Can a Catholic take communion at a Lutheran Church?

[Timidity]

slinky1882:

On Transsubstatiation versus consubstatiation, the difference lies in does the bread and wine truly change into the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ or whether He is only symbollically present.

No, that’s not right. Many protestants believe the “symbol only” thing, but not Lutherans.

 

[slinky1882]

Timidity:

No, that’s not right. Many protestants believe the “symbol only” thing, but not Lutherans.

Hey, which part wasn’t right out of the quote you picked out??? Thanks (always leanring and asking questions) and God Bless.

 

[SouthCoast]

Lutherans don’t believe symbolically. That’s not what Consubstantiation means. It means that the bread & wine become the Body & Blood during communion, but they are still bread and wine. Catholics believe that they are no longer bread or wine at all, but are literally Christ’s Body & Blood. I agree, it’s a fine line, but it has significance when you get deep into understanding your faith. It also has particular meaning when you realize that once a Host is consecrated in a Catholic church, it remains the Body of Christ. Not just for that mass, but for all time until consumed and digested or properly disposed of by clergy. For Lutherans, once communion is over, the leftover bread & wine are bread and wine again in their belief.

In any case, it isn’t this difference in beliefs that is the issue. The issue is the lack of valid Holy Orders for Lutherans. Meaning, for them it is never anything but bread and wine, because their priests have no ability to consecrate. They have no valid Holy Orders.

-Michael

 

[Phil_H]

Hadoque:

I don´t see any difference in Communion in a Catholic church or a Lutheran church. Both believes in the real precence of Christ in the bread and the wine unlike many Protestant churches.

The Lutheran church was Catholic until it turned Lutheran and nothing has changed since then in the Lutherans way of understanding the Communion. Has something changed in the Catholic church in the way the Communion is understood after the reformation?

It also would be easier to understand if the requirements for receiving Communion in the Catholic church would be reserved only for members in the Catholic church but it allows members of the Orthodox church to receive Communion in the Catholic church but not Lutherans? This is the thing that is most difficult for me to understand I think. (The same thing vice versa about Cahtolics allowed to receive Communion in the Orthodox church but not in a Lutheran church).

Who changed their view on the Communion? As far as I know there has been no alterations in the Lutheran Church of Sweden since the reformation regarding the true presence of Christ in the the bread and the wine so the Catholic church must then have changed their view upon the Communion after the reformation???

Hadoque

Amen!

 

[Phil_H]

UKcatholicGuy:

Catholics are not permitted to take communion at any other church besides the Catholic Church, obviously, and also the Orthodox church. Lutherans have a different understanding of the eucharist, so it would be inappropriate for a Catholic to take communion at a lutheran church. However, im sure theres no problem with them attending the lutheran service.

I have experienced how sad this dogma is at my Uncle’s funeral. My cousins wife asked her priest this question and was told they could not take communion at the memorial service for my Uncle at an Episcopal Church. None of his grandchildren went up to take communion at their own grandfather’s funeral because of this. When I saw my cousin and his brother at the alter alone and none of the grandchildren moving I went up to join them. Communion is something that we do in rememberance of the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is sad that we have these rules about who can take it and at what church. Isn’t remembering the death and resurrection of our Saviour enough reason to do it as often as possbile as long as it is in a Christian church?

 

[SL20]

Do the Orthodox view Catholics as having valid sacraments?

And what other churches (if any) does the Catholic Church reconize as having valid sacraments and apostolic succession?

thanks

 

[Hadoque]

Hey, Part of the problem with the Lutherans versus say the Orthodox and Catholicism is that you can trace an unbroken line of ordination through the bishops. The Lutheran Church when it broke away lost the line of ordination.

I could understand that from a Catholic perspective but still do not understand why the Orthodox churh in that matter would be considered valid since they also broke away from the Catholic church and do not recognize the Pope as the leader of their church. What is the difference between Lutherans and Orthodox then? The Bishops in the Swedish Lutheran church was ordained by the Pope before the break from the Catholic church and have remained in “apostolic order” in that way just as much as the Bishops of the Orthodox church.

Out of curiousity, when was the Lutheran Church of Sweden founded as I am not familiar with that branch of Lutherans??? (Because Luther orignally spread his ideas through what is now roughly Germany).

Sweden was proclaimed a sole Lutheran belief country in 1529, before that Sweden had been a Catholic country. Not much changed in the Swedish church after the reformation. Sweden was proclaimed a Lutheran country by King Gustav Wasa of political reasons. His son who later became King, Johan III was married to a Catholic princess (Katherina of Jagelonnica) and showed a lot of respect and interest for the Catholic church as King even though Sweden was proclaimed Lutheran and he kept Lithurgy and Church as they were before the reformation. This is unique for any Lutheran church in all Europe. That is why I know that the view upon the Communion was NOT changed in the Church of Sweden despite that it had becomed Lutheran. The Church of Sweden kept most rules, lithurgy and traditions that it had before the reformation. The main change was that the Bishops no longer had to be appointed by the Pope.

