Can a Mass Have more "teaching?

[Jim_Dandy]

Those who give up the Eucharist for a sermon and a song do not understand that there is a miracle at every Mass. I agree that they wouldn’t be satisfied if Jesus Himself spoke, because Jesus Himself comes down upon the altar. And they aren’t getting anything out of it? How about God Himself coming to us, we renew our covenant with Him, and He nourishes us with His Own Divine Life – food for the journey to heaven. Yeah, that’s boring, for sure. Many leave out of ignorance for the wilderness of Protestantism and a misinterpreted Bible that came to us through the Agency of the Catholic Church. Others because they don’t like the moral teaching of the Church (divorce & remarriage, contraception, etc.).

In parishes which have several thousand members, Masses have to be scheduled to accommodate. The Church and parking lot have to clear between Masses. What’s needed are pithy homilies, not longer ones. Some priests are more gifted speakers than others. What matters is the Sacrifice.. Week-day Masses don’t require a homily. There usually is one, but it’s no great loss if there isn’t. It’s the encounter with Christ at Calvary that counts.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Geaux_LSU]

I am the only Catholic in my family, as my brothers and parents are non-denominational. Even though I attend Mass faithfully, I also accompany them to their church on Sunday mornings, and as a child of “both worlds” I can relate to what the OP was hinting at.

For example, the homilies given at my church very rarely include practical information on how to live a Christian life. They’re mostly “theology lectures,” and almost never deviate from the basic premise of “the Church believes in (transubstantiation, immaculate conception, purgatory, etc.) and if you don’t believe in the doctrines of the Church, you’re a cafeteria Catholic.” OK, we get the point, but what about walking in holiness, how to better demonstrate God’s love to our family, etc.? When these kind of homilies are given, and they are very rare, I have to pay extra attention because they are brief.

At the non-denominational church, the sermons there are very applicable. I actually learn how to apply God’s word to my life, and not just theological facts. This is in no way knocking the Church, I just want show the contrast as I attend both services. The only drawback that church has, and it’s a big one, is that it’s not The Church . They don’t have the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist there, and that’s kind of a big deal .

So, I sympathize with the OP. I wish my church had more homilies on everyday Christian living, and that these homilies were longer. I don’t believe this desire “takes away” from the sacrifice of the Mass, as if the homily and Communion are pitted against each another. They go together, and there is nothing wrong with desiring to hear the Word of the Lord a little longer.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

From what I have seen, I would say, the highlight, so to speak or the Apex of the mass is the consecration and then receiving communion.

The highlight and most important part of Mass is the Most Holy Sacrifice. The congregation doesn’t even need to receive communion at Mass. My Missal has a rubric for “if the faithful will be receiving communion.”

Also why can’t we have a good homily AND a worshipful mass?

Thanks.

We do. Well, at least I do at the EF Mass I attend.

 

[Phemie]

Granted,** there maybe some priests who are gifted to the point that they can go on for an hour** (and some will do so if they conjoin the celebration of the Mass with the preaching of a mission); however, there should be a balance between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

There are also other opportunities for preaching, such as the aforementioned Parish missions, Holy Hour, Communal Penance services and the Liturgy of the Hours.

And there are those who are much less gifted and can go on for an hour.

I’ll take a 10 minute homily that really says something over a 1 hour homily that repeats the same pointless thing 4 times.

 

[puzzleannie]

ThisIs there anything in the rubrics of the mass that would prevent a sermon from being an hour long, then 20 minutes for the Liturgy of the Eucharist and then mass is ended?
In short, is the length of the sermon restricted?

Peace
James

for one thing Christ did not institute a worship that revolved around a homily at the Last Supper, he intitiated the presentation in sacramental form of the one sacrifice of Calvary so that is the worship we offer.

second, liturgy is what the Church says it is, and since the earliest days that includes, as Acts and the epistles tell us, of proclaiming the Hebrew Scriptures and the accounts of the Apostles (later written down as the Gospels), singing psalms, reading letters of the Apostles including Paul, a teaching based on the Word, profession of faith, prayers for intercession for needs of the Church, offering of goods for the sustenance of the Church, the Sacrifice, thanksgiving, the doxology and Lord’s prayer, reception of communion and dismissal. So that is what our liturgy still entails. The sermon or homily is only one part of the exposition of the Word.

The other limiting factor is the time of the next Mass and size of the parking lot.

