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Abba
Guest
I have told a person that she cannot marry in the Catholic Church until she gives that up, but, I am not sure. How is that handled?
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Lucky10279
Guest
I am not really sure what voodo is. I know if your friend is in mortal sin she cannot marry in the catholic church or recieve any other sacrament except for confession and it sounds like it is a mortal sin if she she has full knowledge and full consent of will.
Mikayla
Mikayla
po18guy
Well-known member
From the Catechism (bolding mine):
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
Such a person is in a state of mortal sin. Such practices must not only be repented of, but confessed in their entirety.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
Such a person is in a state of mortal sin. Such practices must not only be repented of, but confessed in their entirety.
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PattiDay
Guest
You have given her your gut reaction to the practice, which varies widely from one continent to another, and from one family to another. Let her speak with her priest to determine if there are objections to her practice within the Catholic faith. When I was in Brazil, I was very surprised to find a very wonderful Catholic family who integrated some vestiges of their ancestors’ faith with their Catholic faith. It wasn’t a problem with their pastor.
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Abba
Guest
The person ‘practices’ Dominican voodoo which is mixed with Catholicism.
Las Divisiones is not a pagan satanic religion where zombies walk around and a person’s soul can be taken at a moment’s notice. Unbeknownst to many vudu practitioners don’t drink alcohol or consume drugs because it can impede their connection to the spirits and the most practitioners are devout Catholics at their core. Although the country is overwhelmingly Catholic, a majority of Dominicans do embrace some of the features of Vudu while still identifying themselves as exclusively Catholics. Vudu practitioners will admit to their vudu practices, but admit that vudu doesn’t contradict their Catholic beliefs it instead works hand in hand with it. Dominicans often reject the label Vudu considering it “a Haitian thing,” and so a similar religion under a different name, Las 21 Divisiones and Los Misterios, was born. In recent decades vudu has become slightly more acceptable, but it will take more time before the image of the zombies and “voodoo” priest is replaced.
dr1.com/articles/voodoo_1.shtml
It is a ‘practice’ based on the African religion but mixed with Catholicism. The slaves and natives of the ‘colonies’ began to camouflage their religion with Catholicism after Louis XIV forbid the practice of all religions except Catholicism.
The problem I face here is that the practitioners of ‘Los Misterios’, ( they do not even consider themselves practicing voodoo, just the word scares them and they consider it a Haitian diabolic practice) consider themselves Catholics and attend Mass every Sunday, pray the rosary etc…
Las Divisiones is not a pagan satanic religion where zombies walk around and a person’s soul can be taken at a moment’s notice. Unbeknownst to many vudu practitioners don’t drink alcohol or consume drugs because it can impede their connection to the spirits and the most practitioners are devout Catholics at their core. Although the country is overwhelmingly Catholic, a majority of Dominicans do embrace some of the features of Vudu while still identifying themselves as exclusively Catholics. Vudu practitioners will admit to their vudu practices, but admit that vudu doesn’t contradict their Catholic beliefs it instead works hand in hand with it. Dominicans often reject the label Vudu considering it “a Haitian thing,” and so a similar religion under a different name, Las 21 Divisiones and Los Misterios, was born. In recent decades vudu has become slightly more acceptable, but it will take more time before the image of the zombies and “voodoo” priest is replaced.
dr1.com/articles/voodoo_1.shtml
It is a ‘practice’ based on the African religion but mixed with Catholicism. The slaves and natives of the ‘colonies’ began to camouflage their religion with Catholicism after Louis XIV forbid the practice of all religions except Catholicism.
The problem I face here is that the practitioners of ‘Los Misterios’, ( they do not even consider themselves practicing voodoo, just the word scares them and they consider it a Haitian diabolic practice) consider themselves Catholics and attend Mass every Sunday, pray the rosary etc…
po18guy
Well-known member
All appeals to the spirits, to obtain information, knowledge, or favors that we are not granted by God, amounts to entertaining the occult, and places one in violation of the first commandment. It does not matter the practice’s history or cultural acceptability. What matters is the disobedience to God’s first commandment and the appeal to forces of the occult. One of the first things that exorcists will tell you is that this opens the door to the demonic.
