Can a person practice well enough the Cardinal Virtues without faith in God and love for God and neighbor?

[Bartolome_Casas]

If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?

If yes, then why didn’t Jesus simply preach and teach virtue (as did many of the Greek philosophers of His time)? He did that to some extent, but more more He preached and taught Faith and Love. Jesus said: “Daughter, your FAITH has healed you.” (not “your virtue has healed you”) Jesus, in answer to what is the greatest commandment, spoke of LOVE of God and neighbor, not the practice of virtue.

I perceive a new form of de facto “ecumenism” forming in the USA around the concept of “virtue,” in which it matters not what religion you have, or even if you have any religion at all, as long as you have and practice, or claim to have and practice, the traditional virtues.

This “Sola Virtus” (analogous to “Sole Fide”) Movement seems to be a throwback to the ethos of the old Roman Empire, and not consistent with the Faith of Christ revealed to His Church. The debauchery, viciousness, heartlessness, brutality of the Roman rulers of the Roman Empire, and in latter-day reincarnations of that in the Third Reich and Fascist Italy, all seem to show that as a practical matter most men cannot be virtuous without faith in and love for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The ancient Greeks and Romans most notably did NOT have or practice any virtue even remotely similar to Christian LOVE (Caritas, Agape). Thus, slavery, war, brutality, conquest of peaceable people just for material booty, bad treatment of women, etc., was not considered a lack of virtue. Many scholars have noted how original and new to the world is the Christian virtue, concept and practice of Agape Love.

Today’s revived Virtue Movement seems to likewise lack the Christian Virtue of Agape Love of Neighbor.

 

[Rence]

If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?

If yes, then why didn’t Jesus simply preach and teach virtue (as did many of the Greek philosophers of His time)? He did that to some extent, but more more He preached and taught Faith and Love. Jesus said: “Daughter, your FAITH has healed you.” (not “your virtue has healed you”) Jesus, in answer to what is the greatest commandment, speak of LOVE of God and neighbor, not the practice of virtue.

Well, first your title asks "Can a person practice well enough the Cardinal Virtues without faith in God and love for God and neighbor? But then you ask, “If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?”.

There are many non-Catholic Christians who love God and neighbor and show it everyday. I live in an area of the country where Catholics make up only about 3% of the population. Everyone else is Baptist, Church of Christ, and other non-Catholic religions. You can have Faith and Love without being Catholic because the non-Catholic religions have an incomplete Truth to them. According to Church teaching, because they derived originally from Catholicism, they still have Truth, just not all of it. According to Church teaching, if it weren’t for the Church, members of the other non-Catholic religions couldn’t be saved because it’s through the Church that they are saved. So yes, even though non-Catholics can (and most emphatically do) certainly love God, have Faith, and love their neighbor, the Catholic Faith is still needed. Even though members of other religions feel that the Church became corrupt along the way, and thus branched off, they still get their foundation from the Church whether they realize it or not.

 

[porthos11]

If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?

If yes, then why didn’t Jesus simply preach and teach virtue (as did many of the Greek philosophers of His time)? He did that to some extent, but more more He preached and taught Faith and Love. Jesus said: “Daughter, your FAITH has healed you.” (not “your virtue has healed you”) Jesus, in answer to what is the greatest commandment, spoke of LOVE of God and neighbor, not the practice of virtue.

I perceive a new form of de facto “ecumenism” forming in the USA around the concept of “virtue,” in which it matters not what religion you have, or even if you have any religion at all, as long as you have and practice, or claim to have and practice, the traditional virtues.

This “Sola Virtus” (analogous to “Sole Fide”) Movement seems to be a throwback to the ethos of the old Roman Empire, and not consistent with the Faith of Christ revealed to His Church. The debauchery, viciousness, heartlessness, brutality of the Roman rulers of the Roman Empire, and in latter-day reincarnations of that in the Third Reich and Fascist Italy, all seem to show that as a practical matter most men cannot be virtuous without faith in and love for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The ancient Greeks and Romans most notably did NOT have or practice any virtue even remotely similar to Christian LOVE (Caritas, Agape). Thus, slavery, war, brutality, conquest of peaceable people just for material booty, bad treatment of women, etc., was not considered a lack of virtue. Many scholars have noted how original and new to the world is the Christian virtue, concept and practice of Agape Love.

