Can a Mass like this be valid?

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dylanschrader said:
The Code of Canon Law says this regarding the consecration of the bread and wine:

If a priest consecrates only bread and not wine, the bread is still validly consecrated, that is, transubstantiation still takes place, but he has not celebrated Mass.
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Validly consecrated yes - sacreligious yes - mortal sin committed by the priest for doing so- yes.
 
Joan_M said:
As far as I am aware, consecrating only one species (the bread), the Mass will not be valid. It is necessary to consecrate woth bread and wine for validity.

The priest must know this.

Any experts out there?
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Without WINE WITH ALCOHOL IN IT, the Mass is INVALID. Even if he validly consecrates the bread and no wine the consecration of the host is “valid” yet “illicit” but the Mass is “invalid” without the consecration of the wine.

Ken
 
drafdog said:
The use of unfermented grape juice is permitted. There are alcoholic priests who never use wine, even the reduced alcohol variety. The Mass is valid with the approved substitute.Matthew
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The use of unfermented grape juice is NOT permitted. The “matter” for a valid consecration is “fermented grape juice” - wine. There are approved alternatives from what I hear that have a very low alcohol content, but no permission exists for using unfermented grape juice, which is improper matter.

Ken
 
Our pastor served a tour of duty as a military chaplain two years ago, and he always used wine during the masses he celebrated. I do not understand this. Plus, we also had a priest who was an alcoholic and in his chalice, he always used grape juice with express permission from our bishop. However, if he was concelebrating the mass, he also had a chalice with sacramental wine.
 
MusicMan said:
Sorry you all disagree with me. I maintain that the chaplains and the Military Archdiocese deserve the benefit of the doubt. So, unfortunately, it seems my participation in this particular thread comes to an end. Cheers!
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:console: so sorry you’re leaving. For all of us, it should never be a matter of if we’re disagreed with, but rather what the Truth is…we all must serve Truth. 🙂
 
There’s simply nothing more for me to say on this topic, and without having significantly more information, I would rather give this chaplain the benefit of the doubt than assess the validity of his Masses.

If someone were to contact the Military Archdiocese and call them on this article, I would be willing to have my opinion on the matter changed. Alas, I am not going to be the one to do it.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I found it while researching the “Rice” Host several years ago. I will look for the book.
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I can’t find the exact book I read it in. However there is mention of the same facts in another. ***Liturgy of The Roman Church Archdale King 1957 Pg 278
***“Wine was difficult to obtain in some northern countries, and we hear of beer or some other substitute being used for the Eucharist in Greenland and Iceland. John, bishop of Gardar in Greenland , while staying with Paul, bishop of Skalholt in Iceland, in 1203 is said to have taught him the art of making wine out of crowberries. The abuse was condemned by Pope Gregory IX in 1237.”
Now this paragraph is not as detailed as the page and a half in the other book, which actually contained parts of the Bishops letter and the Popes response.
Also the term for a Mass without wine is a “Dry Mass” (missa sicca) and is referenced several times in ***The Mass - A study of the Roman Liturgy , Adrian Fortescue 1953
***Also missa nautica used at sea, where the rolling of the ship would make a real mass very dangerous. These Masses said without the Eucharistic prayer, were not real masses, but termed devotions.
 
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