A
Abba
Guest
Thank you all for your contribution.
po18guy, I understand. I find it a little complex. Not the teachings of the Church but the situation a lot of people are in. Exactly, that they consider themselves Catholics. It’s not an easy thing to inform a person that all their life have been practicing ‘Catholicism’ incorrectly and considers themselves Catholics. It’s like to attack the most sacred thing for them and their identity.
These situations have been somewhat minimized by the Church in the Dominican Republic in the past twenty years as more and more the laity have been informed.
I think it would be a good thing for this teaching to be included in the catechism booklet used to teach the youth. I think that I will have the opportunity some day to mention this to the Cardinal. I also think that it will be good for catechism to be given to the youth as it is in my archdiocese. That is, two years for preparation for Confirmation; freshman and sophomore years. In the Dominican Republic children attend catechism classes for about three months or so and do their first communion. I forget the length of time exactly, maybe it is six months, But, what they learn is just the basic, the seven sacraments, ten commandments, etc… I am not sure how long a preparation is required for Confirmation but, I do not think that it is for two years during the freshman and sophomore years of high school nor for two to three hours every day covering all sorts of important topics, marriage, chastity etc… I am going to look more into all this but, it seems to me that the catechism could be improved and expanded to cover important topics that affect people.
I think the best way to handle this problem is to avoid it. It is a very difficult thing to tell elderly people that they have been practicing the Catholic faith incorrectly. That is, people who have not been well catechized and live isolated from the churches.
So, are the deity of the African ‘religion’ demons or is it that the Africans had their religion and once they were exposed to Christianity the demons used their faith to do their thing?
Another question: Can a couple that is living together, married by civil law, go to Confession? I understand that they cannot receive the Eucharist, correct?
po18guy, I understand. I find it a little complex. Not the teachings of the Church but the situation a lot of people are in. Exactly, that they consider themselves Catholics. It’s not an easy thing to inform a person that all their life have been practicing ‘Catholicism’ incorrectly and considers themselves Catholics. It’s like to attack the most sacred thing for them and their identity.
These situations have been somewhat minimized by the Church in the Dominican Republic in the past twenty years as more and more the laity have been informed.
I think it would be a good thing for this teaching to be included in the catechism booklet used to teach the youth. I think that I will have the opportunity some day to mention this to the Cardinal. I also think that it will be good for catechism to be given to the youth as it is in my archdiocese. That is, two years for preparation for Confirmation; freshman and sophomore years. In the Dominican Republic children attend catechism classes for about three months or so and do their first communion. I forget the length of time exactly, maybe it is six months, But, what they learn is just the basic, the seven sacraments, ten commandments, etc… I am not sure how long a preparation is required for Confirmation but, I do not think that it is for two years during the freshman and sophomore years of high school nor for two to three hours every day covering all sorts of important topics, marriage, chastity etc… I am going to look more into all this but, it seems to me that the catechism could be improved and expanded to cover important topics that affect people.
I think the best way to handle this problem is to avoid it. It is a very difficult thing to tell elderly people that they have been practicing the Catholic faith incorrectly. That is, people who have not been well catechized and live isolated from the churches.
So, are the deity of the African ‘religion’ demons or is it that the Africans had their religion and once they were exposed to Christianity the demons used their faith to do their thing?
Another question: Can a couple that is living together, married by civil law, go to Confession? I understand that they cannot receive the Eucharist, correct?
po18guy
Well-known member
As sad as it might prove, it is a good decision to stay away. Such combinations of religions and practices always pollutes the truth. There is true power in the spirit realm, and it is this power that is so appealing to many. But, the power does not have its source in God - and there is only one other source.
The long term solution is education. The short term solution is prayer.
Good question. Much is probably a “hangover” of the pre-Christian pagan religions. Until one shuts the door on the past and looks forward, that same past will haunt them. We cannot be free of the occult as long as we leave that door open, or worse, invite spirits through it.