Hadoque

 

[steve_b]

Phil H:

I have experienced how sad this dogma is at my Uncle’s funeral. My cousins wife asked her priest this question and was told they could not take communion at the memorial service for my Uncle at an Episcopal Church. None of his grandchildren went up to take communion at their own grandfather’s funeral because of this. When I saw my cousin and his brother at the alter alone and none of the grandchildren moving I went up to join them. Communion is something that we do in rememberance of the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is sad that we have these rules about who can take it and at what church. Isn’t remembering the death and resurrection of our Saviour enough reason to do it as often as possbile as long as it is in a Christian church?

Phil,

Even when your uncle was alive, if he asked a Catholic relative to attend the Episcopal church with him, the Catholic could not receive communion there.

1. Catholics are not permitted to take an indifferent view of the holy Eucharist. Catholics can’t just go to any church outside the Catholic Church and receive their “communion”. That would be like saying all forms of Eucharist are equally valid, when they are not. The only exception is where the sacrament is valid, i.e. an Orthodox Church.
2. The Episcopal church has not retained valid holy orders, therefore they don’t have a valid Eucharist. That’s why a Catholic can’t receive in an Episcopal church.

 

[Hadoque]

Catholics are not permitted to take communion at any other church besides the Catholic Church

For a Catholic to participate in communion at a Luthern Church would be gravley sinful

People who are not a member of the LMCS are NOT WELCOME to take communion in an LMCS Lutheran Church.

and so on…

Jesus welcomed everyone around his table no matter where they came from or what they had done before.

I still wonder why I can not receive the Holy Communion together with my wife when we have the same believe of the Communion, even if she is Catholic and I am Lutheran. The holy Communion has not changed in the Church of Sweden.

Hadoque

 

[BlestOne]

I believe that the difference between the Catholic and Lutheran (MO Synod) beliefs is basically Catholics believe that the bread and wine is made flesh and blood when the priest consecrates them while the Lutherans(MO Synod) believe that it is still bread and wine until you partake in communion i.e. when you receive communion. Although they both believe in the true presence, this would be a major difference theologically. Because of this we are not permitted to take communion as Catholics in a Lutheran service as the Eucharist is the center of our Catholic celebration of mass.

 

[Malachi4U]

The Lutheran sect is in schism and the comunion is invalid. Participation in it would not be right.

NO is the only answer for a Christian Catholic.

Would it be OK for an American to to participate with Osama Bin Laden knowing what he wants?

 

[mean_owen]

Malachi4U:

The Lutheran sect is in schism and the comunion is invalid. Participation in it would not be right.

NO is the only answer for a Christian Catholic.

Would it be OK for an American to to participate with Osama Bin Laden knowing what he wants?

Lutherans are to Catholics as Osama is to Americans? Yikes. I’ll be more careful around them. Too bad, too; they have such nice pot-lucks.

 

[carol_marie]

Malachi4U:

The Lutheran sect is in schism and the comunion is invalid. Participation in it would not be right.

NO is the only answer for a Christian Catholic.

Would it be OK for an American to to participate with Osama Bin Laden knowing what he wants?

You’ve gotta be kidding me??? The sweet Lutherans who meet on Sunday up the road are similar to the madmen who flew planes on 9/11 into buildings killing thousands??? If that’s seriously how you feel about other Christians I think a little therapy is in order.

 

[sparkle]

Without reading any posts on this thread, my initial reaction, is of course, we Catholics can and should take communion in any church. For we know it IS the body and blood of Christ, all the same. They just don’t know the complete and utter FULLNESS or how it was intended, that doesn’t mean, IMO we should shun it.

 

[sparkle]

UKcatholicGuy:

Catholics are not permitted to take communion at any other church besides the Catholic Church, obviously, and also the Orthodox church. Lutherans have a different understanding of the eucharist, so it would be inappropriate for a Catholic to take communion at a lutheran church. However, im sure theres no problem with them attending the lutheran service.

What do you mean, “Catholics are not permitted”…I’ve never heard this before, think it most ridiculous. Please supply me with your authority on this.

 

[Sanctus]

John Paul II’s Ecclesia De Eucharistia

From section 30:

“The Ecclesial Communities separated from us lack that fullness of unity with us which should flow from Baptism, and we believe that especially because of the lack of the sacrament of Orders they have not preserved the genuine and total reality of the Eucharistic mystery. Nevertheless, when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper, they profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and they await his coming in glory”.62

The Catholic faithful, therefore, while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations, so as not to condone an ambiguity about the nature of the Eucharist and, consequently, to fail in their duty to bear clear witness to the truth. This would result in slowing the progress being made towards full visible unity. Similarly, it is unthinkable to substitute for Sunday Mass ecumenical celebrations of the word or services of common prayer with Christians from the aforementioned Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in their own liturgical services. Such celebrations and services, however praiseworthy in certain situations, prepare for the goal of full communion, including Eucharistic communion, but they cannot replace it.

