Can a demon posses a priest?

[scimitar60]

True.

Whose influence do you think priests and pastors are under when they sexually molest preteen and teen boys?

Or, a priest who celebrates Eucharist and then gets on the computer to watch child porn.

!!! Does that really happen!? I thought it was just an exaduration made by the media to keep people satisfied with their fetishes for more scandals!

 

[maryharket]

I have Bipolar I and use to experience “mania” and “depression”. My medications have helped the symptoms to “go away”. Please…do not compare mental illness to demonic possesion ! This is an already heavy cross to bear in life…and I do suffer willingly for Our Lord as God makes no mistakes and mental illness is genetic.

Hello 2 Doves

 Yes, I totally agree with you. My sister and husband suffer from mental illness and they have been helped by meds AND are very devout in the faith so let's not do the sweeping generalization thing. Remember, epilepsy was definitely considered to be demonic possession and I myself suffer from it and am also devout. If you read the article that just came out in the NYT a few days ago about a conference of bishops discussion the use of exorcism, while they acknowledge that possession can happen and that Satan and his minions are very real, they stress that this is a very rare phenomena and advise the faithful to hold fast to a good spiritual life and practices to ward off temptation. I used to live in a major city with many schizophrenics walking about yelling at everyone and no-one and I can honestly say I never believed that they were controlled by the enemy-only desperately ill.

Take Care Mary H

 

[BornAgain2010]

Sure, you can have your opinion of it, but Satan and his minions can and do fully bodily possess human beings. That’s not an opinion. That’s fact. And you should accept it as such sooner rather than later.

And yes, I know all about how the Church is able to hammer witches, demons, dragons, anything I’m missing?

Okay, then where are the medical reports and psychological evaluations on it?
And I mean legitimate documents, not these generated falsifications (though some are pretty good fakes). I mean actual documents with actual registered / liscenced doctors and psychologists, etc.

Until I see actual scientific proof, I cant see that demons actually exist.
Sorry but thats just me.

(Also, y’all do know that religion was created as a way of excplaining natural-occurences, right?
i.e. ‘oh, water is falling from the sky! there must be a rain-god.’ Thats how the indians believed it. Of course, we now know that its rain and a natural part of the water cycle. But religion is little more than an explanation for the unknowns.)

But y’all get my point, right?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Okay, then where are the medical reports and psychological evaluations on it?
And I mean legitimate documents, not these generated falsifications (though some are pretty good fakes). I mean actual documents with actual registered / liscenced doctors and psychologists, etc.

Until I see actual scientific proof, I cant see that demons actually exist.

First thing’s first: you’re Catholic. We have a strict teaching about the true existence of Satan and demons since…creation! Before I had assumed you didn’t think demonic possession is real, but you don’t believe demons themselves are real? I hope I can help you out with a simple definition of demonic possession from the Catholic Encyclopedia. God bless.

Man is in various ways subject to the influence of evil spirits. By original sin he brought himself into “captivity under the power of him who thence [from the time of Adam’s transgression] had the empire of death, that is to say, the Devil” (Council of Trent, Sess. V, de pecc. orig., 1), and was through the fear of death all his lifetime subject to servitude (Hebrews 2:15). Even though redeemed by Christ, he is subject to violent temptation: “for our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places” (Ephesians 6:12). But the influence of the demon, as we know from Scripture and the history of the Church, goes further still. He may attack man’s body from without (obsession), or assume control of it from within (possession). As we gather from the Fathers and the theologians, the soul itself can never be “possessed” nor deprived of liberty, though its ordinary control over the members of the body may be hindered by the obsessing spirit (cf. St. Aug., “De sp. et an.”, 27; St. Thomas, “In II Sent.”, d. VIII, Q. i; Ribet, “La mystique divine”, Paris, 1883, pp. 190 sqq.).

newadvent.org/cathen/12315a.htm

P.S. If you think the religion you practice was created as a way to explain “natural occurrences,” you need to get back to catechism class.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Reality of the phenomenon

The infidel policy on the question is to deny the possibility of possession in any circumstances, either on the supposition, that there are no evil spirits in existence, or that they are powerless to influence the human body in the manner described. It was on this principle that, according to Lecky the world came to disbelieve in witchcraft: men did not trouble to analyse the evidence that could be produced in its favour; they simply decided that the testimony must be mistaken because “they came gradually to look upon it as absurd” (op. cit., p. 12). And it is by this same a priori principle, we believe, that Christians who try to explain away the facts of possession are unconsciously influenced. Though put forward once as a commonplace by leaders of materialistic thought, there is a noticeable tendency of late years not to insist upon it so strongly in view of the admission made by competent scientific inquirers that many of the manifestations of Spiritism cannot be explained by human agency (cf. Miller, op. cit., 7-9). But whatever view Rationalists may ultimately adopt, for a sincere believer in the Scriptures there can be no doubt that there is such a thing as possession possible. And if he is optimistic enough to hold that in the present order of things God would not allow the evil spirits to exercise the powers they naturally possess, he might open his eyes to the presence of sin and sorrow in the world, and recognize that God causes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust and uses the powers of evil to promote His own wise and mysterious purposes (cf. Job, passim; Mark 5:19).

