Can a priest and woman be good friends?

[SecretGarden]

I think yes good friends but what you do, needs to be considered. For example going out for coffee at a Duncan Donuts or a Tim Horton’s for the Canadian folk: sure. The two eating a meal at a restaurent that some locals might consider romantic: no. If the two of you are at the restaurent with a group and he wears his collar: yes. The woman hanging out at wherever he lives after office hours when no one else is around: no. He at her place unless there is an emergency: no. I say this because it doesn’t matter where one lives, small village, large city, it always amazes me in how small the world is. Priests are known by many people and it just takes one busy body to create trouble.

Even movies, I would be careful when selecting a time and a film. For example: no chick flicks or romantic movies nor late night shows. I can see talking on the phone or on skpye ok. Every day unless it was a church related issue: no. I have a friend who is a seminarian. We meet occasionally for lunch as part of a group or we will speak on the phone. Even with my pastor, (we are around the same age,) unless it was a very public place, I would never go to lunch unless someone from my church was present. Call me old fashion but I believe it’s important to avoid giving anyone any potential to gossip. When you are out, and you run into friends: it is always important to introduce him using his title. That way, it prevents any potential trouble or people from arriving to false conclusions.

 

[triumphguy]

When I was in formation with the Franciscans we weren’t allowed any “particular” friendships - i.e. friendships which seemed to exclude others.

We had to be open to all the community and all people.

Intimate friendships with people outside of the community were not encouraged at all.

I don’t believe priests should have close friendships with women outside of their families, or spend time one on one with them at all.

If they want to see a movie they should go with a group or with another priest.

 

[thequeen]

Women in my parish are always going out to lunch with our priests and no one thinks twice about it. Last time I went out with one of my priest friends we ran into another priests having lunch with a woman friend and we ran into some of our parishioners. No one thought anything out of the ordinary.

I am not going to go sit in a confessional just to have a talk with a priest friend when I am not confessing. Sometimes we have deep theological discussions or talk about things that are going on in our lives. Sometimes we talk about our ministry or about decisions we have to make. We don’t want to include others in these discussions and it is always nice to discuss them over a nice lunch. Besides if something improper was going on no one would meet in a public place where anyone and everyone in town could see them.

Hey Joannm you are doing nothing wrong in fact i even have a very dear priest friend who is like a father to me that I have lunch or dinner with every now and then good point about the confessional why waste the priest’s time in the confessional if you are not confessing you keep having those theological discussions with your priest friend and you will be in my prayers.

 

[kmuestwin]

My priest’s best friend is a widow that he has known for years. They eat together, sometimes travel to different parts of the diocese together and are there for each other.

The priest is the pastor at my college parish and the woman works in the office as a secretary. I consider them both as close to me as family and I know that they both would do anything for me if I needed them.

Could a close relationship between a priest and a woman cause scandal? Sure.

I think if a woman is a devout Catholic, there should be no problem with “temptation.”

It is important for a priest to have friends. The last thing a priest should feel is isolated. I know that scandal is to be avoided but I think that the dynamic you mentioned as a married parishoner, this relationship is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Women in my parish are always going out to lunch with our priests and no one thinks twice about it. Last time I went out with one of my priest friends we ran into another priests having lunch with a woman friend and we ran into some of our parishioners. No one thought anything out of the ordinary.

I am not going to go sit in a confessional just to have a talk with a priest friend when I am not confessing. Sometimes we have deep theological discussions or talk about things that are going on in our lives. Sometimes we talk about our ministry or about decisions we have to make. We don’t want to include others in these discussions and it is always nice to discuss them over a nice lunch. Besides if something improper was going on no one would meet in a public place where anyone and everyone in town could see them.

What you described if professionalism, if one can speak this way of a priest.
Not friendship. At least, not intimate friendship.
Yes, this way, we could say that the women were good friends of the priests but one must be careful with the use of the word friend.
It is not by chance that this word is girl-friend.

 

[InLight247]

I knew a priest like that once. He was very charming and everyone loved him. He had a good word for everyone. He was also good looking. However, as time went on, he became very friendly with a married woman. Eventually, the worst happened. She left her husband and he the priesthood. They are now ‘married’ and the lesson is still not learned. When a priest is very social and friendly, lines can be crossed. It is so much better to avoid near occasions of sin by keeping a professional distance. A priest can be very available for pastoral duties without being too friendly.

