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speakttruth
Guest
Your point? Are you saying we shouldn’t trust the church and we should trust the APA?
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speakttruth
Guest
Amen!
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes. When the Church says that some people unquestionably have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, that is what is meant. There are some people for whom any change in their most profound tendency is simply not realistic. They are welcome to try to change, some people report that they have been able to change, but it is not fair to tell anyone that he or she they should expect that a change is necessarily possible. That just isn’t true.
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Crumpy
Guest
I think that sexual orientation can be changed, but I don’t know if anybody knows yet how to do it.
First of all, I think the individual needs to want to change. I think it would take a consistent effort to make a change.
Second, I don’t think we really know how to do it.
Third, I think a drug will be used to make this change in the future. Then, the question is, will all those with same-sex attraction use it?
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
And then there is me, but I’m a freak so I don’t count
:bighanky:
The Catechisms actually don’t even hint at same sex attraction being treatable
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Mustang1971
Guest
Hey Dakota Roberts! I am also SSA and don’t think for a moment you are a freak. You are a child of God! That makes you a tressure beyond anyting on this Earth!
I don’t know why or how you and I and the rest of our SSA brothers and sisters ended up with SSA, but that is not really important. The importatnt part is to walk in the light of Christ and you can have a happy and full life!
Here is a link to a video I found extremely helpful.
youtube.com/watch?v=K0sILSapUUc
God Bless. Please feel free to PM me if you would like.
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vera_dicere
Guest
I think its too vaste a subject to have one answer solidly pointing one way or the other.
I also think there are various reasons for an individual being SSA. Possible hormonal influences in the womb, social conditioning, harm by one gender leading them to embrace their own, I don’t currently put much stock in a “gay gene” as its much too simplistic.
So, I think its perfectly possible for a person with SSA to become hetrosexual - especially in emotional and social conditioning reasons. Hormonal influences in the womb that has caused them some damage might be a little harder to break.
I also think there are various reasons for an individual being SSA. Possible hormonal influences in the womb, social conditioning, harm by one gender leading them to embrace their own, I don’t currently put much stock in a “gay gene” as its much too simplistic.
So, I think its perfectly possible for a person with SSA to become hetrosexual - especially in emotional and social conditioning reasons. Hormonal influences in the womb that has caused them some damage might be a little harder to break.
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speakttruth
Guest
Living a chaste life is the change that is possible. St. Paul said that we become a new creation in Christ. That is the change that is expected. If someone desires, truly desires that they want to have a relationship that God intended them for, then it depends on the person’s faith for one, but if they have been in that life for so long that they can’t get those pictures out of their head, they may feel it may not be fair in their mind to burden someone else’s life with their baggage. So it depends.
If God didn’t create us to have SS, then why would it be impossible for someone to revert to their proper attraction that they should have had in the first place? I believe the ones that don’t want to deal with a relationship may just want to give their whole life to God and that may be what God wants for them, but others may really want to have a marriage and children and want to see if that is possible. Good therapy that can identify the wounds that brought the attraction to the wrong sex, along with the person’s faith have had success in that area. They were not born this way, they developed it from many factors. Never give up with God. All things are possible with God, but how much does a person want it and their faith will depend on it as well as God’s will. I don’t think that Jesus said anything in this life is going to be easy, but he did say it would be worth it. Won’t we always have temptations in life? That is why everything depends on God.
Never give in and never give up!
God Bless
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michelleds
Guest
yes, absolutely!
(from another with SSA)
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estesbob
Guest
That is because Catechism deals with theology, not science. . The catechism affirms what the church says-that regardless of the “cause” of same-sex attraction homosexual behavior is a grievous sin and imperils one’s immortal soul.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes.
There are many people who might ask God, “Why did you make me thus?” That is not something we are always given to know. All we know is that all of us are made so that, with the application of grace, our lives can come to reflect the image and the likeness of God.
There are people who are born without the emotional capacity to feel empathy. I don’t know what the current term is, but they used to be called sociopaths.
A sociopath is not criminally insane. He is capable of learning moral rules and following moral law. What he is not capable of doing and not going to become capable of doing is to develop emotional feelings for other people. Rather, a sociopath is going to have to spend his entire life battling his own impulsiveness and desire for stimulation, battling to act in ways that respect the rights and needs of others even though he does not naturally see those rights as having any real substance, and battling the tempation to lie and manipulate in order to get what he wants. He is going to have to raise the ability to repent even though he is incapable of feeling guilt, shame, or contrition. In other words, his entire moral life has to be built on intellect and will, or he’s not going to have any moral life at all. He goes through life riding a mount that will never be entirely domesticated.
