Can a man and a woman "just be friends?"

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EasterJoy said:
Exactly. The desire to avoid being a near occasion of sin doesn’t mean that it is within your power to remove concupiscence in your friends. It means you take reasonable steps to avoid inflaming it or weakening the person’s resolve to act virtuously, that’s all.
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Part of the trouble, I’ve found, is that what counts as a “reasonable step” is almost entirely arbitrary. I’ve found that anything, even smiling at someone or engaging in light, friendly conversation in public, seems to be a temptation to some men. Or rather, as a single woman, anything but being cold and refusing to interact with men gives some men the idea that you want to go out with them. I haven’t found this to be an isolated case either, especially in more conservative areas.

Unfortunately Rose71 is right on - there seem to be a lot of adult men with the self-control of little children. And honestly the sex obsession in modern conservative Christianity often gives them a free pass. We’ve become so afraid of our own lusts that we’ve turned them into uncontrollable monsters, and forgotten that they can be tamed.
 
DarkLight said:
Part of the trouble, I’ve found, is that what counts as a “reasonable step” is almost entirely arbitrary. I’ve found that anything, even smiling at someone or engaging in light, friendly conversation in public, seems to be a temptation to some men. Or rather, as a single woman, anything but being cold and refusing to interact with men gives some men the idea that you want to go out with them. I haven’t found this to be an isolated case either, especially in more conservative areas.

Unfortunately Rose71 is right on - there seem to be a lot of adult men with the self-control of little children. And honestly the sex obsession in modern conservative Christianity often gives them a free pass. We’ve become so afraid of our own lusts that we’ve turned them into uncontrollable monsters, and forgotten that they can be tamed.
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Hi Dark Light - I totally agree with you unfortunately. Some men so easily take anything as a ‘come on’. I think however that a friendship is possible if the two people respect each other enough ‘not to go there’ ie. they don’t flirt or make suggestive or leading comments that put ideas into the other person’s head. A friendship is possible as long as the conversation is all ‘above board’. Anything else is just unfair to each person and the situation if a relationship is impossible, and its not kind.
 
Joy2day said:
Hi Dark Light - I totally agree with you unfortunately. Some men so easily take anything as a ‘come on’. I think however that a friendship is possible if the two people respect each other enough ‘not to go there’ ie. they don’t flirt or make suggestive or leading comments that put ideas into the other person’s head. A friendship is possible as long as the conversation is all ‘above board’. Anything else is just unfair to each person and the situation if a relationship is impossible, and its not kind.
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It’s not just men who have that problem. I’ve seen that problem happen with women as well!
 
DarkLight said:
Part of the trouble, I’ve found, is that what counts as a “reasonable step” is almost entirely arbitrary. I’ve found that anything, even smiling at someone or engaging in light, friendly conversation in public, seems to be a temptation to some men. Or rather, as a single woman, anything but being cold and refusing to interact with men gives some men the idea that you want to go out with them. I haven’t found this to be an isolated case either, especially in more conservative areas.

Unfortunately Rose71 is right on - there seem to be a lot of adult men with the self-control of little children. And honestly the sex obsession in modern conservative Christianity often gives them a free pass. We’ve become so afraid of our own lusts that we’ve turned them into uncontrollable monsters, and forgotten that they can be tamed.
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It is not incumbent upon you to keep anyone from jumping to incorrect conclusions. It is only your duty to take what you have found to be reasonable steps to keep most reasonable people from jumping to conclusions under normal circumstances, and to be charitable about making corrections when someone makes an error about your intentions. You also need to assess what is a near occasion of sin for you, and perhaps put more strict boundaries on yourself than would be normally necessary, because you see that you need those boundaries in order to protect yourself from unduly tempting situations. I would be careful about relaxing your boundaries beyond what you believe most people need. That gives pride an opening to lead you stupidly into danger. (And, needless to say, we must also consider whether we are seen as an example for others, too.)

I suppose in some places the widespread expectations put undue boundaries on women, even to the point that the men do not have to put boundaries on themselves at all. When you are faced with a man who has been trained to have those expectations by those with authority over them, we must remember that it is his training that has put you both in this bad position, and not necessarily his own failure to restrain himself as he ought to (although of course that can be a compounding factor!) This would explain why the Lord expressed far more frustration at the teachers of the Law than at the general public who conducted their moral life with a poor understanding of what God wanted of them.

