Can a Homosexual become a Heterosexual?

[bbrenlatina]

Well it is my opinion that homosexuality can mean so many things to so many different people. There are so many schools of thought in that some people may be born with these tendencies but others choose this lifestyle but at the end of the day the TRUTH is that God created man and woman for the sole purpose of procreation thus to answer the question … yes! So the consequent question for those who believe that they were born homosexual … Would God, who is the Creator of life, create certain people with this tendency? If so, why?

 

[Eugenius]

The reason I can’t believe how long this has gone on is because the answer is simple. Sodomy is a sin. People can quit that sin because they have free will. Whether they can overcome same-sex attraction depends on the individual. Some can, and some can’t.

As for the other poster’s point, the problem is that lust is a major reason for heresy and apostasy today. Few convert to some liberal Protestant church over gluttony or sloth; few openly dissent from Church teaching over the fact that anger and greed are considered sin; few attack the Church for its position on envy and pride. But lust is the secular culture’s god, and they consider any attack on it to be blasphemy.

Anyone who supports sins of lust is against God.

I understand your point, but on the other hand CAF does not seem to be as obsessed with adultery and fornication, which I think would also be lust issues. On homosexuality I think it is just easier for people to weigh in on what they consider as “someone else’s sin.” The other sins probably hit too close to home and have already been absorbed into the general culture.

 

[Eugenius]

Actually threads about Harry Potter, communion in the hand and,proper dress at Church Far exceed the volume of any sex thread. The reason the Homosexual threads have any staying power in the first place is not because of wanting to discuss "lust " , it because so many people come here claiming it’s not a sin at all

I was responding to someone’s comment about the seven capital sins. The other topics you mentioned are not capital sins, or are you saying that they are?

Do you have access to the percentages that certain topics receive on CAF? That would be interesting to see.

 

[Eugenius]

Well it is my opinion that homosexuality can mean so many things to so many different people. There are so many schools of thought in that some people may be born with these tendencies but others choose this lifestyle but at the end of the day the TRUTH is that God created man and woman for the sole purpose of procreation thus to answer the question … yes! So the consequent question for those who believe that they were born homosexual … Would God, who is the Creator of life, create certain people with this tendency? If so, why?

I don’t think that the Catholic Church teaches that our sole purpose is to procreate. If that is true, then why does God make some people infertile? Single people and those who enter religious life don’t procreate, so they don’t have a purpose?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I understand your point, but on the other hand CAF does not seem to be as obsessed with adultery and fornication, which I think would also be lust issues. On homosexuality I think it is just easier for people to weigh in on what they consider as “someone else’s sin.” The other sins probably hit too close to home and have already been absorbed into the general culture.

This is not to discount the sins of adultery and fornication which are sinful behaviors comparable to acts by those engaging in homosexual sex. All these are outside marriage, traditionally defined in religious and social sense as one between a man and a woman.

You could say that heterosexual promiscuity, indulgence in premarital and extramarital sex appear to be more tolerated or “absorbed” into the general culture, but they more than not bring about crisis in relationships and families. I know of no one or have not heard of anyone who honestly takes pride in said sexual indulgences or would claim that they bring about favorable personal and social consequences.

SSA is frequently referred as a big cross to bear, which is not surprising. It is not only immoral as other mentioned sins in the category of lust but it is also generally regarded as abnormal or disordered.

Further, there are no vocal organized political groups or movements among adulterers and fornicators the way LGBT organizations or the gay movement are that fight to change / add to existing laws (i.e., SSM) or propagate a revised reading of biblical teachings against homosexual behavior.
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[Eugenius]

This is not to discount the sins of adultery and fornication which are sinful behaviors comparable to acts by those engaging in homosexual sex. All these are outside marriage, traditionally defined in religious and social sense as one between a man and a woman.

You could say that heterosexual promiscuity, indulgence in premarital and extramarital sex appear to be more tolerated or “absorbed” into the general culture, but they more than not bring about crisis in relationships and families. I know of no one or have not heard of anyone who honestly takes pride in said sexual indulgences or would claim that they bring about favorable personal and social consequences.

