Can a Discipline be a Heresy?

[JillH2008]

According to the canon of st basil to remarry a third time called for 5 yrs excommunication…. this would make this act ‘grave’ and a ‘mortal sin’. Later this was condemned as heresy, (montasism) So does this means something in a canon was a heresy?

I guess the best answer to this I can come up with is that ‘bound by Peter’ Disciplines can certainly be fallible to the point of being heresies but ‘bound by Peter’ Doctrine can not…. Which makes me still kind of really disturbed. Please help!!

Two tiny side questions

Also I was wondering if violating one of the 5 precepts of the church is said still to be grave? (I know the canon and CCC references for the gravity of Sun Mass and days of abstinence… but I don’t seem to see the 5 precepts “as a whole” listed as grave anymore in the CCC 2041- 2043) Apparently it was understood in the older days that these were grave as per the Baltimore Catechism. Has the gravity changed or been lifted? Any reference?

Finally if you violate any minor canon law is it said to be grave? Any reference? I understand the 5 precepts but wouldn’t think so with every line in the canon…

And its ok you don’t have to go further, I won’t object if they are grave, just curious

Thanks

 

[Trishie]

I can only remind you of two scriptures. Jesus din’t just say to the first pope St Peter, that He gave him power to make laws, He added that He could unmake them.*****

**I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven;
and ***whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven."
[Matthew 16:19] World English Bible

Jesus did say that he would gradually inspire the leader of the Church to the fullness of truth:
Jesus promised, “I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you now. But when the Spirit comes He will lead you to the complete truth…All He tells you will be taken from what is mine.” “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and then you will be my witnesses not only in Jerusalem but indeed…to the ends of the earth.” [John 16:8-9, 12-13, 15]

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

According to the canon of st basil to remarry a third time called for 5 yrs excommunication…. this would make this act ‘grave’ and a ‘mortal sin’. Later this was condemned as heresy, (montasism) So does this means something in a canon was a heresy?

I guess the best answer to this I can come up with is that ‘bound by Peter’ Disciplines can certainly be fallible to the point of being heresies but ‘bound by Peter’ Doctrine can not…. Which makes me still kind of really disturbed. Please help!!

Two tiny side questions

Also I was wondering if violating one of the 5 precepts of the church is said still to be grave? (I know the canon and CCC references for the gravity of Sun Mass and days of abstinence… but I don’t seem to see the 5 precepts “as a whole” listed as grave anymore in the CCC 2041- 2043) Apparently it was understood in the older days that these were grave as per the Baltimore Catechism. Has the gravity changed or been lifted? Any reference?

Finally if you violate any minor canon law is it said to be grave? Any reference? I understand the 5 precepts but wouldn’t think so with every line in the canon…

And its ok you don’t have to go further, I won’t object if they are grave, just curious

Thanks

If you stuck with Sola Scriptura, you wouldn’t have to worry as much me thinks.

 

[Lancer]

I am not familiar with the canon of St. Basil…(looked it up…and canons did exist…some say they were not of Saint Basil…others say yes they were his)…but by definition it is not the canon of The Church…Saint Peter (Pope+Magisterium)…thus, in my simple mind, there is no Church Heresy…maybe an over zealous Great Saint (if it was him) taught and set something up in his diocese that was in error and the Church (Pope+Magisterium) corrected him and the error to protect the Deposit of Faith and to protect the faithful.

Regarding the “sola scriptura” (S.S.) (name removed by moderator)ut comment as a possible solution to this type of problem…I would think that S.S. …would not solve it…but yield (literally) thousands of “canons of saint basils”…which is exactly what S.S. has done…thousands (45,000-50,000) of protestant interpretations on Divine Revelation (Word made Flesh – Jesus; the Bible; and sacred Tradition) as it applies to Faith and Morals. The simple solution by Our Lord Jesus Christ…found …one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church to be the guardian and protector of the Deposit of Faith…and to lead the faithful in Spirit and Truth regarding all matters of faith and morals…

"…But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)
Not sure about the gravity of all five precepts of the Church…or Canon law gravities…good questions!

Pax Christi

 

[Mark77]

If you stuck with Sola Scriptura, you wouldn’t have to worry as much me thinks.

If you “stuck with Sola Scriptura”, you would have to worry a lot because you wouldn’t be following Jesus.

“But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.” Jn 14:26.

Where in Holy Scripture does it tell us that Sola Scriptura is valid?

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[Corki]

According to the canon of st basil to remarry a third time called for 5 yrs excommunication…. this would make this act ‘grave’ and a ‘mortal sin’. Later this was condemned as heresy, (montasism) So does this means something in a canon was a heresy?

I guess the best answer to this I can come up with is that ‘bound by Peter’ Disciplines can certainly be fallible to the point of being heresies but ‘bound by Peter’ Doctrine can not…. Which makes me still kind of really disturbed. Please help!!

Two tiny side questions

Also I was wondering if violating one of the 5 precepts of the church is said still to be grave? (I know the canon and CCC references for the gravity of Sun Mass and days of abstinence… but I don’t seem to see the 5 precepts “as a whole” listed as grave anymore in the CCC 2041- 2043) Apparently it was understood in the older days that these were grave as per the Baltimore Catechism. Has the gravity changed or been lifted? Any reference?

Finally if you violate any minor canon law is it said to be grave? Any reference? I understand the 5 precepts but wouldn’t think so with every line in the canon…

And its ok you don’t have to go further, I won’t object if they are grave, just curious

Thanks

In answer to your title question, I don’t think a dicispline can be a heresy. I think it is possible that the rationale or theology behind implementing that discipline could be heretical.

As for breaking canon law, it would depend a lot IMHO on why the law was broken. For example, if you decided to disregard the Precept of the Church on fasting/abstinance because you thought they were silly, that would probably be grave since you would be denying the authority of the Church. If you ate meatloaf at your mother-in-laws house on a Friday in Lent because you were too chicken to confront her, probably much less grave.

I think violating the precept on marriage is always grave as is the one on Sundays and Holy Days.

 

[JillH2008]

I am not familiar with the canon of St. Basil…(looked it up…and canons did exist…some say they were not of Saint Basil…others say yes they were his)…but by definition it is not the canon of The Church…Saint Peter (Pope+Magisterium)…thus, in my simple mind, there is no Church Heresy…maybe an over zealous Great Saint (if it was him) taught and set something up in his diocese that was in error and the Church (Pope+Magisterium) corrected him and the error to protect the Deposit of Faith and to protect the faithful.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Can someone help me understand this a little further… If a Pope writes a canon and then excommunicates some one over disobedience to a law… what he says in his canon is not always binding? (Assuming he’s making laws that go against Doctrine, in this case saying that remarriage is sacramentally wrong and a gravely immoral act)

How do we know which canons are valid and don’t go against Doctrine? Is it proven that St Basil’s canons (which may or may not have been by him) and excommunication ‘orders’ (which there is evidence of) were for a Diocese and not the Church as a whole?