It is the same as any other profession with regard to ‘professional distance’. Teachers and doctors know this. Why would a priest not?

Very well said.
“Boundary” and “prudence” is the key. There must be some question and uncertainty in the OP’s mind, otherwise, the question of this thread won’t be asked.

If there is any question raised in mind, there is something, at least remotely, questionable in the relationship. And one should follow the alert of her intuition, stop frequent one on one contact. Protect priest, and protect marriage. Better be safe than sorry. It is only wise to be careful and refrain oneself from any possible temptation.

 

[TrueLight]

Can a priest and woman be good friends? Would the Diocese or church frown on this friendship, ie having lunch together, talking about books, movies, etc? If woman is happily married, hubby knows about all meetings, and priest is happy and enjoying his vocation but just enjoys spending time with the woman as friends and there’s no sexual tension, or should this relationship be avoided? Just wondering what your thoughts are…

If you’re an attractive woman, people are going to wag their tongues regardless.

 

[Joannm]

Very well said.
“Boundary” and “prudence” is the key. There must be some question and uncertainty in the OP’s mind, otherwise, the question of this thread won’t be asked.

If there is any question raised in mind, there is something, at least remotely, questionable in the relationship. And one should follow the alert of her intuition, stop frequent one on one contact. Protect priest, and protect marriage. Better be safe than sorry. It is only wise to be careful and refrain oneself from any possible temptation.

I know of a similar situation, but the priest and the woman were never seen together except in the parish office when she went to him for counseling. No one even knew that they saw each other outside. So it was a complete surprise to everyone. No one knew they were even friends. Like I said earlier, if a priest is involved with a woman he is going to hide it and not show up with her for dinner or a movie.

 

[teresadeavila]

If you’re an attractive woman, people are going to wag their tongues regardless.

Beauty is the eye of the beholder though. Of course, my hubby finds me attractive but not sure others do. We are around the same age, avoid romantic restaurants, we exchange books and music, and he is almost always wearing his civvies. I’m glad to see that there are other women who are in the same boat - we also talk business of the church in general because of my job/work with the church. I also have lunches with other men, professional business lunches mixed with social, alone - hubby knows them, and when I go every time b/c I tell him all about it. These men are single, and they often needs a woman’s perspective/opinion on things, ie women they may be dating or interested in.

But I will exercise extreme caution with priests - I just don’t want any of them to be subject of scandal or myself!! Often, it’s the priest’s idea to get lunch, they often dine alone or don’t have many offers for homecooked meals and enjoy being in another’s company sometimes. They’re human and need socialization beyond their church, I’d imagine.

 

[BenedictFTW]

When I was in formation with the Franciscans we weren’t allowed any “particular” friendships - i.e. friendships which seemed to exclude others.

We had to be open to all the community and all people.

Intimate friendships with people outside of the community were not encouraged at all.

I don’t believe priests should have close friendships with women outside of their families, or spend time one on one with them at all.

If they want to see a movie they should go with a group or with another priest.

St Teresa of Avila warns against particular friendships between nuns. Religious lives are for God - at all times. Priests, especially. We can be kind and sociable to our priests without crossing these boundaries.

 

[InLight247]

But I will exercise extreme caution with priests - I just don’t want any of them to be subject of scandal or myself!!

It will be good to put on some thoughts about “how” to exercise extreme caution. It is always helpful to think about the concrete steps.

Often, it’s the priest’s idea to get lunch, they often dine alone or don’t have many offers for homecooked meals and enjoy being in another’s company sometimes. They’re human and need socialization beyond their church, I’d imagine.

As you mentioned the “human need”, that is exact the area needs to be handled with extra care. Do not underestimate the evil one’s trick and plan. Priests are the devil’s first target to attack. The devil is very subtle and skillful, always make things innocent to start with and go from there. Therefore, it is the laity’s responsibility to protect the vocation and avoid any slightest possibility of occasion of temptation.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Only if she is at least twenty-five years older than he is. It is entirely inappropriate for a woman and a priest to be dating, which is what lunches and movies are. This is entering freely into temptation as well as giving scandal. If either finds they are “connecting” and long for one another’s company, they should immediately break off any contact that is not in the presence of a third party and limit conversation to courtesies and parish business.