SSA is frequently referred as a big cross to bear, which is not surprising. It is not only immoral as other mentioned sins in the category of lust but it is also generally regarded as abnormal or disordered.

For accuracy sake, I do not believe that the church teaches that “having” SSA is immoral. Acting on it is.

Further, there are no vocal organized political groups or movements among adulterers and fornicators the way LGBT organizations or the gay movement are that fight to change / add to existing laws (i.e., SSM) or propagate a revised reading of biblical teachings against homosexual behavior.

No-fault divorce laws have changed, helped by Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California. Other laws on adultery have been in state law books for centuries, but have either changed, are ignored, or simply are not enforced. As you accurately stated adultery and fornication have already been absorbed by western culture to the point where people no longer experience public consequences for engaging in adultery or fornication, such as losing their jobs, experiencing harassment or being ostracized by their families. As we have discussed in other groups, some of the laws the SSM movement is seeking to change are not really defined anywhere in the church, such as hospital visitation or medical benefits.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

For accuracy sake, I do not believe that the church teaches that “having” SSA is immoral. Acting on it is.

You are right. My error. I meant to indicate that homosexual acts, not same sex attractions, are immoral.

No-fault divorce laws have changed, helped by Ronald Reagan when he was governor of California. Other laws on adultery have been in state law books for centuries, but have either changed, are ignored, or simply are not enforced. As you accurately stated adultery and fornication have already been absorbed by western culture to the point where people no longer experience public consequences for engaging in adultery or fornication, such as losing their jobs, experiencing harassment or being ostracized by their families. As we have discussed in other groups, some of the laws the SSM movement is seeking to change are not really defined anywhere in the church, such as hospital visitation or medical benefits.

The bolded part is not what I stated. Please re-read my statement.

The Church has been emphatic that homosexuals are to be afforded dignity and charity. Her position on SSM is clear. We can go on with a disccussion of if, when and where she should be defining specific legal rights of homosexuals in what they claim is ‘marriage’ between homosexuals on a different thread, as it would be out of topic here.
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[Eugenius]

The bolded part is not what I stated. Please re-read my statement.

You actually were paraphrasing what I had already said and I was restating it back to you with my original wording.

The Church has been emphatic that homosexuals are to be afforded dignity and charity. Her position on SSM is clear. We can go on with a disccussion of if, when and where she should be defining specific legal rights of homosexuals in what they claim is ‘marriage’ between homosexuals on a different thread, as it would be out of topic here.

We don’t need to discuss SSM here, that wasn’t my point. You said that there were no groups changing / or adding to existing laws regarding adultery or fornication and I pointed out that you were wrong.

 

[AndyF]

What are your thoughts?

Everyone is heterosexual. HS, has well has any other (?)S is a manifestation of chosen behavior.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

You actually were paraphrasing what I had already said and I was restating it back to you with my original wording.

I did not paraphrase, just lifted or quoted your statement verbatim. Go check. Anyway, whether you concede or not is of no import to the discussion, so I’ll let this go.

We don’t need to discuss SSM here, that wasn’t my point. You said that there were no groups changing / or adding to existing laws regarding adultery or fornication and I pointed out that you were wrong.

Just quickly so as not to go too OT, wrong, how? Which adultery / fornication groups, if there are any, advocate change/addition to existing laws to enshrine adultery or fornication, as the pro-gay crowd is doing in pushing SSM to be considered lawful in each and every state?
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[Jellen]

Yes but I think it is much easier for a woman. Women tend to be much more fluid when it comes to their orientation. A lot of us who used to be gay left the lifestyle for religious reasons. I was a lesbian in my 20s, celibate in my 30s, and married to a man since age 40. We have been married for 13 years. My orientation hasn’t changed, just my behavior. My belief is that being gay is often due to a combination of genetic, environmental, and/or hormonal reasons. And sometimes it is due to an unhealthy temptation, similar to any straight person’s temptation, dealing with adultery or pornography, etc. etc…I was told by a priest whom I saw for counseling that it was impossible for a gay person to change. I had testimonies with me of people who had changed and he refused to look at them. Guess I proved him wrong.

