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Sunny
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During a discussion with a friend they mentioned their parish has no permanent priests and therefore bring a deacon in and he celebrates the Mass. Is this possible??
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CantorRick
Guest
No. It’s not possible. A Deacon cannot Preside at the Mass.
He can, however, lead a Eucharistic service outside the Mass whereby Consecrated Host is distributed to the faithful. So too can any Religeous; Sister, Nun or Brother, and for that matter, a Cantor, Choir Director or any lay person trained in the Rite.
Regards,
Richard
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Brendan
Guest
No, a deacon cannot confect the Eucharist and therefore cannot say Mass.
What is most likely the case is that the deacon presides over a Communion Service.
Lectors would read the Reading, the Deacon would read the Gospel and give a homily.
The deacon would then distribute Communion that was consecrated by a priest.
What is most likely the case is that the deacon presides over a Communion Service.
Lectors would read the Reading, the Deacon would read the Gospel and give a homily.
The deacon would then distribute Communion that was consecrated by a priest.
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Freeway4321
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
NO a deacon cannot celebrate Mass!
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Chalice
Guest
Talk about the use of a word with a Protestant background! Ugh! Makes me want to spew!
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Genesis315
Guest
I prefer the term “offer Mass” myself because one offers a sacrifice to God.
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Chatter163
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Yes, I noticed that, too. It was even more noticeable because the original question used the term “celebrate Mass” and the later post opted instead to use the jargon “Preside at Mass.”
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CantorRick
Guest
Everybody attending the Mass “celebrates!”Yes, I noticed that, too. It was even more noticeable because the original question used the term “celebrate Mass” and the later post opted instead to use the jargon “Preside at Mass.”
Only the Priest Celebrant can “Preside”, i.e. recite the presidential prayers.
In a Con-celebrated Mass, the make-up is slightly different but the distribution of responsibility is the same.
Regards,
Richard
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Deacon_Ed
Guest
Um…just to be a little clearer. Everyone at Mass serves Mass, Christ celebrates. Because the priest acts in persona Christi he, too, is said to “celebrate” and, because we are united to Christ through baptism we can be said to “celebrate.” However, we really serve Mass.
Because of this confusion of function the Church has choosen to use the term “presider” because he “presides” at Mass (a term that formerly referred only to the bishop when he attended Mass in choir dress). BTW, the Protestants got it from us.
Deacon Ed
Because of this confusion of function the Church has choosen to use the term “presider” because he “presides” at Mass (a term that formerly referred only to the bishop when he attended Mass in choir dress). BTW, the Protestants got it from us.
Deacon Ed
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Chalice
Guest
How I detest this sorta misdirection. Do you happen to be part of the “liturgy committee” at my parish perchance?
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cameron_lansing
Guest
It may help to know that the term “presiding” is used in canon 899§2. Several several conciliar sources underlie it (SC 14, 26,33, PO 5) and the 1970 general instructions of the Roman Missal (IGMR 2,7,58,59). I have not consulted the 2000 GIRM in Latin but someone could.
“In eucharistica Synaxi populus Dei in unum convocatur, Episcopo aut, sub eius auctoritate,** presbytero praeside, personam Christi gerente** (a presbyter presiding and acting in the person of Christ), atque omnes qui intersunt** fideles, sive clerici sive laici**, suo quisque modo pro ordinum et liturgicorum munerum diversitate, participando concurrunt the faithful whether clerical or lay . . . participating in their own way according to the diversity of orders and liturgical functions.”
“In eucharistica Synaxi populus Dei in unum convocatur, Episcopo aut, sub eius auctoritate,** presbytero praeside, personam Christi gerente** (a presbyter presiding and acting in the person of Christ), atque omnes qui intersunt** fideles, sive clerici sive laici**, suo quisque modo pro ordinum et liturgicorum munerum diversitate, participando concurrunt the faithful whether clerical or lay . . . participating in their own way according to the diversity of orders and liturgical functions.”
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Chatter163
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No one is disputing the fact that a priest presides at Mass. No one is disputing the fact that a priest presides over the liturgical assembly. But the term preside is generic and anyone, even a laywoman, can preside over an assembly, should the need arise. The term priest is far more specific and speaks to the unique role of the priest in offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
The rejection of, or reluctance to use, the term *priest *(or even celebrant, as has been pointed out), a term that the Roman Missal itself uses, demonstrates an agenda that shies away from expressing the sacramental and sacrifical natures of the Mass, in favor of a touchy-feely spirtual creed. In short, it seems ashamed of its own faith.
The rejection of, or reluctance to use, the term *priest *(or even celebrant, as has been pointed out), a term that the Roman Missal itself uses, demonstrates an agenda that shies away from expressing the sacramental and sacrifical natures of the Mass, in favor of a touchy-feely spirtual creed. In short, it seems ashamed of its own faith.
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cameron_lansing
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I disagree that the lay can ever preside, and will address that at the conclusion of this post. The term is only used generically, but it has a precise meaning in the Church. The problem arises either from an agenda or sloppy language.
I tend to agree that there have certainly been some with an agenda that tries to “level” roles and functions in the Church as well as to avoid the sacramental and sacrificial nature of the Mass — exactly as you say. This is what happened in the reformation, with the corruption of language, and everyone should be vigilant.
The issue is also is complicated by our general human tendency to be imprecise in speech and the imprecisions that are inherent in any translation from Latin to English. Frankly a number of translations are all over the place.
The 1997 inter-dicasterial instruction Ecclesiae de mysterio (On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful) took up that very question of language, especially in looking at the term “ministry,” which has both specific meaning as a term of art and also a generic meaning.
As to the use of “priest” regarding the Eucharist, I should also mention that the entire context of that chapter in the code begining with canon 899 §1, the term used elsewhere is “sacerdos (sacerdotes),” which is rendered “priest” and not “presbyter.” The point is that the “sacerdos”, whether as bishop or presbyter has sacred powers to offer sacrifice as a priest. I did not mention this originally since I just wanted to comment on the use of “preside.” But this is worth mentioning.
** As to lay members of the Christian faithful “presiding,” I note the English translation of the instruction uses “lead.”** But I would need to see the original text to say more. In my opinion, for what it’s worth, it would be appropriate to say that laity conduct something, but I’m open to reasoned alternatives.
Hence, the translation of the instruction reads, at a relevant point,** “To avoid any confusion between sacramental liturgical acts presided over by a priest or deacon, and other acts which the non-ordained faithful may lead, it is always necessary to use clearly distinct ceremonials, especially for the latter.”**
Since the instruction distinguishes between presiding and leading, at least in translation, we should as well. Hence in my opinion, to say that the laity preside at liturgy is incorrect. I am open to correction, depending on the original text.
From this I conclude that it is correct to speak of a priest presiding at the Eucharist. But we should be attentive to the context of the person who writes or says that. When the Church says it, it is said correctly, even though others may use it in a different or incorrect sense that levels the sacred and hierarchic nature of the Church to a form of congregationalism.
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