Please read whole article: newadvent.org/cathen/12315a.htm

 

[Bookcat]

There is not a “standard” approach here. In the varied exorcists and writers on the subject one will find varied categories of “demonic influence”.

In the past there was basically two categories noted in texts “Obsession” and “Possession” with obsession taking in all the various things outside of possession. Such as in works on “spiritual theology”

Here is one of the spiritual theology texts which lumps things under “obsession” (scroll down):

domcentral.org/study/aumann/st/st14.htm

But exorcists etc today use more categories (which is good)

There are various categories…used currently …but again they can differ somewhat from writer to writer (such as oppression, obsession, possession, infestation of a place–these are generally a good way to do it). Also note that there can be “degrees” of the influence and various “symptoms”…it is not an exact science…

In this …remember Jesus of Nazareth is Lord (no disordered fears!)

 

[FrCorey]

I was chatting with the priest down at the local (catholic) church last week. We were talking about how demons opporate in temptation and attack, and he told me about how they hate praise of God. Consequently he told me that the Glory Be is kind of like a 9-iron to the head as far as demons are concerned but that’s neither here nor there…

Anyway, he was telling me about a bishop and a gaggle of priests from different countries that had some kind of function. At the end of the function, they decided to praise God together, and each started to speak praise in their own naitive laungage. This all went fine until one of the priests in back started snarling and growling. The bishop concluded that this particular priest was possessed he told the other priests to continue praising and he went to help the possessed priest…

This… doesn’t sit right with me. How can a priest who regularly conducts Mass, and is constantly handling and consuming the Eucharist on possibly a daily basis become possessed? If Jesus is really present in the Eucharist, then wouldn’t that harm a possessed person to recieve the Eucharist, or heal them of demonic possession?

Can a demonically possessed priest even actually /consecrate/ the bread and wine in the first place? That story sounds a little fishy to me. I don’t think the priest I talked to was lying, but it is possible that he got the story a little mixed up or more likely I misunderstood. So my question, is that even possible? The only thing I could come up with was maybe that particular priest was assigned to some other ministry and wasn’t required to conduct Mass regularly, in which case he might not have the added protection of regular communions. Any thoughts?

I don’t know about possesion but they can infuence them.
a case in point. out here the RC church had a priest try to kill his secretary with a wine bottle. he attacked her out of the blue, broke her hand and was beating her with a altar wine bottle. she said some prayers and it saved her life. she said it looked like he had a full change in charactor after the prayers, he stopped the attack and just staggered away. so they can affect a priest. I don’t think they can touch them during a mass thou, because they are surrounded by angels during mass.

 

[Jesness]

True.

Whose influence do you think priests and pastors are under when they sexually molest preteen and teen boys?

Or, a priest who celebrates Eucharist and then gets on the computer to watch child porn.

Influence is not posession. As I understand it, posession is when a demon exerts its will over the will of the person. When the person acts its not them acting but the demon. Any sin committed while a person is possessed they will not be held accountable for because sin requires full knowledge and full consent.

Influence is persuading an individual to do something right or wrong completely of their own free will. Assuming a person is influenced and not possessed they would be held accountable for their sin unless they repent. Yeah, you can make a really good argument and snow a person, but at the end of the day what we do is completely our own fault. If it wasn’t then we wouldn’t be required to repent when we sinned.

Yes, I know. There seemed to be an implicit misunderstanding in the OP that possession equates to mortal sin, thus my explanation that one who is possessed isn’t necessarily in mortal sin.

My issue is not with sin, I would have to wager that most people are in a state of venial sin at any given time, simply due to human nature. Priests included. But, that is neither here nor there for this discussion. Vinial sins are forgiven when you recieve the Eucharist, no? So that’s not my issue. Specifically, I am wondering how a demon possessed person, can EAT the Eucharist- Which the priest does in the mass. He takes both forms. That’s why I wondered if a demon could posess a priest who regularly conducts Mass and thereby regularly recieves the Eucharist. It has nothing to do with sin and everything to do with the real presence of God being consumed by a body acting under the posession of a demon. If a demon can’t stand to hear God praised how can it stand to recieve Him? If a person is possessed I would have to assume that means their heart? I kinda figure that’s where the will originates, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m not trying to cause trouble, I really do wonder how this is possible if I am to believe in the ‘real presence’ in the Eucharist.