 

[YoungTradCath]

The center of a mass is not the homily, but the Canon of Mass and reception of Communion for those disposed to do so. Protestant worship, with few exceptions, revolves around a protracted sermon, usually with lots of Bible consultation and a sprinkling of music.

Doesn’t it just make sense that the most sacred part of mass take the longest?

 

[FAB]

Is there anything in the rubrics of the mass that would prevent a sermon from being an hour long, then 20 minutes for the Liturgy of the Eucharist and then mass is ended?
In short, is the length of the sermon restricted?

Peace
James

Theres not anything in the rubics, but I don’t believe most Catholics would site that long, unless it was really a good homily. Believe me complaints would role in. In my formation we were taught to keep homilies for Sunday, between 8 and 12 min. A practice that I work to keep even though there is aften subject matter from the readings that could easily lead to a longer time.
The challenge is to emphisie, whic the guidance of the Spirit, the points of the readings that will most effectivily toauch and relate to the lives of the congregation. It is alwas a balancing act.
I think the greatest diservice to the faithful are preist and deacons who do not prepare their homilies ahead of time. Unless they are particularly talented and schooled in the scriptures, they tend to repeat themsleves, week to week and even in the same homily.

 

[Geaux_LSU]

It’s been my understanding that services wayyy back in the day (i.e.- the 2nd and 3rd Centuries) lasted for 2+ hours . I definitely wouldn’t mind sitting through a 30 minute homily, though…

If our Protestant brothers can dedicate 30 minutes to a “protracted sermon” of applying the Word of God, certainly we can, too.

 

[YoungTradCath]

It’s been my understanding that services wayyy back in the day (i.e.- the 2nd and 3rd Centuries) lasted for 2+ hours . I definitely wouldn’t mind sitting through a 30 minute homily, though…

If our Protestant brothers can dedicate 30 minutes to a “protracted sermon” of applying the Word of God, certainly we can, too.

I don’t think that’s a very good reason to have long homilies.

 

[dochawk]

In my formation we were taught to keep homilies for Sunday, between 8 and 12 min. A practice that I work to keep even though there is aften subject matter from the readings that could easily lead to a longer time.

growing up one of our priests came back from homiletics training. He said that the most important thing they taught him there was “seven minutes.”

He changed from run of the mill to good.

Not many.people,priest or otherwise, will keep someone’s attention longer than that, give or take a couple of minutes.

OTOH, our priest, who could, was a guest once at a black parish in, I think, Chicago. He was told that if he spoke for less than 25 minutes, they’d be disappointed and he wouldn’t. E asked back . . .

hawk

 

[dochawk]

It’s been my understanding that services wayyy back in the day (i.e.- the 2nd and 3rd Centuries) lasted for 2+ hours . .

This is still far from rare in some Orthodox and Eastern Catholic chruches

hawk

 

[YoungTradCath]

This is still far from rare in some Orthodox and Eastern Catholic chruches

hawk

Yeah and, if you attend a Solemn Pontifical Mass in the EF with all the trappings (procession in cappa with chanting of terce and solemn vesting, etc.), especially if a longish setting is used, then a Roman mass can easily approach or exceed two hours.

 

[Mintaka]

A Catholic homily, given as part of Mass, can be as long as the priest desires, the people will sit still for it, and the Mass schedule allows.

Back in the day, most parishes only had two or three Masses on Sunday all day. (Often there was one at the crack of dawn, one at 9 AM or so, and one perhaps as late as noon.) If you went to the second Mass, it was often a High Mass, with singing and music. Often these were Masses with very very long homilies or sermons, as well.

If you had lived back in the day, with a very long walk to church and a long walk back, and very little in the way of entertainment, you would probably have appreciated a good hour-long homily as part of Mass. And in the developing world, this is often still true. Two or three hour Masses are not uncommon. However, this would mess up the average suburban American parish’s Mass schedule.

OTOH, not every homily or sermon back in the old days was long, either. St. Wulfstan’s homilies in Old English were often not very long or very complicated. If you take out the recap in Old English of what the readings had said in Latin, you get something about the same length as what Father at my parish preaches every Sunday.

There’s no particular reason for a priest to avoid either theology or contemporary moral applications in everyday life. The great preacher saints talked about those things as well as the readings. A lot of that goes to an individual priest’s personality, training, and ideas.

But if you’re really lonesome for meaty homilies, etc., there’s a ton of Catholic sermon collections on the Internet. You can read sermon series from the Fathers of the Church, and the many great preachers and teachers down the ages. Often they’re arranged by time of year or saint’s day, or by topic.