Can a God Suffer Even He İncarnate in a Body?

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mhmtas

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Firstly forswearing for sins is enough to be forgiven by God. And God writes 1 goodness as 10 at least but writes 1 evil as 1. And also God is so vast merciful forgive sins without a reason.

İf Jesus has a divine nature and he is Son of God he should not get suffer in anyway! İndeed there is no need for suc thing. İf Jesus suffer than he is not a God and if he does not than is there any mean to say that God sacrified his “Divine God Son” to forgive sinfuls?
 
mhmtas said:
Firstly forswearing for sins is enough to be forgiven by God. And God writes 1 goodness as 10 at least but writes 1 evil as 1. And also God is so vast merciful forgive sins without a reason.

İf Jesus has a divine nature and he is Son of God he should not get suffer in anyway! İndeed there is no need for suc thing. İf Jesus suffer than he is not a God and if he does not than is there any mean to say that God sacrified his “Divine God Son” to forgive sinfuls?
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Suffering gods were pretty common in ancient Middle Eastern religions - just thought I’d point that out.
 
God can do whatever He wants. In Jesus God reveals Himself to be different in some significant ways from the God of the Old Testament. Other truths were simply made known more clearly. By Jesus’ life, teachings, miracles, suffering, death, and resurrection God proves to man, in a direct and intimate way, what He should never need to prove: His existence, His unfailing trustworthiness, His power, His mercy, His gentleness and humility (truly amazing), most importantly His fathomless, unconditional love for man. By being willing to live and suffer among His own creation He 1) sanctifies human life; He confirms its basic goodness and dignity while opposing the reasons for human shame that causes much of the anger and hatred in this world, and 2) He proves that He’s always loved man and always had his best interests at heart; man is the source of enmity between himself and God. And the resurrection proves God’s intent regarding man’s eternal status.

Jesus came to reconcile man with God. With the New Covenant Jesus shows that man must be in relationship with Him, His Spirit dwelling within, in order for man to be who he was created to be; this is the proper order of things, this is the true source of man’s justice.

Maybe you don’t need this awesome physical demonstration of God’s true nature and will for man, but many of us do, and in it we can come to recognize a truly amazing Being- even much more worthy of our love and obedience than we understood before.
 
  1. Christ is both truly God and truly Man. He can suffer, in fact did suffer, in His human nature (which obviously can suffer - all humans do), not His divine nature (which can not suffer). But because Christ is one person - the Second Person of the Divine Trinity, and persons suffer not natures - God suffered.
  2. Would you say Allah can not suffer, i.e. lacks the power to suffer?
 
mhmtas said:
Firstly forswearing for sins is enough to be forgiven by God. And God writes 1 goodness as 10 at least but writes 1 evil as 1. And also God is so vast merciful forgive sins without a reason.

İf Jesus has a divine nature and he is Son of God he should not get suffer in anyway! İndeed there is no need for suc thing. İf Jesus suffer than he is not a God and if he does not than is there any mean to say that God sacrified his “Divine God Son” to forgive sinfuls?
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Jesus Christ is also fully man. As man He suffers.
 
It is important to know that the divinity of Christ did not suffer as per-I believe- the council of Ephesus
 
^
“On this account we say that he suffered and rose again; not as if God the Word suffered in his own nature stripes, or the piercing of the nails, or any other wounds, for the Divine nature is incapable of suffering, inasmuch as it is incorporeal, but since that which had become his own body suffered in this way, he is also said to suffer for us; for he who is in himself incapable of suffering was in a suffering body. In the same manner also we conceive respecting his dying; for the Word of God is by nature immortal and incorruptible, and life and life-giving; since, however, his own body did, as Paul says, by the grace of God taste death for every man, he himself is said to have suffered death for us, not as if he had any experience of death in his own nature (for it would be madness to say or think this), but because, as I have just said, his flesh tasted death.”
Second Letter of Cyril to Nestorius
 
Our Lord had to suffer and die for the transgressions and sins of man so he could open the gates of heaven.We are reconciled to him through his humanity and by his divine nature we are freed from our iniquities. As a previous thread stated he suffered primarily through taking upon himself the sins of man and thereby separating himself from his Father during them fateful hours.This is something that we could never truly comprehend. No man could take this upon himself.
 
ivdaeorum said:
Our Lord had to suffer and die for the transgressions and sins of man so he could open the gates of heaven.We are reconciled to him through his humanity and by his divine nature we are freed from our iniquities. As a previous thread stated he suffered primarily through taking upon himself the sins of man and thereby separating himself from his Father during them fateful hours.This is something that we could never truly comprehend. No man could take this upon himself.
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Christ’s suffering is also Him uniting fully with our human nature, so that we as humans may share in His divinity. As Scripture says, Christ shared everything with us except sin. That is why He suffered and died.
 
Jesus posed three questions to unbelievers that answers this question;

If Islam has the wisdom of Allah from Muhammad, and Muhammad is believed to be the last and greatest prophet of Allah. Then Islam should possess the wisdom to be able to answer Jesus question as a prophet of Allah.
  1. Mark 11:29-33 Jesus said to them, "I shall ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things. Was John’s baptism of heavenly or of human origin"?
  2. Matthew 22:41-45…Jesus questioned the Pharisees, saying; "What is your opinion about the Messiah? Whose son is he? They replied “David’s”. He said to them. “How then does **David, inspired by the spirit, call him Lord”, saying; "The Lord said to my lord, Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet? If David calls him “lord,” how can he be his son?
    **
  3. John 10:33-36 The Jews answered Him; "We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You a man, are making yourself God."Jesus answered them. "Is it not written in your law, “I SAID”, “You are gods”? If it calls them gods to whom the Word of God came, and** scripture cannot be set aside, can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, “I am the Son of God”?**
Without setting scripture aside, does Islam has the wisdom to answer Jesus the prophet’s questions? The answer has to complete and not contradict any of sacred scripture, including the law and prophecies.