Maybe in that case, it forces you into an education project, where you put reasonable boundaries on yourself and by the concupiscence of others find yourself misunderstood and having to explain yourself a lot…which was pretty much the situation Our Lord found himself in. You will probably find some stones flying in your direction, just as He did, and you’ll have to choose your battles, just as He did. It is one of those things that comes from living in the vale of tears.
 
The worry is not just being misunderstood, though. I think my top worry is when resources are simply not available due to the concupisence of others. In the world of the church this takes the form of not having spiritually nourishing relationships, or having no resources to share study because the others desiring it are the opposite sex. In the working world it’s having a career stopped by good Christians in the name of their values not wanting to work with you. It’s very isolating if you’re not a typical man or woman - same-sex friendships don’t understand your struggles or share your interests, and opposite-sex ones stay too shallow.
 
I see Rose71’s point. So I don’t think anyone should dog her any further than she has been prior to even posting anything on this here. I know that feeling.

On another point I also liked the fact someone here brought up St. Francis and St. Clare. Have you seen that movie ‘Francis & Clare’? Gosh just mentioning it again, makes me want to see it again. I have to be house sitting at my brother’s today and he has it and I can’t wait to see it. Maybe I’ll do a late night there and see it. It is such an inspiring story of true and beautiful friendship toward creating true ministry that is everlasting toward God’s plan. Not a lot of us have that obedience but we can have it. If we truly want it and truly put God first.

I do think that if one is married or even in a serious relationship, and seek friends that are beyond acquaintances of the opposite sex, that is opening a door for emotional intimacy which is far stronger actually than physical intimacy. Ask yourself, do you and your significant other barbecue with this person. Does your significant other know them as well or better than you? It’s the same as cheating - to confide first in some other member of the opposite sex and/or to be trying to solve all their problems for them. You should have married your best friend and if you didn’t, you make your partner that best friend. Period.

Can they be friends. If they are single and unattached, even if ordained if both have good intentions and true obedience and where God IS first.
 
AlsoUnderFire said:
It’s the same as cheating - to confide first in some other member of the opposite sex and/or to be trying to solve all their problems for them. You should have married your best friend and if you didn’t, you make your partner that best friend. Period.
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You are setting up two false dichotomies:
  1. One can only have one friend of the opposite sex, who is the best friend, or none at all.
  2. One either confides first in the best friend of the opposite sex, or has no friends of the opposite sex.
Neither of these is accurate. I could have several friends of the opposite sex and yet always confide in my wife before them. I also fail to see how it is a problem to confide in friends of the opposite sex but it is not in the case of friends of the same sex.
 
Baelor said:
You are setting up two false dichotomies:
  1. One can only have one friend of the opposite sex, who is the best friend, or none at all.
  2. One either confides first in the best friend of the opposite sex, or has no friends of the opposite sex.
Neither of these is accurate. I could have several friends of the opposite sex and yet always confide in my wife before them. I also fail to see how it is a problem to confide in friends of the opposite sex but it is not in the case of friends of the same sex.
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And another:
  1. One either confides first in one’s spouse or has a good friend of the opposite sex.
I talk about most things in my life with my husband first and foremost. I also talk about many things in my life with my good male friends.

For instance, apart from shared interests such as literature, one thing I have in common with two of my best male friends is coming from a dysfunctional family. I talk to them about it a lot. The conversation is mutually beneficial, as we share insights and ways to grow, develop, and change.

I talk to my husband about it, too, but he comes from a loving family, and doesn’t relate in the same way. This is partly what makes him a good husband - he is a very stable, healthy, sane man.

My husband knows my male friends well, and we often all socialize together. However, often he will be the one to suggest I go out with my friends (male or female) so we can talk about our interests without wondering if he’s interested too and without the kids making noise.
 
DarkLight said:
The worry is not just being misunderstood, though. I think my top worry is when resources are simply not available due to the concupisence of others. In the world of the church this takes the form of not having spiritually nourishing relationships, or having no resources to share study because the others desiring it are the opposite sex. In the working world it’s having a career stopped by good Christians in the name of their values not wanting to work with you. It’s very isolating if you’re not a typical man or woman - same-sex friendships don’t understand your struggles or share your interests, and opposite-sex ones stay too shallow.
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There is a reason they had to put rules on the books to cover this kind of exclusion at work. It’s because there are too many employers that don’t concern themselves with fairness when fairness isn’t written out in a law.
 