Today’s revived Virtue Movement seems to likewise lack the Christian Virtue of Agape Love of Neighbor.

In answer to the subject question, I would say yes, it is possible. However, the cardinal virtues by themselves do not lead to salvation. We know that only one virtue will save, and that is charity.

 

[hazcompat]

NO!

peace

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?

If yes, then why didn’t Jesus simply preach and teach virtue (as did many of the Greek philosophers of His time)? He did that to some extent, but more more He preached and taught Faith and Love. Jesus said: “Daughter, your FAITH has healed you.” (not “your virtue has healed you”) Jesus, in answer to what is the greatest commandment, spoke of LOVE of God and neighbor, not the practice of virtue.

I perceive a new form of de facto “ecumenism” forming in the USA around the concept of “virtue,” in which it matters not what religion you have, or even if you have any religion at all, as long as you have and practice, or claim to have and practice, the traditional virtues.

This “Sola Virtus” (analogous to “Sole Fide”) Movement seems to be a throwback to the ethos of the old Roman Empire, and not consistent with the Faith of Christ revealed to His Church. The debauchery, viciousness, heartlessness, brutality of the Roman rulers of the Roman Empire, and in latter-day reincarnations of that in the Third Reich and Fascist Italy, all seem to show that as a practical matter most men cannot be virtuous without faith in and love for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The ancient Greeks and Romans most notably did NOT have or practice any virtue even remotely similar to Christian LOVE (Caritas, Agape). Thus, slavery, war, brutality, conquest of peaceable people just for material booty, bad treatment of women, etc., was not considered a lack of virtue. Many scholars have noted how original and new to the world is the Christian virtue, concept and practice of Agape Love.

Today’s revived Virtue Movement seems to likewise lack the Christian Virtue of Agape Love of Neighbor.

Even the worst of monsters have some qualities. Hitler loved dogs and children.
Let us not judge past men.
Maybe 2000 years from now, people will judge the WW I and the WW II as we judge romans. There was no savagery in the entire history of humanity worst then WW II.
Let God judge them.

 

[Julia_Mae]

If yes, then what need is there of the Catholic Faith?

But the answer is “no.” None are good, not one, but God alone. We have no virtues and cannot practice them with any consistent or long-term success without the Holy Spirit, without “God in us.” All people have a soul, we all have this “spark” of the Holy Spirit, the grace that allows us to find God. But in the end, we need to be actively in relationship with God, or we will fail.

The most complete relationship with God comes through reception of the Eucharist. And we know where that is.

Nice to hear virtue is trending, though.

 

[fred_conty]

There are the NATURAL virtues we can acquire on our own. If someone observes
the dishonesty and lies of other people, he may acquire a distaste for being that way.
So they make it a practise to be honest. And after repeating honest acts,
it becomes easier for them to be honest than dishonest. This is a natural
virtue which can be acquired with proper motive. It’s similiar to playing tennis.
Practise makes perfect.

There are the DIVINE(supernatural) virtues that are infused at Baptism, faith, hope,
charity. They are inclinations and power to make actions supernaturally good and
pertain to God only. That is, to believe in God, to hope in God and it is God
that we love. But since this is not acquired by repeated acts, it is not
necessarily easy for us to practice these divine virtues. These virtues are
increased only by God. We grow in these as we grow in grace. And since
sometimes we cannot acquire them by repeated actions, someone may have
a difficult time with them thruout their life and struggle. The struggle
will be in proportion as God sees our strength. So it is impossible for
a natural person to acquire divine virtues without God’s intervention even tho
the natural virtues look much like the supernatural virtues.

Just a thought or two.