can a lay woman lead a penance service?

[robwar]

There should never be a Communion Service on a weekday. If no priest is available, Mass is to be canceled.

Communion services are only for Sundays and Holy Days where there is an obligation to attend.

God Bless

What is your reference for your statement from Church documents? I’ve seen communion services a number of times when the Priest is unavailable during the week. Where is proof of what you are asserting?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

No, I’d be missing an opportunity to be harassed by a wacko female wannabe looking for a captive audience.

I’d walk out.

WOW, just WOW!!

So very charitable of you…

 

[iloveangels]

WOW, just WOW!!

So very charitable of you…

NO, charity would consist of women who don’t put us through this nonsense. I hate walking into a church only to find a mess like this. It’s a complete pain in the neck. Luckily, there’s no reason I have to stay when I find something like this. I just walk out. End of story.

 

[jpjd]

I’ve seen communion services during the week when there was enough consecrated hosts and no priest available lead by a nun in an alb. These types of threads are difficult to answer and assess because none of us were there. The best thing would be to have your son check with the campus chapel or the priest who is running it and ask about what he observed or thought he observed and why. Was the women a nun or some sort of campus minister or pastoral assistant? Was this just scripture reading and the women leading it was wearing an alb because that is what their lectors wear? Why was this a “penance” service with no priest to hear confession and give absolution? He should try to get answers from the chapel instead of having it go third person on the internet.

With all due respect, please read the original post before responding so that you can respond to the actual facts.

First of all: There was no communion service. It was a penance service that consisted of 1) Liturgy of the Word, followed by 2) sacrament of penance.

Second of all: As was clearly stated in my post #1, there were several priests available to hear confessions.

 

[bilop]

What is your reference for your statement from Church documents? I’ve seen communion services a number of times when the Priest is unavailable during the week. Where is proof of what you are asserting?

The ritual is called “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest”. Isn’t that clear enough?

From Redemptionis Sacramentum.

1. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest

[162.] On the day known as the Lord’s Day, the Church faithful gathers together to commemorate the Lord’s Resurrection and the whole Paschal Mystery, especially by the celebration of Mass.[263] For “no Christian community is built up unless it is rooted in and hinges upon the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist”.[264] Hence it is the Christian people’s right to have the Eucharist celebrated for them on Sunday, and whenever holydays of obligation or other major feasts occur, and even daily insofar as this is possible. Therefore when it is difficult to have the celebration of Mass on a Sunday in a parish church or in another community of Christ’s faithful, the diocesan Bishop together with his Priests should consider appropriate remedies.[265] Among such solutions will be that other Priests be called upon for this purpose, or that the faithful transfer to a church in a nearby place so as to participate in the Eucharistic mystery there.[266]

…

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause,”[269] then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.[270]

Note: all discussion is about Sundays and feasts.

God Bless

 

[iloveangels]

Pssst. I actually think this thread is about penance services, not Communion services.

I’d still walk out anyway, but they are two different things.

 

[bilop]

Pssst. I actually think this thread is about penance services, not Communion services.

I’d still walk out anyway, but they are two different things.

I know, but someone mentioned daily communion services as a justification for the woman leading this penance service.

I simply wanted to point out that there shouldn’t be daily commnunion services, so it’s not a good justification.

God Bless

 

[iloveangels]

I know, but someone mentioned daily communion services as a justification for the woman leading this penance service.

I simply wanted to point out that there shouldn’t be daily commnunion services, so it’s not a good justification.

God Bless

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification, then.

 

[robwar]

With all due respect, please read the original post before responding so that you can respond to the actual facts.

First of all: There was no communion service. It was a penance service that consisted of 1) Liturgy of the Word, followed by 2) sacrament of penance.

Second of all: As was clearly stated in my post #1, there were several priests available to hear confessions.

I did but again, maybe this should not be asked in third person by you on the internet but approach the priests that were running it. I’ve seen lectors wear albs so if she was assigned to read by the priests I’m not sure what to say. No one on CAF is a liturgical expert and my main point is that questions about what happen or didn’t happen at any kind of service should be addressed directly to those involved.

 

[iloveangels]

I did but again, maybe this should not be asked in third person by you on the internet but approach the priests that were running it. I’ve seen lectors wear albs so if she was assigned to read by the priests I’m not sure what to say. No one on CAF is a liturgical expert and my main point is that questions about what happen or didn’t happen at any kind of service should be addressed directly to those involved.

No need to ask any questions, even. If I see this happening, it’s bye bye. I don’t have to be party to it, or anything like it.

I don’t even care what their excuse is. Doesn’t matter to me.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

No need to ask any questions, even. If I see this happening, it’s bye bye. I don’t have to be party to it, or anything like it.

I don’t even care what their excuse is. Doesn’t matter to me.

So you wear a funny hat & carry a big stick now, eh?

What is being described by the OP is a perfectly acceptable penance service.

You may not like it, and that is your choice, but to demean a woman, whom you don’t know, and accuse her of things that again you have no proof of, is, at least in my humble opinion, unchariatable, and un-Christian.