The moral life is not built on the ability to manufacture “appropriate” feelings or to extinguish “inappropriate” ones. A moral life is built on the ability to use emotions a teacher about one’s interior life–it is arguable that one must give some room to the emotions in order to live at all–but never to allow the emotions to become the ultimate master of one’s actions.
When one is afflicted with “inappropriate” emotions and impulses, we learn that the emotions are “teachers” who have to be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least. This is true of all of us, since we all have the self-centered perspective of original sin to some extent. That is the “emotional disorder” that we all share. The emotions are a combination of direct felt experience and our conscious and unconscious interpretation of the experiences and bodily reaction to them. Most of all, the emotions are a part of ourselves that are not under our control to an unlimited extent, and which have far more powerful than we can entirely comprehend. They defy our total control, and they punish those who try to take total control of them through self-inflicted psychic violence. The emotions must be controlled with some measure of compassion towards onesself as a human being, or their power will totally overwhelm all attempts at control. That is why we can’t rely on willpower alone, but also have to look for the help of grace and avoid near occasions of sin. You can’t ride an elephant, after all, unless you remember that you have no choice in the end but to let it be an elephant. That is the only way you’ll ever keep it perfectly disciplined.
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speakttruth
Guest
Dakota, you are not a freak. God doesn’t make freaks. People transform themselves in what they feel instead of what their intelligence says about the reality of what they have been created for. You have been wounded in your life and you need to find the answers to move on. The best think you are doing is not acting out on it. God loves every human being on the planet and he wants all his children to come to him, but as he commands us to be as his and not what we want. The temptations are from the devil. He found a weakness in you and that is going to be your cross, but that is not the end of the story. God doesn’t rush and if anything is rushed it is not from God. You must trust in him completely, he will not be outdone by his mercy and generosity.
The Catechism does not hint about it because it is suppose to tell us it’s wrong and we are still to be loving to people with this cross. But the indication of how God created man is proof that he wants us to follow his creation as the creator. You are in a world now that has more temptations for SSA along with many other temptations that are very appealing to the senses of the body and the devil is a deceiver. Look at the pornography that is easily available to anyone. You have a fight on your hands. Your young, you will be tempted more because the devil wants your life. Read the book Unbound a practical guide to deliverance by Neil Lozano. It was very helpful to me as you know that my son has SSA. I will continue to pray for you.
God bless you and all who suffer from this cross.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Actually I was joking because of Wardog’s ridiculous statement, although I will admit I am a neat freak
“Beyond anything on this Earth”? How about every other person?
The night is so dark and lonely
It was interesting,
Be a saint, what else is there?
Well, yesterday I did a black fast and I prayed to God before class to give me a sign if I should pursue him or not and I got hugged by him. I’m continuing my black fast for the rest of the week at least, I’ve prayed the rosary nine times today and I feel positively euphoric.
:extrahappy:
“If” is the operative word. For perhaps some who have SSA were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are some who were made so by men: and there are others who work for the kingdom of heaven. Perhaps God has a purpose for us, the purpose of suffering is to bring about greater good so doesn’t much suffering bring about great good?
“For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” Sorta sounds like he’s saying something is easy
There seems to be a lot of usyes, absolutely!
Great post (as pretty much always)
“You have been wounded in your life”? I suppose nearly getting my face beat in counts (they thought I was Muslim), but since the perps were guys I fail to see how that would make me gay. I haven’t been tempted by things labelled as sins though (at least nothing I can find in the Catechisms). Pretty much everyone wants to be loved. I do trust God completely.
The Catechisms tell us homosexual acts are mortally sinful. I will remain completely faithful to the Catholic Church and to God, they will keep me safe.
How other people see us can really hurt, you for example see us as broken human beings, you seem to think that if we figure out what broke us we can go be the people we were meant to be, heterosexuals. To be seen as broken in a way makes us feel degraded, subhuman, it feels absolutely terrible. Can you understand how it feels to talk to Catholics, priests even who find the concept of someone gay trying to be chaste, laughable, contemptible even? Can you really understand how it feels to be thrown out by your parents at an extremely vulnerable point in your life? Can you understand how it feels to be an unperson? Can you understand how it feels to be passed over when you try to volunteer because everyone is afraid of the freak molesting their child? Can you understand how it feels to be told never to make friends with the same gender lest you might want to screw, to basically be told to run away from your shadow? Do you know how it feels to have no destination, to in effect be forced to wander aimlessly?