Um, does this mean two guys who are good friends, occasionally catching dinner an a movie are in a gay relationship since they are “dating”?

Recently when my priest found out I was living alone he volunteered to come down and help me ‘warm the house up’. I still don’t know quite how to handle the suggestion. He’s from a different country with a different culture so I’m really hoping this is a cultural misunderstanding but good grief… I think it’s inappropriate for a priest to offer to come to a woman’s home when she’s alone UNLESS in the case of an emergency.

It sounds like a lot was lost in translation, you should ask him to explain further.

Hubby has been with us at times but can’t make it to all our lunches, priest has been to our home as well, knows the whole family including my mom and in-laws. He’s like family - we’ve joked about the fact that we’ve “adopted” him. Priest is from overseas so he has no family here. It’s in our culture to welcome people we really click with and treat them as family.

So he’s a family friend? Perhaps you should introduce him to the rest of the community and helping him make other friends.

I think a priest and a married woman can be friends… “good” is probably the problem here. For me, it’s a non-issue because I am very happily married and completely solid in the sacramental commitment of my marriage, it’s my vocation. Likewise, is the priest’s marriage to his bride, the church. I wouldn’t allow anyone to threaten my vocation and I wouldn’t threaten anyone else’s. I’m kind of old school in that I still hold priests to a higher standard generally and personally have a great reverence for them. Crossing any boundry would be a horrible sin I think. They are here to serve, but they don’t belong to us.

I think priests need all the good friends they can get, or at least a good handful of people they can trust and count on.

For the former if you could please cite a Church document I’d be grateful, for the latter people really need to understand that priests are people too.

Lunch maybe once a month - and we live in a city around 1 million population. He has many friends, both male & female, who he spends time with at dinner parties, other lunches, movies, etc. He’s just a very social person.

Jacksonville is a nice city,

St Teresa of Avila warns against particular friendships between nuns. Religious lives are for God - at all times. Priests, especially. We can be kind and sociable to our priests without crossing these boundaries.

parish priest≠monastic community

Have you ever read Aelred of Rievaulx’s De spiritali amicitia?

Ultimately an equal relationship with everyone becomes a relationship with no one.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Little personal life talk, a few stories from our past in high school, family relationships, but not much else - nothing that belongs to the confessor or anything intimate. He also gives me spiritual advice, and I talk about how working parents balance work, life, our faith, etc.

I just want to make sure I’m not crossing any boundaries here.

Based on my experience having close frinds who are priests, I would say make the priest a family friend. I do believe a man and a woman can be non-sexual friends, but I also think it is best --for your marriage, for his vocation, and to ward of scandal --if you include your husband in these conversations.

Certainly priests need friends, but as another poster said, it is important that the priest not be tempted to share “work” issues with you. Also, it is very important not to give the impression of undue favoritism, so occasionally I’d expand the circle beyond you and hubby. Maybe invite a few other young marrieds (or young not-marrieds) to the movies as well.

 

[barb_finnegan]

I say ‘yes, it is possible’, because I’ve known it myself.

My best, best friend is a priest in England, who was ordained by Blessed John Paul II thirty years ago the end of this month. I met him ‘by accident’ on October 13, 1988 in Fatima, Portugal. i was in the house of the Vice-Postulator for the Fatima visionaries, and I struck up a conversation with him while he was there with his pilgrim group. I was so excited about meeting him (he was, and is, very friendly) that I forgot to get his address; luckily, an elderly Brit whom I met on my previous three visits to Fatima got it for me. It happened that this priest and his group were at a hotel around the corner from where I was staying!

We’ve been corresponding (and occasionally calling) ever since. I’ve seen him three times: 1989 (saw him in London when he was leading another pilgrim group-he said Mass in the lower chapel of Westminster Cathedral, and I attended that Mass as well), 1997 and 1999 (both times in his current parish). I think of him as ‘the brother I could have had’ (same age as my older sister and the brother who was born with her, but unfortunately died at birth). I can talk or write to him on almost anything!