 

[The_Idiot]

So you wear a funny hat & carry a big stick now, eh?

What is being described by the OP is a perfectly acceptable penance service.

You may not like it, and that is your choice, but to demean a woman, whom you don’t know, and accuse her of things that again you have no proof of, is, at least in my humble opinion, unchariatable, and un-Christian.

I’ll add to that and say grossly impolite .

 

[iloveangels]

So you wear a funny hat & carry a big stick now, eh?

What is being described by the OP is a perfectly acceptable penance service.

You may not like it, and that is your choice, but to demean a woman, whom you don’t know, and accuse her of things that again you have no proof of, is, at least in my humble opinion, unchariatable, and un-Christian.

No, as I said before, it’s uncharitable and un-Christian to put the faithful through this kind of nonsense in Church. I won’t be a party to it. When I see this kind of stuff, I just turn right around and walk out. Easy-peasy. I have no obligation to be involved in this kind of nonsense.

 

[iloveangels]

I think it has already been checked that a layperson can lead a prayer like this?
(And lay people, as you know, are of both male and female gender)

Liturgy means public worship…so a liturgical vestment is something to wear during public worship.
Would this prayer service for the public be defined as “public worship”?

Re the Alb…here’s the definition of what the garment is in the encyclopedia.
Does the Catholic religion follow the official dictionary/encyclopedia meaning of the word? If so, it looks fine for someone of female gender to wear one, too:

The alb (from the Latin Albus, meaning white), one of the liturgical vestments of the Roman Catholic, Anglican and many Protestant churches, is an ample white garment coming down to the ankles and is usually girdled with a cincture.
It is simply the long linen tunic used by the Romans.
In early Medieval Europe it was also normally worn by secular clergy in non-liturgical contexts.
It is the twelfth oldest liturgical vestment, and was adopted very early by Christians, and especially by the clergy for the Eucharistic liturgy. Nowadays, the alb is the common vestment for all ministers at Mass, both clerics and laypersons, …In some lower and broad Anglican churches, the alb is considered everyday wear.
.

I’m no Anglican. And I"m not talking about the various sundry uses of yard goods. I’m talking about walking into a Catholic church and finding a woman pontificating on the altar. It sends me right out the door. I have no obligation to spend my time that way.

And this whole gender thing has “jumped the shark.” It’s passe, dead, boring, over, a non-topic. Don’t care. Don’t have time for it.

 

[robwar]

So you wear a funny hat & carry a big stick now, eh?

What is being described by the OP is a perfectly acceptable penance service.

You may not like it, and that is your choice, but to demean a woman, whom you don’t know, and accuse her of things that again you have no proof of, is, at least in my humble opinion, unchariatable, and un-Christian.

exactly! I have lectured at penance services before. I did not wear an alb but in some places lectors do wear albs. That is the problem with these types of threads and questions, someone is asking for opinions from non-liturgical experts about something at a service or Mass that they themselves were not even at. Then others jump in with their reaction of walking out if they ever saw this happening and make judgements when they were not even there to know exactly what went on.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No, I’d be missing an opportunity to be harassed by a wacko female wannabe looking for a captive audience.

I’d walk out.

Very uncharitable and judgmental of you.

You have absolutely no way to know this sort of thing about the woman in question.

After seeing this behavior I am sure I would not want to be in any room with you.

 

[iloveangels]

exactly! I have lectured at penance services before. I did not wear an alb but in some places lectors do wear albs. That is the problem with these types of threads and questions, someone is asking for opinions from non-liturgical experts about something at a service or Mass that they themselves were not even at. Then others jump in with their reaction of walking out if they ever saw this happening and make judgements when they were not even there to know exactly what went on.

Yeah, I’d walk out on you too.

 

[robwar]

I’m no Anglican. And I"m not talking about the various sundry uses of yard goods. I’m talking about walking into a Catholic church and finding a woman pontificating on the altar. It sends me right out the door. I have no obligation to spend my time that way.

And this whole gender thing has “jumped the shark.” It’s passe, dead, boring, over, a non-topic. Don’t care. Don’t have time for it.

you are reacting to something you were not at and don’t even know what exactly went on.
If you don’t have time for it then why do you keep responding to this thread?

 

[robwar]

Yeah, I’d walk out on you too.

This getting beyond ridiculous, so you would walk out on any women lector?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

exactly! I have lectured at penance services before. I did not wear an alb but in some places lectors do wear albs. That is the problem with these types of threads and questions, someone is asking for opinions from non-liturgical experts about something at a service or Mass that they themselves were not even at. Then others jump in with their reaction of walking out if they ever saw this happening and make judgements when they were not even there to know exactly what went on.

The alb, as has been pointed out is our baptismal garment. Altar servers wear them. In some places girls are altar servers.

There was nothing wrong with this woman wearing one.

As this woman was leading a prayer service I am of the school of thought that those leading a prayer service should wear some sort of dress that calls out that function. The alb is just the sort of thing.