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Dakota_Roberts
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Algebraic logic doesn’t work well in psychology especially booleans which don’t make a pence of sense in that field.
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warpspeedpetey
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Logic applies to all reasoning by definition. That includes psychology.
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Eugenius
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Not to detract from the OP, but I’m really glad that you stated this. I agree with you and it is something I often think about during the “gay marriage” discussions. The focus on marriage and it’s supposed “civil rights” at the expense of vocation and service to God do indeed strike me as idolatrous much of the time.
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Eugenius
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In response to the OP, I think a lot depends on how you define “homosexual.” Also, are you asking about all homosexuals or just some? I’m influenced by the Kinsey report (the basic concept, not necessarily the supporting details) in thinking that a certain percentage of the population is strongly heterosexual, a certain percentage strongly homosexual and a large percentage on a scale somewhere in between. Those who are able to change probably are closer to the heterosexual side to begin with, have a desire to change and can also make a clean break with their previous social groups.
I also think some people are labeled homosexual and believe it, when in fact they are not. Of course it would be easier for these people to “change” than someone who had more deeply seated, long term tendencies. There are the typical stories about being recruited or seduced, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the American obsession with masculine stereotypes didn’t lead some men to believe they are homosexual when in fact they just desired masculine bonding and friendship. They don’t know how to interpret these feelings and assume they are homosexual. I’m reminded of time I spent in Europe during college. Physical space between people was different. It wasn’t unusual to see men hanging out at the pub drinking a draft beer with their arms around each others shoulders. In some cultures men walk arm in arm or even hold hands and it is nothing more than friendship. As a grown man Abraham Lincoln supposedly shared a bed with his friend, Joshua Speed, for a number of years while he was a circuit attorney, but it was nothing but friendship. Yet if men in the modern United States did any of this they would be labeled, harassed, called names or even beaten in the street for being homosexual. Men in this situation might believe they are “homosexual” when in fact they are not.
I also think some people are labeled homosexual and believe it, when in fact they are not. Of course it would be easier for these people to “change” than someone who had more deeply seated, long term tendencies. There are the typical stories about being recruited or seduced, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the American obsession with masculine stereotypes didn’t lead some men to believe they are homosexual when in fact they just desired masculine bonding and friendship. They don’t know how to interpret these feelings and assume they are homosexual. I’m reminded of time I spent in Europe during college. Physical space between people was different. It wasn’t unusual to see men hanging out at the pub drinking a draft beer with their arms around each others shoulders. In some cultures men walk arm in arm or even hold hands and it is nothing more than friendship. As a grown man Abraham Lincoln supposedly shared a bed with his friend, Joshua Speed, for a number of years while he was a circuit attorney, but it was nothing but friendship. Yet if men in the modern United States did any of this they would be labeled, harassed, called names or even beaten in the street for being homosexual. Men in this situation might believe they are “homosexual” when in fact they are not.
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Hadrianus
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Some good points. Anyone who has lived in Europe will see very different patterns of behavior. American males do appear to be obsessed with homosexuality in a way that is not so common in Europe. I know two men who both were at different times physically attacked for appearing “gay”. They are both completely heterosexual, but just don’t fit the American stereotype of rugged male.
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Dakota_Roberts
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The law of noncontradiction has not actually been proved. Have you heard of Dialetheism where a statement can be both true and false simultaneously or true and false at different times? In the first case is a doorway from a hall to a room part of the room or part of the hallway? It can indeed be both. In the second case one could say all buildings will be destroyed by an earthquake the proposition can be both true and false at different times, for example if a 4.3 earthquake hits Chile there will be little to no destroyed buildings whereas if an 9.0 hits close to Washington D.C. the place will be leveled along with significant swaths of the eastern seaboard
You mean the American masculinity of “I am a man hear me roar beats on hairy chest like a gorilla” isn’t universally applicable?
What kind of swishy men live in Europe 
(that was sarcasm BTW)
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warpspeedpetey
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All knowledge is inductive at some point in the logical buildup, hence no knowledge outside Dubito is proven… Throw logic out and any statement could be considered true. For instance black=white, 1=0, would all be true statements without the laws of logic. The para consistent logics do not allow actual contradictions either. Nor are you making a para consistent argument, you are not claiming that homosexuality and friendship are the same thing in different frames of reference, but that they are the same thing in the same frame of reference.
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Dakota_Roberts
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No, your “logic” is that if color is not black then it is white which while it does successfully separate black from all other colors it misses the fact that some greys are more black than white and #808080 is both and neither, even more so it misses that there are non-greyscale colors like red green and blue.
I am saying there can be overlap between them.
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warpspeedpetey
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That is the problem. You are claiming that friendship is in some extreme degree of intensity the same thing as homosexuality. You are suggesting the infamous statement of “2+2=5, for very large values of 2”. When stated in a formal language such contradictions become obvious. Logical contradictions are always necessarily false. Thereby proving that your argument is false.