In my opinion I don’t think they can “just be friends” there is always a level of attraction whether the person admits openly or doesn’t. However, I believe the age group does play factor…
 
Godisgreat23 said:
In my opinion I don’t think they can “just be friends” there is always a level of attraction whether the person admits openly or doesn’t. However, I believe the age group does play factor…
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I think that it is very possible. Though… it might help sometimes if the male is gay. hehe.
 
I think this always depends on the individuals involved and their circumstances at a given time. To presume that everyone else’s experiences in this regard are precisely the same as one’s own is exceedingly unhelpful.

Personally, I have had many “just friends” of the opposite sex. They have had no romantic attraction towards me, and I have had none towards them. However, there have *also *been males from whom I have had to distance myself when it became apparent that there was the hope of greater intimacy on either side.

That said, I have also known people who seem incapable of being within 50m of the opposite sex without forming an attraction! Perhaps these are people of whom it could be said that “just friends” would be impossible; but even then, circumstances change!
 
Godisgreat23 said:
In my opinion I don’t think they can “just be friends” there is always a level of attraction whether the person admits openly or doesn’t. However, I believe the age group does play factor…
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… So I have to be attracted to literally every male I know, or else literally every male I know is attracted to me? :confused: I highly doubt this.

I think men and women can indeed “just be friends”. I’m sure it’s theoretically possible for them to be best friends without attraction, and I know it’s possible for them to be regular friends. I am definitely not romantically interested in every male person I talk to.
 
Jennet said:
I think this always depends on the individuals involved and their circumstances at a given time. To presume that everyone else’s experiences in this regard are precisely the same as one’s own is exceedingly unhelpful.

Personally, I have had many “just friends” of the opposite sex. They have had no romantic attraction towards me, and I have had none towards them. However, there have *also *been males from whom I have had to distance myself when it became apparent that there was the hope of greater intimacy on either side.

That said, I have also known people who seem incapable of being within 50m of the opposite sex without forming an attraction! Perhaps these are people of whom it could be said that “just friends” would be impossible; but even then, circumstances change!
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This. I have friends that are very much like brothers to me. And I have had friends where an attraction developed. It really does depend on the circumstances. What is also difficult, but can be done, depending on the people involved, is maintaining a friendship once those feelings exist. I had a good friend who was attracted to me, we both knew it…we both also knew that it would never work, so we just acknowledged it and continued to hang out together. Eventually he got married and had kids. I continued to spend time with him and his family until they moved away.
 
Kamaduck said:
… So I have to be attracted to literally every male I know, or else literally every male I know is attracted to me? :confused: I highly doubt this.

I think men and women can indeed “just be friends”. I’m sure it’s theoretically possible for them to be best friends without attraction, and I know it’s possible for them to be regular friends. I am definitely not romantically interested in every male person I talk to.
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I never said both have to be its usually one sided but nobody will admit it PS I said attraction ( charm) not romantically interested…
 
Kamaduck said:
… So I have to be attracted to literally every male I know, or else literally every male I know is attracted to me? :confused: I highly doubt this.

I think men and women can indeed “just be friends”. I’m sure it’s theoretically possible for them to be best friends without attraction, and I know it’s possible for them to be regular friends. I am definitely not romantically interested in every male person I talk to.
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Well on a basic human level. yes you are attracted to every male you know. God made it that way. It is why the phrase “not if you were the last man on earth” is so ironic. God made us to procreate, he commanded it. So if you were the last 2 people on earth, the chemistry, the biology and the faith would dictate that you would follow God’s command… or else the Human creation would die. It started with 2 people of opposite sex it would not make sense for it to end that way.🤷
 
Moore11 said:
Well on a basic human level. yes you are attracted to every male you know. God made it that way. It is why the phrase “not if you were the last man on earth” is so ironic. God made us to procreate, he commanded it. So if you were the last 2 people on earth, the chemistry, the biology and the faith would dictate that you would follow God’s command… or else the Human creation would die. It started with 2 people of opposite sex it would not make sense for it to end that way.🤷
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I seriously doubt this is the case. How exactly are we defining attraction here? Because there are men in this world who simply disgust me, and while I may feel some kind of love for them on account of their humanity, I am definitely not attracted to them. 🤷
 
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