All Catholics can, and are strongly urged to receive the sacrament of reconciliation. However, they must understand that sexual relations outside of marriage (which occurs in most such situations) is gravely sinful. If they decide to confess, they should also decide to repent and make other living arrangements until marriage. Repentance opens the door to forgiveness.
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TrueLight
Guest
They may reject it as a “Haitian thing” but they know exactly what it is. All of these religions with Vodu derivative beliefs, pay homage to Haiti as the capital if you will and some send their acolytes to study there. And since the Dominican Republic share an island with Haiti, they know. They just don’t want to admit it.
Haiti is primarily a Catholic country, but a lot of Catholics practice Vodou as well and that is why Haitian Protestants are so staunchly anti-Catholic.
I know this woman who goes to mass every morning and does Haitian Vodu magic for money. She sees nothing wrong with this and takes communion every day.
Catholicism and Vodou are usually mixed up in these countries.
Basically when the slaves were brought forth from Africa and were Catholicised, they saw similariities between the Saints and the spirits they served, so they superimposed the two religions.
So St Michael for example, is one of the primary spirits of Vodou.
A
Abba
Guest
Happy Easter! I am off to an Easter Banquet (yum, yum). But, I just want to quickly clarify that when I typed ‘avoid’ I meant insofar as to ‘prevent’ and this is why I went on about the need to improve the catechism given now. Personally, it is not something that I would avoid as I am called to serve the Church in the DR and its people. I plan to serve in whatever way I can and if that means being a thorn to some groups or demons - well - so be it.
Also, I meant to type ‘Sunday’ instead of ‘day’ regarding the catechism offered to freshmen and sophomore in my archdiocese. The youth meet after Sunday Mass for an hour and have the option of staying until eight o’clock for Youth Group. I think the catechism is lacking in the DR.
Gotta go…
Peace,
Abba
G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Voodoo dolls and rosaries…bad mix!
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Abba
Guest
Hello PattiDay,
I hope you had a Happy Easter. I am now enjoy the Munson’s chocolate that was inside the basket next to my plate setting; there are white/dark/milk chocolate eggs individually rapped with pretty paper, a nice white chocolate bunny that looks delicious and jelly beans. Yummy. Thank God is not a sin to eat Munson’s chocolate. Okay, I am ready to read and think.
What exactly did your Brazilian friends integrate with Catholicism? I understand the Church evangelizes within cultures and accepts certain things of the culture to be integrated with the practice of Catholicism. This way it is not that the faith of the people is completed alienated from their culture, But, the Church will not permit any cultural phenomenon to be part of the faith as practiced in a country which will cause confusion about the teachings of the Church or that are contrary to the teachings of the Church.
I was reading a report in the Holy See website regarding an international research on unbelief. I find the report from Cuba interesting and the writer.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20031606_doc_ii-2003-ple_en.html He notes that more than 90% of the Cubans consider themselves Catholic but, they are not Catholics in clear terms. They, as a small percentage of Dominicans, combine Catholicism with the African religion and is known in Cuba as ‘Santeria’.
I was reading about syncretism. Amazing! It is worldwide and just about every combination of religion is done. There is even one that takes the thoughts of Nietzsche with occultism, mysticism etc… This is quite a heresy and it is worldwide.
De esta manera, el sincretismo no es un proceso automático fruto del diálogo o de una puesta en común. La realización del sincretismo religioso no surge del acuerdo sino de la cohabitación. El momento en el que dos culturas diferentes se encuentran cara a cara puede provocar un grave conflicto. El sincretismo supone aceptar la situación de crisis y afrontarla en dos etapas: la acomodación y la asimilación.
Thus, syncretism is not an automatic result of dialogue or sharing. The realization of religious syncretism does not arise from agreement but from cohabitation. The time when two different cultures come face to face can cause a serious conflict. Syncretism means accepting the crisis and addressing it in two stages: the accommodation and assimilation.