 

[Hadrianus]

I did not paraphrase, just lifted or quoted your statement verbatim. Go check. Anyway, whether you concede or not is of no import to the discussion, so I’ll let this go.

Just quickly so as not to go too OT, wrong, how? Which adultery / fornication groups, if there are any, advocate change/addition to existing laws to enshrine adultery or fornication, as the pro-gay crowd is doing in pushing SSM to be considered lawful in each and every state?
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I know we do need to resist the urge to go too OT, but actually for several generations now fornication and adultery have become so acceptable, that by popular convergence any laws opposing them have either been repealed or simply allowed to fall into obsolescence.
The introduction of no fault divorce was a kind of adulterers “liberation” movement, and the striking down of all laws restricting the sale of contraceptives did the same for fornication, as well as marriage as a purely sterile and antiprocreative “right”… Domestic partnership laws also benefit fornicating couples. And if any of these “rights” were removed, I think we would see a very organized Heterosexual Liberation Movement. In fact the gay lobby is just asking for the same right to institutionalized sin the straight crowd already have.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I know we do need to resist the urge to go too OT, but actually for several generations now fornication and adultery have become so acceptable, that by popular convergence any laws opposing them have either been repealed or simply allowed to fall into obsolescence.
The introduction of no fault divorce was a kind of adulterers “liberation” movement, and the striking down of all laws restricting the sale of contraceptives did the same for fornication, as well as marriage as a purely sterile and antiprocreative “right”… Domestic partnership laws also benefit fornicating couples. And if any of these “rights” were removed, I think we would see a very organized Heterosexual Liberation Movement. In fact the gay lobby is just asking for the same right to institutionalized sin the straight crowd already have.

Sigh. It was lawmakers who introduced no fault divorce laws against the admonition of Church leaders, to unclog the court system of divorce cases each of which took a long time to settle. It was pharmaceuticals that saw the tremendous profit in contraceptive pills and thus invented and marketed it.

I will not argue that the confluence of these forces helped promote the culture of promotion of adultery and fornication. However, I would not find an equivalence of a non-existing heterosexual movement enshrining into law sexual freedoms with legal benefits with the homosexual movement push for same sex marriage.

In effect, you are saying the gay lobby is piggybacking on the excesses brought about by the women’s liberation movement which had its impetus with the birth control pill. Pope Paul VI in his encyclical Humane Vitae 45 years ago correctly identified the decline of the family and society when the unitive and procreative aspects of love between a man and a woman are separated.

*“The gay lobby is just asking for the same right to institutionalized sin the straight crowd already have.” *That’s a sad justification, let’s just accept and enjoy the stew of sin and violation of natural law, to the peril of the family and society, and our souls.

That said, I yield further discussion of the OP. If I have not mentioned it yet in this thread, by God’s grace and the individual’s motivation, a homosexual can become a heterosexual. For those who are unable to re-orient their sexual attraction away from the same sex and towards the opposite sex, acting on homosexual urges may be sublimated, making for an exquisite offering to God.
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[michelleds]

If I have not mentioned it yet in this thread, by God’s grace and the individual’s motivation, a homosexual can become a heterosexual. For those who are unable to re-orient their sexual attraction away from the same sex and towards the opposite sex, acting on homosexual urges may be sublimated, making for an exquisite offering to God.

yes, exactly.

I believe that these discussions come about in large part because in the 20th and now 21st century, we came to believe that sex is some sort of inalienable right. subconsciously it would appear that we as a society believe that if someone is denied “the right to have sex” then that person will (a) explode, (b) die, (c) suffer physical and mental illnesses, and/or (d) become a pedophile. we equate sex with love and love with sex. if someone isn’t having sex, then they aren’t being loved.