Again, in section 46:

These conditions, from which no dispensation can be given, must be carefully respected, even though they deal with specific individual cases, because the denial of one or more truths of the faith regarding these sacraments and, among these, the truth regarding the need of the ministerial priesthood for their validity, renders the person asking improperly disposed to legitimately receiving them. And the opposite is also true: Catholics may not receive communion in those communities which lack a valid sacrament of Orders.98

give me a moment and I’ll find more

 

[Sanctus]

The following is an article from Catholic Exchange which addresses this problem and lists several citations…to find this article click here:

The Second Vatican Council in its Dogmatic Constitution on the Church described the Mass — “the Eucharistic sacrifice” — as “the source and summit of the Christian life” (No. 11). As Catholics, we truly believe that the Sacrifice of the Mass, transcending the limits of time and space, sacramentally makes present anew the sacrifice of the Lord: “The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the Cross is perpetuated, and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood” (Catechism, No. 1382). By the will of the Heavenly Father, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the priesthood of Jesus Christ, which is entrusted through the Sacrament of Holy Orders to His priest who acts in His person, bread and wine truly become (i.e. are transubstantiated into) the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord.

One of the great fruits of Holy Communion, according to the Catechism (No. 1396), is that the Holy Eucharist makes the Church: “Those who receive the Eucharist are united more closely to Christ. Through it, Christ unites them to all the faithful in one body — the Church. Communion renews, strengthens, and deepens this incorporation into the Church, already achieved by Baptism.” Therefore, the reception of Holy Communion truly unites in communion the Catholic faithful who share the same faith, doctrinal teachings, traditions, sacraments, and leadership.

Given this foundation, we can address the first question: Can Catholics receive communion in a Protestant Church or vice versa? Vatican Council II recognized that the Protestant Churches “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic Mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the Sacrament of Holy Orders” (Decree on Ecumenism, No. 22). For this very reason, the sharing of Holy Communion between Protestants and Catholics is not possible (Catechism, No. 1400). This statement does not suggest that Protestant Churches do not commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in their communion service or believe that it signifies a communion with Christ. Nevertheless, Protestant theology differs with Catholic theology concerning the Holy Eucharist over the real presence of Christ, transubstantiation, the sacrifice of the Mass, and the nature of the priesthood. For this reason, Protestants, although perhaps upright Christians, may not receive Holy Communion at Mass, and Catholics may not receive communion at a Protestant service.

Our Holy Father in his beautiful encyclical, The Eucharist in its Relationship to the Church (Ecclesia de Eucharistia) taught

continued…

 

[Sanctus]

Continued from here.

The Catholic faithful, while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations, so as not to condone an ambiguity about the nature of the Eucharist and, consequently, to fail in their duty to bear clear witness to the truth. This would result in slowing the progress being made towards full visible unity. Similarly, it is unthinkable to substitute for Sunday Mass ecumenical celebrations of the word or services of common prayer with Christians from the aforementioned Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in their own liturgical services. Such celebrations and services, however praiseworthy in certain situations, prepare for the goal of full communion, including Eucharistic communion, but they cannot replace it. (No. 30)
Objectively speaking, to knowingly violate these precepts by receiving communion in a Protestant Church or neglecting to worship at Mass constitutes a mortal sin.

Therefore, until the differences between Catholics and Protestants are healed, a real “intercommunion” cannot take place. Moreover, out of respect for the differences in belief, a Catholic is obliged to refrain from receiving communion at a Protestant service, and likewise, Protestants, at a Catholic Mass. I remember once I participated at the funeral of a friend at a Protestant church, which included a communion service. The minister invited everyone to receive communion. I refrained out of respect for their beliefs and my own: I did not fully accept all the beliefs or practices of their particular denomination, nor did those members accept all that the Roman Catholic Church believed. Therefore, to receive communion would be to state, “I am in communion with them,” when I was not. Worse yet, had I partaken, I would have received something sacred which should bind me as part of their communion — at least from a Catholic perspective — when in fact I have never participated in one of their services since then.

We must remember that to receive communion does not depend simply on what a person individually believes. To receive communion aligns a person to a church, identifies him as a member of that church, and binds him to what that church teaches. By observing the Church’s regulations concerning receiving Holy Communion, we will better appreciate the gift of the Blessed Sacrament, respect each other’s beliefs, and work towards unity — here is true charity. Ignoring these regulations will only build a false sense of communion and a shallow expression of love, which is really a great act against charity.

 

[Sanctus]

The Code of Canon Law says, "Can. 844 §1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in §§2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2. "§2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

(my emphasis)

From another explination found here.

 

[Sanctus]

Jimmy Akin covers this topic here.