M
MockSock
Guest
I think God would put the prayers to some use even were the supposed saint unable to intercede.
Can a person be canonized when they are not saints? What would happen?
- Status
D
DisorientingSneeze
Guest
I was thinking about this too. Perhaps just as none of your prayers for a person in purgatory are wasted if they are not infact there, none of your intercessory prayers are either.
The saints were such humble people. I bet they’d jump at the chance to “answer that phonecall” and get no credit.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
Prayer is never wasted.
D
dochawk
Guest
No; the logic here is wrong.
“Papal Infallibility” is not an individual action of the pope. Rather, it is the infallibility of the church and the expression thereof. The pope does not act infallibly every time he speaks about faith and morals; there are very specific requirements.
hawk
T
tweedlealice
Guest
We, in our fallibility, in theory can be wrong on most things.
Satan can dupe many a person. Padre Pio, would sprinkle Holy Water on apparitions to ensure they were Godly, not Satan’s copy cats. A demonic presentation cannot say the name of Jesus. They cannot receive Holy Communion. Their evil would come through. Saints still had worldly imperfections. Sins! They still had to have a Confessor.
I feel it very improbable for an evil “Saint”to get through the query.
If it did—— God would not be pleased. They are from hell and to hell they would be returned. If they did any good during their parody life to fake it. Good would stay out of Gods mercy.
But, it’s s moot point. It can’t happen.
THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE.
Satan can dupe many a person. Padre Pio, would sprinkle Holy Water on apparitions to ensure they were Godly, not Satan’s copy cats. A demonic presentation cannot say the name of Jesus. They cannot receive Holy Communion. Their evil would come through. Saints still had worldly imperfections. Sins! They still had to have a Confessor.
I feel it very improbable for an evil “Saint”to get through the query.
If it did—— God would not be pleased. They are from hell and to hell they would be returned. If they did any good during their parody life to fake it. Good would stay out of Gods mercy.
But, it’s s moot point. It can’t happen.
THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE.
L
LilyM
Guest
Well a canonisation is of far more gravitas than your standard Papal pronouncement - it is intended, after all, to be authoritative and binding on all the faithful everywhere for all time, and for all the Bishops to be on board with it as well.LilyM:
No; the logic here is wrong.
“Papal Infallibility” is not an individual action of the pope. Rather, it is the infallibility of the church and the expression thereof. The pope does not act infallibly every time he speaks about faith and morals; there are very specific requirements.
hawk
Deacon Jeff above has noted that there is majority support among theologians for the idea that canonisations are infallible. No doubt they have suitably weighty and considered reasons for their opinion. I don’t pretend to be a theologian or know all the ins and outs of why, but I was well aware that this was the majority view.
Last edited:
D
dochawk
Guest
Nonetheless, it does not come close to meeting the requirements for the dogma of infallibility.
If it is infallible, it’s not the basic doctrine, though, but another manifestation of the infallibility of the church.
hawk
M
MockSock
Guest
Very nice post and I’m sure you’re right that it could never really happen. I’ve learned a lot from this thread.
One thing I notice you say
“And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth?” (Mark 1:23-24)
“But the wicked spirit, answering, said to them: Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” (Acts 19:15)
One thing I notice you say
In the scriptures they do.
“And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth?” (Mark 1:23-24)
“But the wicked spirit, answering, said to them: Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” (Acts 19:15)
I
Irishmom2
Guest
Best comment I have read all day! 
O
otrrl
Guest
canonization does not push anybody into heaven and I don’t think “the honors of the altar” as canonization confers adds in any way to the glory that God bestows on those who go to the Lord. I think it is expensive to put somebody through process of discernment.
It used to take hundreds of years for canonization to take place. We’ve seen some very rapid canonizations take place in the last 40 years. St John paul II canonized over 500 people in his 25+ years in the papacy. That should not raise our expectations for humans to make such a determination.
Bluntly, I think the church is trying to make it a more level playing field that individuals from more countries, not just the European countries, are declared saints. I think this is to get people excited around the world. I might be mistaken, but it seems that there’s mostly just priests and nuns who get canonized. Some have expressed that the British writer G.K.Chesterton should be considered for the honor.
I think it puts you on a faster track if you’ve written some books, something that the postulators can sink their teeth into. I wouldn’t stand a chance for formal canonization based on my school term papers and my emails and blog posts.
Protestant mock Catholics for the canonization process, because the new testament refers to living people as saints. Scripture repeatedly says that all have sinned so no saint is without some fault. Catholics accept, though, that Jesus Christ and his mother Mary were without sin.
It used to take hundreds of years for canonization to take place. We’ve seen some very rapid canonizations take place in the last 40 years. St John paul II canonized over 500 people in his 25+ years in the papacy. That should not raise our expectations for humans to make such a determination.
Bluntly, I think the church is trying to make it a more level playing field that individuals from more countries, not just the European countries, are declared saints. I think this is to get people excited around the world. I might be mistaken, but it seems that there’s mostly just priests and nuns who get canonized. Some have expressed that the British writer G.K.Chesterton should be considered for the honor.
I think it puts you on a faster track if you’ve written some books, something that the postulators can sink their teeth into. I wouldn’t stand a chance for formal canonization based on my school term papers and my emails and blog posts.
Protestant mock Catholics for the canonization process, because the new testament refers to living people as saints. Scripture repeatedly says that all have sinned so no saint is without some fault. Catholics accept, though, that Jesus Christ and his mother Mary were without sin.
Last edited:
- Status