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michelleds
Guest
Dakota, please, find a Courage chapter near you. www.couragerc.net I continue to read conflict in your posts and I believe that you very much need a mentor and/or spiritual director. Altho I’ve seen contradictory statements in more than one post, for a specific example, see the above quote. This does not sound like someone adhering to the Catholic teachings, which you state later in the same post that you are. What is your purpose in “pursuing him”? You need to sit down face to face with someone and talk about all of this. You might want to start by not referring to and thinking of yourself as gay. You are a child of God who suffers SSA. That is not synonymous with “gay”. In Christ, Michelle
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michelleds
Guest
I am 43 years old and have seen it all. However, the reason much of that is bothering you so much is because you continue to struggle with your “identity”. Stop trying to identify, and make everyone else identify you, as gay. Were you personally thrown out? were you personally laughed at by a priest? are those things above your personal experience or ones you’ve read about? I’m not trying to be mean, but I am being harsh–giving you a little tough love. Stop whining, stop trying to carry the biggest cross, and submit your will to God’s.
Yes, having SSA is difficult, made the more so by our society of instant gratification, belly button gazing, and belief that morals are for dolts. So man up! Meet the challenge, with grace, with dignity, and with pride. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BE A LEADER, TO BE A LIGHT AND A WITNESS TO OTHERS WHO STRUGGLE.
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speakttruth
Guest
Dakota,
I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I feel so much of your pain and can understand some of those things. Aren’t we all broke in some ways? I have over fifty years of similar rejections, taunting, abandonment, my father was an alcoholic and committed suicide, my son had brain cancer and a spinal tumor, no support from family, unkind treatment to my son and so many things except the SSA. Besides being a parent of one that believes it is OK to be gay. When he came out on the INTERNET, trashing his family, he actually made life more difficult for himself. He was the most loved child and we did everything to make up for cruel people in his life. We were horrified for him and ourselves. He turned from a caring son to this person we didn’t know. I warned him not to tell people his sexual preference, because they would treat him different and they did and do and not any of it is positive, except the gay community that he feels that he has friends with now that believe the same lies he does. They have treated him poorly too. You don’t have to believe that your SSA has to be changed. Your loving God and being chaste and that can be enough for someone. But, it is not demeaning if you would want to choose to try and heal those things that affected your SSA and may change your feelings to the opposite sex. Don’t listen to the nay sayers. Look at what you said you went through. Those were terrible traumas in your life. You don’t think they didn’t cause any of your SSA? Anger, resentments, low self esteem, shame, no affirmation from friends and some of your family. God can heal anything, but he didn’t say we couldn’t find out why they came about, besides the influence of the devil in our lives. Your young and you do not know what is ahead of you. The devil will put more things in your way and you have to know your own weakness and his tactics. Take every advantage to know yourself.
A man I met at the courage conference has something similar to my son’s non verbal learning disorder. Aspergers. He said he was attracted to women now and knows with his disability he would not be a good husband or father. It took him till he was forty to find out what was his issues for the SSA and came to Courage. I believe those wounds you have are the reason for your SSA. God did make us in the image and likeness of him. If we are not conforming or acting or even feeling these things than we have to do something about it. It’s a choice. As long as you are following him. I have had many things that have brought me to this point in my life and some things at first needed a good Christian therapist because I did not know what to do except run to church. The more I got into my faith, I no longer needed one. Their is no shame if someone wants to pursue this path of therapy for their SSA and no shame if you don’t. Even if you were to know and heal, you would still have a cross to carry. Don’t worry God will put another one there for you. You just have to agree to carry it.
I look at it this way we may not see our complete brokenness until a bomb goes off and after the smoke clears, some of us see the love of Christ and follow him, others go to the world.
We are like a house that sometimes need constant repairs to fix things when they are broken, and we don’t know when things will break or what things will break, but we know we will be fixing something, because our house isn’t going to ever be perfect, but we try . Depending on the person the house will get good repairs or temporary ones or none. One thing that is the best for our house is when the mortgage is paid off. That’s the goal. Heaven
God love you and God bless you
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
My diocese doesn’t have one, I checked.
How would I go about getting a spiritual director?
