Can a gay leader, priest, pastor, shepard, etc., see heaven?

[Wesrock]

The Catholic Church is perfectly comfortable saying that homosexual acts are a sin that separate you from God, but certainly recently it’s been very clear that we can’t know the state of a person’s soul at death, and many Catholics are loath to say absolutely that this “person is going to hell.” We are warned against making such condemnations.

I think it’s the absoluteness of the question in the poll, in addition to what is meant by “gay” not being properly defined, that has led so many people to say yes. To say “no” is absolute. To say “yes” is by no means absolutely in favor, nor does it imply that any who meet that criteria have made it or will make it into heaven.

 

[guanophore]

For me the most troubling part of this is how one identifies oneself. We don’t see heterosexual people going through life identifying themselves by their sexual orientation. They don’t have to defend their “rights” and personhood through the lens of their sexual orientatin because they are in a majority.

Non-heterosexuals, on the other hand, seem to become pre-occupied sometimes by framing their world view with their sexual orientation. Surely this is contrary to framing one’s world view around Jesus, and one’s identity as a Christian.

In answer to the poll, I think that anyone who is willing to subjugate their sexual identity and activity to the Lord can see heaven, ,but I have concerns about those who, no matter how spiritually mature they may seem, continue to allow the issue of sexual orientation to matter more than their spiritual orientaiton.

At the end, only God knows the heart.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

True, although I don’t have any reason to think that he would do a better job of it than you have been.

Even though I said “I can see your point” w.r.t. your previous idea to interpret “gay leader” as a sinful activist, now I have to say that you’re just twisting things: just because someone is now an [unrepentant] “gay leader” does not mean that he/she cannot repent before death and go to heaven.

You should seriously look at where your heart is.

I don’t understand why you’re being so nasty about this, but suit yourself. Without sufficient clarity from the OP I think an unrepentant “gay leader” could still include those who remain unrepentant. Of course such a person who repents before death is no longer unrepentant. Lo and behold it seems that’s actually what the OP had in mind:
Even So:

I will reword said question, but I think most of you know what I mean. You just don’t want to agree with a Protestant.

If you are a leader in a church and teach gay is not a sin, without allegedly committing the act and leaving repentence out because there’s not forgiveness without repentence obviously, will GOD allow you into Heaven? Some one else want to word it better if that ain’t good enough? I would appreciate it.

Maybe a moderater can swipe the poll clean or suntin.

 

[CatholicSheila]

I will reword said question, but I think most of you know what I mean. You just don’t want to agree with a Protestant.

If you are a leader in a church and teach gay is not a sin, without allegedly committing the act and leaving repentence out because there’s not forgiveness without repentence obviously, will GOD allow you into Heaven? Some one else want to word it better if that ain’t good enough? I would appreciate it.

Maybe a moderater can swipe the poll clean or suntin.

I would still say yes.

Just as I would say that a protestant pastor can teach falsehoods and still attain heaven. I don’t see why a pastor that teaches that contraception, sex outside of marriage, remarriage (without annulment) etc. are okay is any different. In all those instances, as well as the one you provide of a same sex pastor, the pastor is teaching their flock that a sin is not a sin at all and in some cases actually a good thing.

Is there a greater likelihood that any of these pastors are unlikely to attain heaven? Yes. They are in a position of authority and teaching and I believe they will be held to a higher level than a layman by God. I’m not willing in any of those circumstances however to limit God. They may be in a place of invincible ignorance (only God knows this) or they may come to repentance later in life.

I’m sure as a protestant you believe that many Catholic Priests are teaching things as good and proper that you consider a sin. I was raised Pentecostal and I can imagine what your views on confession are. I imagine it is that confession is not required but that we should go direct to God without the aid of a Priest. The Pentecostals in my family would go so far as to say that teaching one must go to confession (extraordinary circumstances not withstanding) is a sin. Would you deem that all Catholic Priests are going to hell because they teach what you believe to be a sin as a requirement for salvation (again, extraordinary circumstances not withstanding)? If not, why is teaching one sin as okay worse than teaching another sin is ok?

 

[Peter_J]

I will reword said question,
…

I have no problem with you asking as many question as you want (well, unless it’s in the thousands or something). The problem is just if you say a gay leader cannot go to heaven.

 

[josh987654321]

Hi Even So

I will reword said question,

Okay.

but I think most of you know what I mean.

I believe I had an idea and in regards to homosexual acts, I believe they are quite wrong and that it’s very upsetting that some churches are trying to embrace same sex marriage and indirectly/directly the sexual acts of homosexuality, which goes completely against the teachings of Christ on marriage and sexuality.

You just don’t want to agree with a Protestant.

