Can a gay man be a priest if he remains celibate?

[Mannyfit75]

Well we are not here to discuss whether or not it is a pyschological disorder but if you think it is maybe we should lock them all up in a mental hospital until they say “Hey, I am heterosexual”. Good luck.

I didn’t suggest that. You did. Homosexuality is a disorder just as masturbation is. The reasons for taking those two acts out of the disorder list is based on false statistical data base.

I believe homosexual acts is instrinsically evil just as the Catechism states.

As much as I like to this discuss further. I rather not, and wish to continue to discuss the issue why gay priest shouldn’t be allowed. Current Vatican Policy states they can’t.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Not all those with the attraction are practicing therefore you cannot call them homosexuals. I recommend a little more charity instead of ignorance.

Well, none of my post here are uncharitable. I wrote down what I know to be the truth.

 

[goofyjim]

Well, none of my post here are uncharitable. I wrote down what I know to be the truth.

Well then let me give the truth. There are many who have same sex attractions and never act on them. They do not sit and decide who to lust after every moment of the day. They try to live quiet lives and simply do not feel the call to marriage. They are told they can’t be priests and they are told they can’t share an apartment with someone of the same gender because this would be the “near occasion of sin”. Doesn’t leave them many options but the expensive ones of renting by themselves and this loneliness that they are forced into by society is what drives them to consider suicide. God never meant for any of them to be alone in life and their struggles. He did not intend the lifestyle but he does require a little more understanding on our part, not the smae old “Adam and Steve” jokes.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I pretty much think that the Church would call any persistent attraction to a member of the same sex as a “deep-rooted tendency” (from the document) and that that persistent attraction would disqualify a man from the priesthood (though not heaven, unless he gives in to the attraction).

And it doesn’t matter that the American Psychiatric Association/ American Medical Association no longer regards homosexuality as a disorder, the Church still regards it as such (and uses that precise term: “disordered”). That’s not homophobic, that’s simply fact.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I pretty much think that the Church would call any persistent attraction to a member of the same sex as a “deep-rooted tendency” (from the document) and that that persistent attraction would disqualify a man from the priesthood (though not heaven, unless he gives in to the attraction).

And it doesn’t matter that the American Psychiatric Association/ American Medical Association no longer regards homosexuality as a disorder, the Church still regards it as such (and uses that precise term: “disordered”). That’s not homophobic, that’s simply fact.

Exactly.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Well then let me give the truth. There are many who have same sex attractions and never act on them. They do not sit and decide who to lust after every moment of the day. They try to live quiet lives and simply do not feel the call to marriage. They are told they can’t be priests and they are told they can’t share an apartment with someone of the same gender because this would be the “near occasion of sin”. Doesn’t leave them many options but the expensive ones of renting by themselves and this loneliness that they are forced into by society is what drives them to consider suicide. God never meant for any of them to be alone in life and their struggles. He did not intend the lifestyle but he does require a little more understanding on our part, not the smae old “Adam and Steve” jokes.

Kirk answer what needed to be answered.

We can only pray for those individual with SSA for their conversion and ask that they will be “straighten out” and become heterosexual. Just as God intended everyone else to be.

 

[goofyjim]

Kirk answer what needed to be answered.

We can only pray for those individual with SSA for their conversion and ask that they will be “straighten out” and become heterosexual. Just as God intended everyone else to be.

Well I am sorry you feel that way. There is nothing for those with SSA to be converted from. They are not by their very nature sinning. One only needs to convert from sin. You missed the whole truth as I explained it. Goodbye.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Kirk answer what needed to be answered.

We can only pray for those individual with SSA for their conversion and ask that they will be “straighten out” and become heterosexual. Just as God intended everyone else to be.

Wait a sec, Manny, that isn’t what the Church says either!

From the CCC:

[2357](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’) Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
[2359](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

The Church recognizes that the disorder is a disorder, but the ACT is what is sinful. She distinguishes between the two.
A person can be fully converted and yet still have to battle SSA. The Church offers no comment on the origin of homosexuality, so we cannot say that people choose to be homosexual (though we do say that they can choose to act or not act on those temptations). Some may well be born like that (and that would be God’s permissive will as opposed to His active will, as we know He doesn’t positively will disorder or sin or evil), they may grow like that as a result of bad environment (abuse, no positive males with whom to interact, etc., etc.), the Church doesn’t know. The Church also does not require repairative therapy, which works for some and doesn’t for others. She requires of them chastity and the taking up of their cross, uniting it to the Cross of Christ.

I knew a devout man who suffered with SSA. He said that he knew there was something different about him even when he was a child, before he ever had a word to put to it. He didn’t choose it, he HATED it. He begged God to let him be straight, but he never was “straightend out.” He just decided to live in chastity.

 

[goofyjim]

Wait a sec, Manny, that isn’t what the Church says either!

From the CCC:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

The Church recognizes that the disorder is a disorder, but the ACT is what is sinful. She distinguishes between the two.
A person can be fully converted and yet still have to battle SSA. The Church offers no comment on the origin of homosexuality, so we cannot say that people choose to be homosexual (though we do say that they can choose to act or not act on those temptations). Some may well be born like that (and that would be God’s permissive will as opposed to His active will, as we know He doesn’t positively will disorder or sin or evil), they may grow like that as a result of bad environment (abuse, no positive males with whom to interact, etc., etc.), the Church doesn’t know. The Church also does not require repairative therapy, which works for some and doesn’t for others. She requires of them chastity and the taking up of their cross, uniting it to the Cross of Christ.

