waste. I don’t believe the problem is unsolveable, and we should work towards doing so.
 
No, I don’t realize that at all, and actually I find the charge silly given that my “position” was nothing more that a statement of fact: a wind turbine farm large enough to produce the power generated by that one nuclear plant in Texas would have to be as large as the state of Rhode Island. As for “poisoning the planet”, this bit of hyperbole implies that you don’t know how to discuss the issue seriously.

Ender
This is pretty much the stance of the Greenhouse Gas/Global warming/climate change /wonder what they will call it next week crowd. The world is divided into two camps-the deniers and the enlightened . There is no need for the enlightened to prove their point-its settled science and only those who are ignorant or pawns of the greedy evil oil industry dispute them.

The truth is Fossil fuel has been the greatest boon to the advancement of man in History. Its use has lifted billions to a higher standard of living and bought technological advances in every field in science.
 
👍
This is pretty much the stance of the Greenhouse Gas/Global warming/climate change /wonder what they will call it next week crowd. The world is divided into two camps-the deniers and the enlightened . There is no need for the enlightened to prove their point-its settled science and only those who are ignorant or pawns of the greedy evil oil industry dispute them.

The truth is Fossil fuel has been the greatest boon to the advancement of man in History. Its use has lifted billions to a higher standard of living and bought technological advances in every field in science.
👍
 
When I started looking into climate change, I narrowed the question down to “Is antropogenic (man made) CO2 causing significant warming?” Here is what I discovered:
  1. Most of the gases in our atmosphere, such as nitrogen, do not absorb heat. Those that do are called green house gasses, and without them the earth would be too cold for life.
  2. The most plentiful green house gas is water vapour at about 95%. C02 comes in at around 3%. About 40% of this CO2 is anthropogenic, so our contribution of C02 comes to about 1.5% of total green house gasses. CO2 has a slightly higher index of heat absorption than water vapour, but even factoring this in our net effect is still only 3-4% of green house heating. If we stopped all CO2 production, a 3 degree rise in global temp would become a 2.9 degree rise. Big deal.
  3. I recently discovered that the green house gas movement was not started by hippies, or scientists, but by certain British aristocrats and royalty. Seems as if these wealthy men had invested in nuclear and natural gas companies. At one time coal was used almost universally to generate electricity. The coal industry had cleaned itself up and was emitting only C02 and water vapour. The other pollutants were being caught in filters and used to make asphalt, gypsum, etc. The green house theory favoured nuclear and natural gas and made coal unpopular since it produced C02. Thus coal, the cheapest form of electricity production, is now down to 36% of the market. As they say, follow the money.
 
This is pretty much the stance of the Greenhouse Gas/Global warming/climate change /wonder what they will call it next week crowd. The world is divided into two camps-the deniers and the enlightened . There is no need for the enlightened to prove their point-its settled science and only those who are ignorant or pawns of the greedy evil oil industry dispute them.

The truth is Fossil fuel has been the greatest boon to the advancement of man in History. Its use has lifted billions to a higher standard of living and bought technological advances in every field in science.
Thumbs up for this post. 👍

Fossil fuels have been, and will continue to be our primary source of electrical energy until solar, wind, and fuel cell/Bloom energy becomes effective enough to be practical on a large scale. We’ll have to continue to use fossil fuels until we have viable alternatives that are just as good, there’s no getting around it.

In the meantime, if you find that it would be cost effective and safe to go for different lights, or maybe a solar panel or hybrid car, awesome, but it’s not an immediate necessity, no matter what anyone says.
 
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