 

[FCEGM]

My issue is not with sin, I would have to wager that most people are in a state of venial sin at any given time, simply due to human nature. Priests included. But, that is neither here nor there for this discussion. Vinial sins are forgiven when you recieve the Eucharist, no? So that’s not my issue. Specifically, I am wondering how a demon possessed person, can EAT the Eucharist- Which the priest does in the mass. He takes both forms. That’s why I wondered if a demon could posess a priest who regularly conducts Mass and thereby regularly recieves the Eucharist. It has nothing to do with sin and everything to do with the real presence of God being consumed by a body acting under the posession of a demon. If a demon can’t stand to hear God praised how can it stand to recieve Him? If a person is possessed I would have to assume that means their heart? I kinda figure that’s where the will originates, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m not trying to cause trouble, I really do wonder how this is possible if I am to believe in the ‘real presence’ in the Eucharist.

No, in the possession of any Christian, priest or not, unless that person is in mortal sin and has made a pact with the devil, the “heart” or the will has not chosen the possession; the soul has not been possessed (cannot be possessed) thus the person desires the Eucharist, and in the case of the priest he can still confect the Eucharist and receive it without any sin involved because his soul is not in mortal sin. It is not the demon that is receiving the Eucharist, but the soul. No doubt the demon would be in agony by its proximity to the Holy and would try to do all it could to keep the priest from celebrating Mass. In my earlier post I included a link to a post on the subject wherein I quoted from the account of a priest who was possessed. This is what he writes in regards to the Eucharist:

“The trembling which invades me when the Eucharist approaches me seems to come from the horror which its proximity arouses in me and from a respect filled with tenderness, althoough I cannot say which of these two sentiments predominate. If, at the instigation of one of these two souls [that of the demon and his own soul] I wish to make the sign of the cross over my mouth, the other soul forcefully restrains my arm and makes me take the finger between my teeth and bite it in a kind of fury. During these seizures my consolation is prayer, and I have recourse to it while my body rolls around on the floor and the ministers of the Church speak to me as to a devil and pronounce curses over me. . . during Mass I find myself constrained to stop suddenly; at table I cannot bring the food to my mouth.” Fr. Surin; quoted in The Theology of Christian Perfection, by Fr. Antonio Royo, O.P., and Fr. Jordan Aumann, O.P.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Possession rarely happens. I doubt it would just because of the chances of it are soooooo slim.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Possession rarely happens. I doubt it would just because of the chances of it are soooooo slim.

Any source to back that up?

Edit: Increase in Cases of Demonic Possession

 

[BluesPicker]

Fr. Surin was possessed. He made a mistake during an exorcism. And people that are possessed have taken Holy Communion. Possession is not a measure of what state of Grace a Soul is in. However in the case of some people it is sin that brought on this condition of the body.
I don't think it is worth arguing over though.

 

[MtnDwellar]

First, a question for Jesness: How are you lucky enough to chat with a priest about demons and temptations? I would love to chat with the priests of my parish, there are only two and over 4000 parishioners. Even with daily mass, I can only talk to our priests during confession, and then it is hurried because there’s a line. As far as I can tell, there is a group of older women who head the priest off at the door of the church and corner him at every opportunity.

Regarding the possessed priest: We know that there is more to an exorcism than feeding the possessed a bunch of Communion Hosts. So, clearly a demon can reside in a person’s body along side of Christ’s body. I am sure the demons are not happy about it.

It is rare for a priest to be completely possessed. As was pointed out, various types and degrees of possession have been identified. I believe that most instances of complete possession are short term. The long term possessions get all of the press. It is much more probable that the priest was possessed for a matter of minutes, rather than a case which required an exorcism.

Yes, I believe that a priest can be possessed, but it is rare, and most likely short lived.

 

[BluesPicker]

Fr. Surin was possessed for about twenty years. It is a famous case. He made the mistake of personally challenging the demons. I have to go look at the specifics again.
Basically there was a convent in France in the 17th century where several of the sisters became possessed. The good father went and tried to exorcise the demons. In fustration in challenged them head to head. This episode in history is called the "Devils of Loudun." This is very, sad story. I think it was made into a book and latter a movie. However, the Church regards the possessions as having been very real. As a matter of fact, one of the devils, Zabulon, holds a girl named Martha in Spain possessed. She is a victim soul. That is how I know about this case.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Any source to back that up?