Peace be with you
 
mhmtas said:
Firstly forswearing for sins is enough to be forgiven by God. And God writes 1 goodness as 10 at least but writes 1 evil as 1. And also God is so vast merciful forgive sins without a reason.

İf Jesus has a divine nature and he is Son of God he should not get suffer in anyway! İndeed there is no need for suc thing. İf Jesus suffer than he is not a God and if he does not than is there any mean to say that God sacrified his “Divine God Son” to forgive sinfuls?
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You’re forgetting the fact that Jesus is not only divine, he is also fully human. And as such, he can feel what a human feels.

Additionally, if God created the Earth, humanity, and all our feelings and emotions, why wouldn’t he be able to suffer as humans suffer, if he becomes incarnate?
 
FabiusMaximus said:
You’re forgetting the fact that Jesus is not only divine, he is also fully human. And as such, he can feel what a human feels.

Additionally, if God created the Earth, humanity, and all our feelings and emotions, why wouldn’t he be able to suffer as humans suffer, if he becomes incarnate?
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And this was the crux of a Seven Ecumenical Councils. They tried to figure out to what degree Jesus was either divine or human. The final answer was fully divine and fully human. He is equal in divinity to the Father and the Holy Spirit, he is fully human with all human faculties as each and every one of us.
 
ConstantineTG said:
And this was the crux of a Seven Ecumenical Councils. They tried to figure out to what degree Jesus was either divine or human. The final answer was fully divine and fully human. He is equal in divinity to the Father and the Holy Spirit, he is fully human with all human faculties as each and every one of us.
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Amen, and this is the truth of the Holy Christian faith.
 
ConstantineTG said:
And this was the crux of a Seven Ecumenical Councils. They tried to figure out to what degree Jesus was either divine or human. The final answer was fully divine and fully human. He is equal in divinity to the Father and the Holy Spirit, he is fully human with all human faculties as each and every one of us.
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This comes under the Person of Christ.

Person of Christ

Lutherans call this the Communications of the Attributes in the Person Of Christ. Christ had two natures, his Divine Nature ( Person of the Eternal Logos Son of God and Second Person of the Holy Trinity. ) and His Human Nature ( Assumed from the Blessed Virgin Mary ). All this becomes the The Person Union of Christ - True God and True Man.
Each nature has its own essential characteristics, they are shared in the same Person. The Son of God is divine because He is eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-immortal.
The Divine Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Eternal, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Immortal, Omniscient.
His Human Attributes ( Characteristics ) are: Was born, grew, lived, and aged. Lived in Judea. became tired, had to eat and sleep. Mortal, able to suffer and die, learned and grew in knowledge.
The Divine Attributes are essential to Christ’s Divine Nature and His Human Attributes are essential to His Human Nature for Christ to be God/man.
Divine Characteristics are transferred to the human nature are by virtue of the Personal Union. We can say Jesus the Man is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc., because He is the God-Man. So He could know people’s thoughts, perform miracles, etc., but the human characteristics are not transferred to the divine nature.
All that Jesus is - God and Man - works together for our salvation.
The two natures are truly and inseparably joined in the Person Union without being mingled, changed: unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably. Neither the flesh outside the Word nor the Word outside the flesh.
The attributes of the human nature and the attributes of the divine nature are shared in the same person but not essential to both natures. Each nature has its own essential attributes. ( Genus Idomaticum ),
The Divine attributes are transferred to the human nature by virtue of the Personal Union. But they never become an essential attribute of the human nature. The communication is strictly one way. ( Genus Majestaticum )
The full set of attributes work for our salvation. The redemption of mankind is accomplished by the theanthropic ( God-Man ) person of Jesus Christ. ( Genus Apotelesmaticum )
 
Sorry OP but you are going to have to write your post again, in English if possible.
 
PietroPaolo said:
  1. Would you say Allah can not suffer, i.e. lacks the power to suffer?
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there is no contrariety in attributes of God, otherwise he would not be God. Examples: God kill and take souls by death Angel. Can God take his himself soul kill himself?

God is almighty. Can God make himself faint? But impotence is so far from God. i.e.
 
PietroPaolo said:
  1. Christ is both truly God and truly Man. He can suffer, in fact did suffer, in His human nature (which obviously can suffer - all humans do), not His divine nature (which can not suffer). But because Christ is one person - the Second Person of the Divine Trinity, and persons suffer not natures - God suffered.
İs divine nature unaware, unconnected, unengaged with human nature. You first make God three than make Son two. Than how many are Father(God) and Holy Spirit in personality? And how many God do we have?
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fhansen said:
God can do whatever He wants.

Yes God can do what he wants but there are some things that God never does.
God never behave cruely than is God not almighty? God is not matterial with his all attributes. So is God lack because he is not matter? A thing could be both divine and lack matter at the same time?
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mhmtas said:
God never behave cruely than is God not almighty?
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What is that called !!!🤷
(Quran 4:56):
"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."
mhmtas said:
God is not matterial with his all attributes.
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GOD can take whatever shape He wants, whether that an earthy material (like a fire when he talked to Moses) or a spiritual form (unseen).
 
Sam_777 said:
What is that called !!!🤷
(Quran 4:56):
"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

Punishment of Hell is because of disbelief and sins.

GOD can take whatever shape He wants, whether that an earthy material (like a fire when he talked to Moses) or a spiritual form (unseen).
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God creates fire, lights, soul i.e. God never but never get form. So you are so unaware that God did not form like fire and seen to Moses. God act and reflect on mountain like reflect on a mirror. Reflection of you on mirror is getting different form?
 
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