That’s especially not true for me, I often agree with protestants and I am eager to agree with them when I believe they are right on something, after all, I greatly enjoyed C.S. Lewis’ book ‘Mere Christianity’ I really enjoyed John Lennox’s books and many other protestant writers such as Timothy Keller, Ravi Zacharias etc.

If you are a leader in a church and teach gay is not a sin, without allegedly committing the act and leaving repentence out because there’s not forgiveness without repentence obviously, will GOD allow you into Heaven? Some one else want to word it better if that ain’t good enough? I would appreciate it.

I would say someone teaching ‘same sex marriage’ and saying that the sexual acts of homosexuality are in accord with Christ’s teachings on marriage and sexuality are seriously mistaken and in danger.

I would recommend they read the bible again, starting at the beginning.
The Book of Genesis 1:27:

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The Gospel of Matthew:

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? 6 So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

The Gospel of Mark:

6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one.’ So they are no longer two but one. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

I don’t believe Christ’s words contain any ambiguity here.

The only thing I wanted to emphasis was that simply someone being homosexual isn’t a sin, it’s the acting on it that I believe is the problem.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Even_So]

Being tempted( having attractions to someone ofthe same sex ) is not a sin , however committing sexual acts contrary to the Scriptures ( same sex marriage, same sex activity) is wrong , but there is a difference .

Hope that helps , Keep the faith Even So , Starwars

Certainly can agree. Thank you and back at ya!

 

[Even_So]

For me the most troubling part of this is how one identifies oneself. We don’t see heterosexual people going through life identifying themselves by their sexual orientation. They don’t have to defend their “rights” and personhood through the lens of their sexual orientatin because they are in a majority.

Non-heterosexuals, on the other hand, seem to become pre-occupied sometimes by framing their world view with their sexual orientation. Surely this is contrary to framing one’s world view around Jesus, and one’s identity as a Christian.

In answer to the poll, I think that anyone who is willing to subjugate their sexual identity and activity to the Lord can see heaven, ,but I have concerns about those who, no matter how spiritually mature they may seem, continue to allow the issue of sexual orientation to matter more than their spiritual orientaiton.

At the end, only God knows the heart.

Yes. Thank u and everyone else for your answers. BTW, by the looks of your avatar thingy, I don’t think I would like to tango with u. Er, tangle. Either. Whatever .

 

[Even_So]

I would still say yes.

Just as I would say that a protestant pastor can teach falsehoods and still attain heaven. I don’t see why a pastor that teaches that contraception, sex outside of marriage, remarriage (without annulment) etc. are okay is any different. In all those instances, as well as the one you provide of a same sex pastor, the pastor is teaching their flock that a sin is not a sin at all and in some cases actually a good thing.

Is there a greater likelihood that any of these pastors are unlikely to attain heaven? Yes. They are in a position of authority and teaching and I believe they will be held to a higher level than a layman by God. I’m not willing in any of those circumstances however to limit God. They may be in a place of invincible ignorance (only God knows this) or they may come to repentance later in life.

I’m sure as a protestant you believe that many Catholic Priests are teaching things as good and proper that you consider a sin. I was raised Pentecostal and I can imagine what your views on confession are. I imagine it is that confession is not required but that we should go direct to God without the aid of a Priest. The Pentecostals in my family would go so far as to say that teaching one must go to confession (extraordinary circumstances not withstanding) is a sin. Would you deem that all Catholic Priests are going to hell because they teach what you believe to be a sin as a requirement for salvation (again, extraordinary circumstances not withstanding)? If not, why is teaching one sin as okay worse than teaching another sin is ok?

Should this be a new thread? Pentecost to Catholic is somewhat uncommon. Do I think priests are going to hell for confession? No.

 

[Even_So]

I have no problem with you asking as many question as you want (well, unless it’s in the thousands or something). The problem is just if you say a gay leader cannot go to heaven.

I hear ya,. I shudda just asked is gay okay but that’s been done, right? We get in by grace. But we must repent as some have stated- 1 John 1:9. Is it unforgivable? Course not. However , if u die w/o repentence, fuggeddaboddit. I do not believe GOD’S grace would cover what He already said is an abomination.

 

[Kielbasi]

Why not? If they turn away from their sins and confess their guilt to Almighty God, sodomy isn’t an unpardonable sin.

 

[CatholicSheila]

Should this be a new thread? Pentecost to Catholic is somewhat uncommon. Do I think priests are going to hell for confession? No.

I don’t think it should be a new thread. I’m trying to work out where your line is on pastors teaching things that are ‘incorrect’ in your thinking. Which false doctrines you believe will send a pastor to hell and which won’t. And why there is a difference in treatment.

Do you believe that the Church is teaching true when she teaches that we must confess our sins through a Priest to be forgiven?

If not, how is teaching this any different to a pastor teaching that same sex marriage is a sin? In both cases, the pastor is teaching something seen as false and leading people astray.