Read many of the posts on this topic on CAF and the sub-text is often just this message. have you ever noticed how if someone says that they don’t watch TV or says they don’t a TV, you have this sort of petty “i hate them” kind of thought? come on, you know what I’m talking about. I think it’s the same thing with illicit sex. if you’re having or have had or like thinking about illicit sex, then you can’t stand the person who rejects illicit sex. you have to bring them down to your level, otherwise, how can you feel good about yourself?

the focus should actually be on God’s commandments, God’s love sustaining us, and “love others as I have loved you” meaning that the highest form of love is a pure, non-sexual love.

If someone were to ask me how I identify these days, my answer would be simply, “fully compliant with the Catholic Church” because I do not believe that anyone’s focus should be on sexuality, it should be on God and being not submissive to God’s will, but in full uniformity with God’s will. “Thy will be done, and because it is Thy will, it is mine as well.”

 

[speakttruth]

Yes but I think it is much easier for a woman. Women tend to be much more fluid when it comes to their orientation. A lot of us who used to be gay left the lifestyle for religious reasons. I was a lesbian in my 20s, celibate in my 30s, and married to a man since age 40. We have been married for 13 years. My orientation hasn’t changed, just my behavior. My belief is that being gay is often due to a combination of genetic, environmental, and/or hormonal reasons. And sometimes it is due to an unhealthy temptation, similar to any straight person’s temptation, dealing with adultery or pornography, etc. etc…I was told by a priest whom I saw for counseling that it was impossible for a gay person to change. I had testimonies with me of people who had changed and he refused to look at them. Guess I proved him wrong.

Hi,
I am so happy for you that you have change your life and have come back to God. I don’t know what priest said that it was impossible for a gay person to change, but he is wrong and not educated in that term from the Courage group. No one in Courage would ever say it is impossible to change. .www.couragerc.net The Courage website would tell you better, but the point is, you are not and were not gay. We don’t use the term orientation either. All these terms are the devils tactics. That term gay is a term used by the gay activists to self identify your sexuality as a person. It was made up by the activists to make homosexual activity more palatable for deceiving the public. So it wouldn’t be so gross, of which we know the truth. Our sexuality is not who we are in those terms. We call it Same Sex Attraction. The other terms they use really is self demeaning to the person. What ever isn’t natural to the creation of our bodies would be a disorder of the persons sexual preference. Not the person. SSA is one of them. If we were attracted to anything other that the opposite sex, it is not what God intended by the very nature of our bodies parts and the complimentary relationship between a man and women, physically and emotionally. I think that denying it is being blinded by the the feelings instead of the reality. So many sins involve the flesh and people are guiding themselves by these feelings that can change at any moment instead of using our intelligence.

We have a small part of our lives that is our sexuality, compared to the many things that make up who we are. As far as the attraction you said you got married later, which means you became attracted to the right sex. Now if you had previous relationship with the same sex, then you can be tempted like any sin as you say. You have changed your life to becoming more holy and married, and with the grace of God those temptations can diminish over time. I say that is the success of change.

I don’t believe your priest , seems educated in this area. I think that he is leading people astray in his counseling if this is what you say he has said. He should be directing people to Courage, the only ministry approved by the Pontificate. Also their is an Encourage group that helps parents and loved ones deal with their loved ones with SSA and who want to lead a homosexual lifestyle. I am part of that group which has helped so many people. I will tell them of another successful story. Many priests don’t have this ministry, because I believe they are dealing with SSA themselves, otherwise why wouldn’t they want to help men and women become chaste and also a possibility if the person desires to see reparative therapy, which they do not push, but give you the resource for the ones that would like to heal and become married and have children.

Praise God for he helped you heal and changed your life. Nothing is impossible for God. Pray for that priest, we need all the priests that are holy we can get. They are the only ones that can make the Eucharist.
God bless

 

[anrmenchaca47]

I voted “no” since, even though an unknown number of women experience spontaneous change in sexual orientation, there is no evidence that common sense methods or psychotherapy can help people change their sexual orientation.