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Dakota_Roberts
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That is not what I am saying.
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warpspeedpetey
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warpspeedpetey
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Then please make an official statement of your argument for examination.
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speakttruth
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The article was by Father James Lloyd. One of my Encourage members sent it out and I thought it would be nice to put it on here. Fr. Harvey was asked to run a ministry from Cardinal Cooke that helped the SSA person and knew their was a need for it. He worked tirelessly for forty years trying to get Courage established in all the Church’s, that would help men and women who have SSA live a chaste life. As you can see from the article he was following the church rules, but because there are so many homosexuals frankly that are hiding out as priests, cardinals and bishops, he was persecuted from many because they didn’t want it in their church or diocese because they had he problem themselves or wanted to be PC for their own reasons. His ministry was the only one approved by the Pontificant.
Doesn’t that say something?
He was a loving father totally devoted to his calling and never was mean, so humble, and always charitable even when people were upset with him. He spent countless hours, living simply to help anyone who was in need of counseling. He was the one who formed Courage and has helped thousands of men and women come into their faith. He was loved by all of us in Courage and Encourage. Because of his commitment they have started the process to have him beatified, I don’t know if he will become a Saint, but if you knew him or anything about him you would understand. With so much opposition in this culture for the last fifty years he had never stopped doing what his calling was and their is another man, Fr. Check who took his place, because Fr. Harvey wanted him to and he accepted. He is also such a beautiful soul. He is so holy too and has a very heavy burden as well. I hope I answered your questions. Go on couragerc.net if you want to know more about him and testomies of some Courage people that have worked with him and some of his talks.
God bless
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warpspeedpetey
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You have yet to post an official statement of your argument for examination. Do you intend to do so?
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Rkdajr
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Why are we pushing for homosexuals to change their orientation? That’s what the poll is implying anyway. Aren’t we asking the wrong question? We should be encouraging homosexual people to live the life they are called to of celibacy instead of ‘praying the gay away.’ I admit I didn’t read this whole thread but even if there have been successful stories of this and even if I do believe that sexuality can be fluid, I don’t think they were 100% gay in the first place and it’s offensive and damaging to advocate changing orientations. I know with God all things are possible but it just seems to me that if He were to grant a homosexual person either to give them strength to live a chaste life or make them straight, He would do the first one.
mathematoons
New member
I can’t believe this thread is still going. How about this: Some can, some can’t.
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John_Parisi
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Dear Mathematoons,
You write that you can’t believe that this has gone on so long, “Can a Homosexual become a Heterosexual?” I can believe and I’ll tell you why. Homosexuality has been condemend by the Good Lord Himself. The practice of homosexuality and lesbian is because it is pure lust. And lust is one of the seven captial sins. That forbidden practice of those who participate need our prayers. We must love them and pray for them that the Good Lord will touch their hearts and give them the gift of repentence. We all need the gift of repentence. Jesus died on the cross so that everyone of us will be saved and enjoy eternal life.
john
You write that you can’t believe that this has gone on so long, “Can a Homosexual become a Heterosexual?” I can believe and I’ll tell you why. Homosexuality has been condemend by the Good Lord Himself. The practice of homosexuality and lesbian is because it is pure lust. And lust is one of the seven captial sins. That forbidden practice of those who participate need our prayers. We must love them and pray for them that the Good Lord will touch their hearts and give them the gift of repentence. We all need the gift of repentence. Jesus died on the cross so that everyone of us will be saved and enjoy eternal life.
john
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Eugenius
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This is just a casual observation, but it seems that CAF is more obsessed with lust (just one of the seven, as you pointed out) than it is with the other capital sins. It is hard to believe people would respond for the same duration and with the same intensity to questions about sloth or gluttony.
mathematoons
New member
The reason I can’t believe how long this has gone on is because the answer is simple. Sodomy is a sin. People can quit that sin because they have free will. Whether they can overcome same-sex attraction depends on the individual. Some can, and some can’t.
As for the other poster’s point, the problem is that lust is a major reason for heresy and apostasy today. Few convert to some liberal Protestant church over gluttony or sloth; few openly dissent from Church teaching over the fact that anger and greed are considered sin; few attack the Church for its position on envy and pride. But lust is the secular culture’s god, and they consider any attack on it to be blasphemy.
Anyone who supports sins of lust is against God.
As for the other poster’s point, the problem is that lust is a major reason for heresy and apostasy today. Few convert to some liberal Protestant church over gluttony or sloth; few openly dissent from Church teaching over the fact that anger and greed are considered sin; few attack the Church for its position on envy and pride. But lust is the secular culture’s god, and they consider any attack on it to be blasphemy.
Anyone who supports sins of lust is against God.
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estesbob
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Actually threads about Harry Potter, communion in the hand and,proper dress at Church Far exceed the volume of any sex thread. The reason the Homosexual threads have any staying power in the first place is not because of wanting to discuss "lust " , it because so many people come here claiming it’s not a sin at all
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