I knew a devout man who suffered with SSA. He said that he knew there was something different about him even when he was a child, before he ever had a word to put to it. He didn’t choose it, he HATED it. He begged God to let him be straight, but he never was “straightend out.” He just decided to live in chastity.

Thank you.

 

[goofyjim]

The Pope may state it, but it isn’t being followed, take a look at our semiaries, they look like a YMCA reunion tour or Streisand tickets just went on sale… Of my past three parishes all but two priests were homosexual, or at least acted incredibly effeminate that I thought them to be homosexual.

Homosexual men are too pschologically disordered to handle celibacy or the priesthood.

This one doesn’t even deserve a response.

 

[lukewarm]

This is hemorrhaging ignorance! Have you ever spoken to a gay man? Gotten to know one? Had a conversation about what his experience was coming to terms with his own sexual orientation? Learned how he understands himself as a homosexual and a faithful Catholic?

Thank goodness the priests in our cviliized parish ignore this claptrap, or we’d have only one priest and no choir director!

I’ll trust the Bible on the matter not a moral relativist… thanks anyway though.

 

[lukewarm]

Very uncharitable. Noone chooses same sex attraction.

Yes they do…You think a child molester chooses child attraction? He does in the same way a homosexual does, either way it’s a deviant sexual perversion a person actively chooses. Again I’ll refer to the Bible on the matter over a couple moral relativists.

 

[lukewarm]

And I can define “up” as “down” if I choose to.

Latin caelibatus, from caelib-, caelebs unmarried.

And I can show common usage in Enlish you know the language we speak as celibacy refering to "abstention from sexual relations. "

Like I said either usage is correct stop being a nitpicking pain…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Yes they do…You think a child molester chooses child attraction? He does in the same way a homosexual does, either way it’s a deviant sexual perversion a person actively chooses. Again I’ll refer to the Bible on the matter over a couple moral relativists.

I can’t comment on on child molesters, but the Church does not say that homosexuality is chosen…and the Bible means what the Church says it means. Further, your accusation of moral relitivism is absurd. No one is remotely suggesting that homosexual acts are “relatively” ok, ie “in this circumstance or this situation.” They’re not. Regardless of the orientation, the act is intrinsically evil. A moral relitivist would not agree with that.

 

[drpmjhess]

We can only pray for those individual with SSA for their conversion and ask that they will be “straighten out” and become heterosexual. Just as God intended everyone else to be.

You must inhabit a fairy-tale world, where black is always black and white is always white. Homosexuality is statistically common across the eukaryote kingdom – mammal, bird, reptile, etc. Since that is the case, where is the evidence that God intended everyone or everything to be heterosexual? It is pretty arrogant of you to claim what God has willed or not willed, particularly when homosexuality is not a matter of choice (I never chose to be heterosexual at puberty, and my gay friends had an identical experience of orientation).

And again, my question remains, why are you so interested in this topic? Why are you so concerned about what goes on in other people’s bedrooms? What should we read about you between the lines here? Are you hating something you deny in yourself? Why not focus on the constructive contributions gay people have made and continue to make to the life of the church, their communities and the world?
Prayerfully,
Petrus

 

[Marian_Carroll]

GENERAL NOTICE

As this is the Liturgy & Sacraments Forum the question in this thread is:

Can a gay man be a priest if he remains celibate?

If you have something to contribute to that commentary feel free to do so. Please stay however within the parameters of the ordination question.

If the thread continues to be hijacked by those wishing to discuss causes, problems, morality, etc., it will close. Such discussion would be best served by joining a thread already in progress or initiating one in the appropriate forum.

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[redbird444]

Can a gay man be a priest if he remains celibate?

I would say yes because what most people who are not homosexuals do not realize is:

Not all homosexuals are the same. Just having SSA or being gay does not mean you are constantly chasing sex or thinking about it. Although many do!

We should all know firsthand that when we are centered on God and matters of spirituality, our carnal desires are lessened… whether you are gay, straight, or whatever. And thanks to the sex scandals and the “research”, many are led to believe that gay priests are ALL just sex crazed fiends ready to pounce on their alter boys.

I think the oiriginator’s question hides an assumption that a gay man is incapable of controlling his desires. Truth is, there are probably thousands of gay men who are priests, and they are not driven to act out with “boys” or “teens”.
Most gay men I know, roll their eyes at the mere thought of underage males, because they simply do not find them attractive. Sorry to be so graphic on my post. But it needs to be said. I was chaste for three years before I even considered joining the catholic church. Being chaste is not difficult for some people.

I have met thousands of gay men, as I once led an active gay life, and there are many gay men who do not fit the stereotype. Many gay men do not go to gay bars, bathhouses, etc. I know I never visted a bathhouse and I never liked gay bars. And I am not effete. In fact, I worked as a prison guard and not one person has ever guessed that I was gay.

Some people have high sex drives and some don’t. Its a continuum. Some are just asexual. Its sad so many comments on this forum topic from men who are not gay seem to be uninformed. And even if they don’t mean to be, some comments come across as ignorant and hateful.

I realize when the church says “disordered”, it leaves the door open to contempt from ~some~ people, but those same people are just unhappy and, truth be told, many haters are themselves hiding something, maybe even their own “disorder” if you know what I mean.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

The thread is now closed.