To explore this issue further, I would suggest the following resources.
Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation – This is the most comprehensive review of sexual orientation change efforts (SOCEs) to date. The authors found the evidence for change underwhelming, but observed also that gay affirmative therapy is not appropriate for all clients. They recommend helping clients gain more self-determination by working with them to develop a sexual orientation identity that is consonant with their values.

Ex-gay Research: Analyzing the Spitzer Study And Its Relation to Science, Religion, Politics And Culture – A collection of papers about the infamous Spitzer (2003) study. Represents fairly and accurately the two sides of the controversy between the APA and NARTH.

Ex-gays? A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation – The best study on SOCEs so far, despite some major methodological flaws. The most telling result is that success was not defined as change from homosexuality to heterosexuality, but as change from homosexuality-or-bisexuality to a “meaningful if complicated heterosexuality.”

Even though I answered yes above, the bible makes mention, I believe about people having a calling. The reason I says this is that may be, and I stress MAY BE some men and women are not attracted to the opposite sex because they have a greater calling to God. Case in point St.Catherine of Siena had no physical and emtional attraction to men. This didn’t mean she was attracted to the same sex, quite the contrary, the only one she was attracted too, spiritually and devotionally, was Jesus Christ. Perhaps it as a calling for those to serve God and become celibate through sacrifice and give up fleshly and worldy desires. Just what I was thinking is all.

 

[michelleds]

Ezekiel 36:25-27

On my phone so I’m not going to type that passage out.

 

[Hopemercy]

Two points.

A woman married with kids; badly abused over time by a violent husband. Turns to women for physical comfort. Gets then deeply involved with that scene, than responds to her deep seated awareness that this lifestyle is against God. Has a terrible time getting free of the women by the way// Does an Alpha course and retiurns to her Church. Anglican is and was her heritage.

Point 2; we are seeing especially men who have been abused who then turn to a homosexual life. Many are very very bitter and angry againts the Church. Common also among “spoiled priests” who havebeen abused at seminary here.

 

[Eugenius]

I know we do need to resist the urge to go too OT, but actually for several generations now fornication and adultery have become so acceptable, that by popular convergence any laws opposing them have either been repealed or simply allowed to fall into obsolescence.
The introduction of no fault divorce was a kind of adulterers “liberation” movement, and the striking down of all laws restricting the sale of contraceptives did the same for fornication, as well as marriage as a purely sterile and antiprocreative “right”… Domestic partnership laws also benefit fornicating couples. And if any of these “rights” were removed, I think we would see a very organized Heterosexual Liberation Movement. In fact the gay lobby is just asking for the same right to institutionalized sin the straight crowd already have.

Yep, my point exactly. Of course there aren’t people marching and protesting for the right to commit adultery and fornicate, they already know that they can do whatever they want. Heck, they could even become President of the United States and be idolized as a “conservative.”

 

[Eugenius]

Yes but I think it is much easier for a woman. Women tend to be much more fluid when it comes to their orientation. A lot of us who used to be gay left the lifestyle for religious reasons. I was a lesbian in my 20s, celibate in my 30s, and married to a man since age 40. We have been married for 13 years. My orientation hasn’t changed, just my behavior. My belief is that being gay is often due to a combination of genetic, environmental, and/or hormonal reasons. And sometimes it is due to an unhealthy temptation, similar to any straight person’s temptation, dealing with adultery or pornography, etc. etc…I was told by a priest whom I saw for counseling that it was impossible for a gay person to change. I had testimonies with me of people who had changed and he refused to look at them. Guess I proved him wrong.

You state “My orientation hasn’t changed, just my behavior.” Do I understand correctly that you are still attracted to women, but have just changed your behavior?

Then you state that your priest said that it was impossible for a gay person to change and you “proved him wrong.” How did you prove him wrong when you just told us that your orientation did not change?

I think the general consensus is that some can change and some can’t.