I’ve also had other priest-friends. One was a Franciscan whom I met through a mutual lady-friend. When he and I met for spiritual direction, we hit it off immediately. He was a funny guy from New Jersey (his accent cracked me up), and had also been in Assisi as a summer tour guide early in his priesthood. I had been to Assisi, too, so we had another thing in common! I got to go to his Silver Jubilee in 1990; unfortunately, he was already sick with cancer, and died six months later. I was devastated-I wept when I read his obit in my local paper, because he was at the [then] Franciscan parish when we met in 1981. I was able to go to his wake and funeral, and visited his grave in New Jersey several times in the 1990s, when I visited the Blue Army Shrine nearby.

Another priest I was friends with was from Quebec, Canada. I met him in 1991, literally in the front yard of St. Therese’s childhood home, ‘Les Buissonets’ in Lisieux! We wrote for a time, and I saw him again in the south of France after his ordination (I didn’t even know in 1991 that he was a seminarian until he sent me a photo of himself at the time of his diaconal ordination!) in 1993. He lived in a small village near the mountains near Lourdes, and so I got to make day-trips from the village to Lourdes by train. The last time I saw him was in 1994 when I visited him in Quebec. I stayed with some friends of his on the 'Ile ‘dOrleans’ near Quebec City, which is where he was born. The last time I heard from him was when he sent me a postcard from Quebec City, saying that he was returning home to Canada from France due to ill-health. But I still think of him as another ‘spiritual brother’, and mention him by name with my English priest-friend in my daily Rosary and at the ‘commemoration of the living’ at my Sunday TLM.

Yes, it is possible that a priest and a woman can be friends. All the priests I’ve ever known have respected me-I have never felt uncomfortable around them.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Barb those are great stories! But you are not describing the same thing the OP was. She talked about seeing the priest regularly at lunch or the movies. Visits when he is not acting in the role of or dressed as a priest.

I absolutely do think that men and women can have platonic friendships, but I think this situation or a young married woman and a priest is too likely to cause scandal and confusion unless they take these outings with one or two other people – her husband, another family member or friend.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i am a 60 year old divorced woman and it even feels scandalous to me when i make an appointment to go into see the priest for counseling. i have done it a couple of times and i get stares from the ladies in the office and once when i told someone i had a meeting with the Father, a woman commented - “you two have fun!”. the counseling session was serious, not a light hearted moment. it makes me angry that when you need to speak to a priest about personal things going on in your life - not a confession - that you are made to feel so uneasy or that you are a scarlet woman who will be tempting the priest.
i would love to have a platonic or spiritual friendship with a priest. i didn’t grow up with any brothers, lost my adoptive father when i was 30 and never knew my biological father.
i envy these posters who say they have friendships with priests and lunches, etc.
that is why i left church for many years. if you don’t fit into a certain mold, that is if you are attractive or divorced you are seen as trouble or someone that might lead to temptation.
if you are frumpy or married or perhaps a big donor to the church, then you can get the help you need and not pose a threat.

 

[triumphguy]

this is Not in response to the previous poster!

Just some observations:

Just 'cos someone has the vocation to the priesthood doesn’t make them a naturally good friend or confident!

And they can be a good pastor without being a good counselor.

And they can be a wonderful confessor without being a good conversationalist.

And they can be great at being a priest without being good at friendship.

And they can lead a fantastic liturgy and be a fantastic homilist without being a good lunch “date”

If people need friendship don’t count on the priest to provide it!

 

[EvelynEVF]

St Teresa of Avila warns against particular friendships between nuns. Religious lives are for God - at all times. Priests, especially. We can be kind and sociable to our priests without crossing these boundaries.

Yes, but do be mindful of the distinction between religious and secular. Diocesan priests are not “Religious” and do not have the community of their order. They do not have the same commitments or lifestyle.

 

[PJM]

=teresadeavila;9249515]Can a priest and woman be good friends? Would the Diocese or church frown on this friendship, ie having lunch together, talking about books, movies, etc? If woman is happily married, hubby knows about all meetings, and priest is happy and enjoying his vocation but just enjoys spending time with the woman as friends and there’s no sexual tension, or should this relationship be avoided? Just wondering what your thoughts are…

SO LONG as “the NEAR OCSASSION OF SIN” is avoided; and the meeting are VERY PUBLIC, no probem.

God Bless,

Pat

 

[InspiritCarol]

If you’re an attractive woman, people are going to wag their tongues regardless.

If you are mangey, fat and old; people are still going to wag their tongues.

(oops - did that sound bitter?)