“Pursuing him” was a poor choice of words, I want to take him to the Home Coming dance. I’m not really sure how to explain how I feel, when I’m with him I feel all warm, fuzzy and even bubbly. I do not however want to engage in sex with him, I wouldn’t want him to mortally sin.
Those are experiences of people I met when I helped out at a homeless shelter, it hurts to see what they went through, some later committed suicide.
I’m sorry, I get angry when I see injustice
You’re talking to a mediaevalist, you don’t need to explain how awful the present is.
I try to choose to not be a leader, but I wind up the leader anyway, it generally turns out well, but it is absolutely exhausting.
I’m sorry I snapped at you.Dakota,
snip
A man I met at the courage conference has something similar to my son’s non verbal learning disorder. Aspergers. He said he was attracted to women now and knows with his disability he would not be a good husband or father. It took him till he was forty to find out what was his issues for the SSA and came to Courage. I believe those wounds you have are the reason for your SSA. God did make us in the image and likeness of him. If we are not conforming or acting or even feeling these things than we have to do something about it. It’s a choice. As long as you are following him. I have had many things that have brought me to this point in my life and some things at first needed a good Christian therapist because I did not know what to do except run to church. The more I got into my faith, I no longer needed one. Their is no shame if someone wants to pursue this path of therapy for their SSA and no shame if you don’t. Even if you were to know and heal, you would still have a cross to carry. Don’t worry God will put another one there for you. You just have to agree to carry it.
I look at it this way we may not see our complete brokenness until a bomb goes off and after the smoke clears, some of us see the love of Christ and follow him, others go to the world.
We are like a house that sometimes need constant repairs to fix things when they are broken, and we don’t know when things will break or what things will break, but we know we will be fixing something, because our house isn’t going to ever be perfect, but we try . Depending on the person the house will get good repairs or temporary ones or none. One thing that is the best for our house is when the mortgage is paid off. That’s the goal. Heaven
God love you and God bless you
That’s terrible, how could he start trashing his family? I love my family even my siblings.
In a way, what happened to your son reminds me of the parable of the prodigal son.
What I have learned from all I have suffered is to love those who hate me, forgive those who hurt me, compassion for all and that even in our darkest moments God loves us all. I have learned that forgiveness heals and renews both the receiver, that one should always hope for the future and trust God.
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michelleds
Guest
You didn’t check very well. There is one located 38 minutes away from you. I drive that far to attend Mass.
California, San Francisco - Fr. Mark Taheny (415) 461-0704
OR Fr. Anselm Ramelow, O.P.
(415) 567-7824
San Francisco Bay Area: Confidential Courage Hotline – (650) 450-2286
Then you are acting in complete contradiction to your stated goal/desire. Dakota, you really need to call that hotline above and talk to someone. I’m very afraid that while you have the best of intentions, you are playing with fire and are going to get burned. I think that you are quite young, and you definitely need someone to talk to…not email, not post on a forum, but actually talk to, for guidance.
As do I, Dakota, but you are using other people’s experiences to somehow justify your own feelings of victimhood. it sounds to me like you’ve had it pretty good, even up to and including an accepting Catholic family who is trying to support you during this time of trial.
In Christ,
Michelle
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Ahimsa
Guest
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
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speakttruth
Guest
It’s ok Dakota, I know your struggling, (hug) but the other post had a good idea, you really need to talk to someone you can trust. I know that you have a trust issue, but really Fr. Check is very helpful. I know him personally and he is so full of love for helping all of you that are struggling and the parent’s like me that are struggling too. He is such a blessing. Their is a man that you can contact, that works for him and he has been through a lot and he has been working for Courage for years now. He knew Fr. Harvey and knows Fr. Check. You really need the one on one even if it’s on the phone. If it’s true their is a courage near you then that may be a blessing too. Fr. will tell you if it’s a good one. Your not going to get the real help you need on the internet and on this forum. I know you are really trying to live a Christian faith and you are one of my hero’s because you know it’s wrong and have not acted out on it. The past is not your doing in your life who have hurt you, but you will have to deal with it in therapy or trusted person to move on. Please contact them. God bless
Yes, my son is the prodigal, but when he comes back I will have open arms for him. I have forgiven him, but sometimes I have to keep forgiving again, because some things get stirred up from the devil. He knows our weaknesses, don’t forget. My son is like a child and this is how I have to look at it. His brain doesn’t process the same as most, so patience is a virtue I struggle with.
GB
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