Edit: Increase in Cases of Demonic Possession

How often do you hear of people being possessed?

Maybe in 3rd world countries, but here?

Very unlikely. they are rare.

 

[BluesPicker]

The young lady’s name is “Marta” and she is possessed by one of the demons that attacked the convent at Loudon named Zabulon. I had read thin in a news clipping detailing a bit of Fr. Fortea’s work. A victim soul is a tough concept to reconcile within oneself. Why does this happen? Is this a trick of the devil? To answer this question one has to begin at the foundation of their Faith. One foundational Truth is that this life is a preparation for the next.

All suffering can be said to be for the Glory of God. Firstly.  so that the individual would be raised to a greater sanctity in Heaven. Secondly, for the salvation of other souls, vocations, souls in purgatory,families,etc.. Suffering whether through possession, oppression, infestations, temptations conforms us to Christ, who said "take up your Cross daily, deny yourself, and follow me."
       
Jesus Christ did not perform miracles just to relieve our ills. He used these "signs" and wonders to prove to us His Divinity, that His Kingdom had arrived to believe in Him as our Saviour.  Although some people may be personally guilty of sin that  brought on possession, many are victims, innocent of blame. St. Paul says "I make up in my body what is lacking to the

suffering of Christ." And in another place, "I begged the Lord to take this angel of Satan from me, but the Lord said “My grace is sufficient for thee.”

    So some people suffer possession so that others may obtain the  Graces they need for Salvation.    This is very hard to understand.     But one must be first lead a very  holy life.   St. Padre Pio was a victim soul.    He didn't want the doctors to put him to sleep for a painful surgery.    Why?   Was his will so closely united to Christ was greater than the will of the devil.  Was the devil was his prisoner?   I don't know if anyone could understand this.  I believe St. Paul was  one of the first victim souls.

       Blessed Josefa Menedez is another victim soul.  People who suffer so that others may obtain the Graces of Salvation.   This is why we need to pray for one another.    To be forgiving to those who hate us and hurt us.   We can conquer the trails and tribulations of this life by following Christ.      Not everyone is called to be a victim soul but we all can pray for one another.  We should pray  for our Pope and the clergy everyday.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

How often do you hear of people being possessed?

Maybe in 3rd world countries, but here?

Very unlikely. they are rare.

Nobody can close their eyes to the fact that demonic possession is not only real but growing, and not just in “3rd world countries.” The devil wants you to believe possession is “rare.”

Just look at our culture. He’s alive and well, isn’t he?

God bless

 

[BluesPicker]

I found this blog on “victim souls”:

faithofthefathersmysticism.blogspot.com/2006/07/mystical-suffering-of-victim-soul.html

 

[BlueShadow123]

Nobody can close their eyes to the fact that demonic possession is not only real but growing, and not just in “3rd world countries.” The devil wants you to believe possession is “rare.”

Just look at our culture. He’s alive and well, isn’t he?

God bless

I never said demonic possession isn’t real. I said its rare. Now we may be talking about two different possessions here. There is evil in everything. If you look for evil, you will find it. But I’m talking like real flow-blown possession of people. Sorta like the girl in the movie the exorcist.
That is just rare. You don’t really see possessions like that anymore. They are just very rare.

 

[NJJMBVB]

How often do you hear of people being possessed?

Maybe in 3rd world countries, but here?

Very unlikely. they are rare.

They are probably more rare here because Satan doesn’t want people to know that he exists. I mean think about it, he already holds sway the minds of the media, which control the opinions of many in this country…destruction from within is much easier then destruction from without, especially if people don’t even recognize the termites in their walls…
In 3rd world countries, people are less hampered by material things, and more likely to believe in the spiritual. Thus Satan has to work harder, perchance, to corrupt…whereas here, no need for direct confrontation, mere behind-the-scenes corruption is good enough.

Perhaps there are three classes of people:
(1) Sinners who are truly striving to become more holy. Satan has to work harder to corrupt them.
(2) Sinners who don’t care, go with the flow, I’m a “good person”, just chill man, I’m spiritual not religious etc…The truth about Satan would probably frighten them out of their lukewarm bath, so he keeps them in the dark…no “supernatural occurences”, etc…
(3) Sinners who actively seek to serve Satan, or the darkness.

Perhaps Satan no longer needs to actively possess people as much not because people have become smarter since the “dark ages”, but because he has become more prevalent in the world, part of the backdrop that makes up our culture.

Something to think about…