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sincretismo
The media are now officially “neutral” in religious matters. They do not promote religion but neither do they attack from the front as it was a few years ago. However, the religions of African origin are proposed as the true religion of the Cuban people and subtle efforts are made to separate them from their traditional relationship with the Catholic Church. You might think that this could contribute to the reduction of syncretism (although I’m not sure), but if you took that case, governance, at the cost of more folklorization, syncretism and paganism, and at the same time, deprive the Church of what has been one of its traditional grassroots. I have the impression that this is precisely what the political authorities want in the cultural and religious. Contrary consequences would be provided if the Catholic Church deploys an intelligent work of evangelization that is respectful and purifying of syncretism by the Catholic Church.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20031606_doc_ii-2003-ple_en.html
What a problem, that syncretism is, huh?
I’ll start my white chocolate bunny now.
I hope you had a Happy Easter. I am now enjoy the Munson’s chocolate that was inside the basket next to my plate setting; there are white/dark/milk chocolate eggs individually rapped with pretty paper, a nice white chocolate bunny that looks delicious and jelly beans. Yummy. Thank God is not a sin to eat Munson’s chocolate. Okay, I am ready to read and think.
Yes, this is why I asked. It may appear to most readers of my original post as though the answer is obvious and it should be. However, I also understand that the Church offers pastoral services to people with intelligence and respect to their human dignity. By this I do not mean to insinuate nor imply that the Church is not clear about it’s teachings nor that it is relative to cultures - not at all. If I am not explaining myself, suffice to say that I just thought I ask.
What exactly did your Brazilian friends integrate with Catholicism? I understand the Church evangelizes within cultures and accepts certain things of the culture to be integrated with the practice of Catholicism. This way it is not that the faith of the people is completed alienated from their culture, But, the Church will not permit any cultural phenomenon to be part of the faith as practiced in a country which will cause confusion about the teachings of the Church or that are contrary to the teachings of the Church.
I was reading a report in the Holy See website regarding an international research on unbelief. I find the report from Cuba interesting and the writer.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20031606_doc_ii-2003-ple_en.html He notes that more than 90% of the Cubans consider themselves Catholic but, they are not Catholics in clear terms. They, as a small percentage of Dominicans, combine Catholicism with the African religion and is known in Cuba as ‘Santeria’.
I was reading about syncretism. Amazing! It is worldwide and just about every combination of religion is done. There is even one that takes the thoughts of Nietzsche with occultism, mysticism etc… This is quite a heresy and it is worldwide.
De esta manera, el sincretismo no es un proceso automático fruto del diálogo o de una puesta en común. La realización del sincretismo religioso no surge del acuerdo sino de la cohabitación. El momento en el que dos culturas diferentes se encuentran cara a cara puede provocar un grave conflicto. El sincretismo supone aceptar la situación de crisis y afrontarla en dos etapas: la acomodación y la asimilación.
Thus, syncretism is not an automatic result of dialogue or sharing. The realization of religious syncretism does not arise from agreement but from cohabitation. The time when two different cultures come face to face can cause a serious conflict. Syncretism means accepting the crisis and addressing it in two stages: the accommodation and assimilation.
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sincretismo
The media are now officially “neutral” in religious matters. They do not promote religion but neither do they attack from the front as it was a few years ago. However, the religions of African origin are proposed as the true religion of the Cuban people and subtle efforts are made to separate them from their traditional relationship with the Catholic Church. You might think that this could contribute to the reduction of syncretism (although I’m not sure), but if you took that case, governance, at the cost of more folklorization, syncretism and paganism, and at the same time, deprive the Church of what has been one of its traditional grassroots. I have the impression that this is precisely what the political authorities want in the cultural and religious. Contrary consequences would be provided if the Catholic Church deploys an intelligent work of evangelization that is respectful and purifying of syncretism by the Catholic Church.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20031606_doc_ii-2003-ple_en.html
What a problem, that syncretism is, huh?
I’ll start my white chocolate bunny now.
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