Can a Priest refuse hearing confession?

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I almost always go to priests before mass. Fifteen min. or so before. I cannot go during the scheduled Sat. time as a am legally blind and so I always need a ride to go to Church.

So much difficulty would be eliminated if Confessions were always offered before Mass.

The priests I know are always very tired by the time Sunday is over. I can’t imagine expecting them to add something more to their schedules.

If you can’t wait or aren’t available at the normal confession time, it only takes a phone call to ask if a priest is available. If there’s something else scheduled he’ll tell you when he’ll be free. That seems so much easier than expecting him to drop everything because now is a convenient time for you.

 

[JReducation]

I think that Father David’s response includes a key phrase.

A reasonable time means just that. It does not mean that the priest is available to hear confessions 24/7 but that the penitent must request the sacrament at a time that is reasonable under the circumstances.

We all understand that the Sacrament of Holy Orders leaves an imprint upon the soul of the ordained to act in “Persona Christi”. But that does not make the priest a sacrament machine or an other worldly person.

Like the rest of us, priests have health concerns, relationships, personal needs. spiritual needs and above all, limitations. There is only so much that a person can squeeze into a 24-hour day.

As I posted on another thread, our expectations of priests have added to the shortage.

Sometime during this past year I was sharing with a Carmelite Friar who told me that they have been helping bishops by taking over parishes since they came to the Americas. As the numbers dwindled, many of the friars ended up living alone. With the demands of parish life, the friars often sacrificed their community life and other obligations that are proper to Carmelite life. They did this for our benefit, the laity. They could have left the parishes. Religous Orders have no obligation to run parishes for the diocese.

Now, the Church is telling religious that they must regroup and that they must recover their community life and the charism of their roots. When you tell a priest who has had his own car, comes and goes on his own schedule without being accountable to a community, has the time to be available to the parishioners, because the community is put on the back burner and you ask him to return to a life in a priory, friary or monastery, it comes as a culture shock after many years of this way of living. Some of these priests have ended up leaving their religious communities and others return to their communities and are miserable.

This is not a Carmelite phenomenon. This examplel is very real for many religious communities where Brotherhood is at the core of their identity and life.

When we, the laity, begin to impose our needs on priests as if they had no one else to attend to but us, we contribute to the problem. At some point we have to be reasonable.

If you need to go to confession, go when the priest is available and if the priest is not available, move along. There will be another day or another priest.

In one Franciscan community that I know, the demands of the laity got so bad tha the Superior had to step in and order the pastor to schedule parish functions around the schedule of the friary and that the friary was not going to accommodate to the parish. It was destroying the fraternity when priests could not celebrate the Liturgy of the Hours with their Brothers because they are delayed to hear a confession that is not an emergency just as the preist is about to leave the office for the friary to pray with his Brothers. But some people diddn’t undestand this as a reasonable response from the priest when he said something like, “Can you cme back . . . because I have to go to pray the Divine Office at the friary.”

I mean, common’ folks. There is a real need and there is reasonable timing. We need to give a little too.

Those are just my two cents.

Happy New Year!

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

@ gogirl: Please, please, please call a doctor or a suicide hotline as well as a priest. I’ve wrestled with suicidal thoughts most of my adult life, and it’s something that I’ve found from personal experience, is best handled with a physician’s or a good psychologist’s help.

Re: priests refusing confession – I’ve been troubled about my place in the Church for over a year, and at one point, I admitted in confession that I had one foot out the door already. The priest in this case, who isn’t the most welcoming sort to begin with, refused to give me absolution. I think only the grace of God (and my Irish stubbornness, which He gave me in buckets) kept me from giving him the sharp side of my tongue and getting up to leave with no intention of coming back. I practically had to beg him to give me absolution. Didn’t really help my trust in the Church much, and I felt like I was living some kind of revised version of the Prodigal Son where the older brother met said Prodigal Son at the dor, instead of their father; until a priest from the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter whom I met on an Ignatian retreat acted like the shepherd with the Lost Sheep…

 

[Prime]

Prime,
The answer to your question is actually the opposite of what you’ve asked. Allow me to explain: A priest has an obligation to hear confessions whenever the person is properly disposed, and at a reasonable time. There is nothing that says when a priest doesn’t hear confessions, or is excused from hearing them.

Properly disposed means that a person is in the proper state-of-mind to make a confession. Someone who stumbles into the confessional after leaving a bar for example is not in the right state-of-mind (happens more often than people might realize). Someone who doesn’t realy want to make a confession, but is looking for a blessing, or counseling, or some other reason to speak with the priest isn’t intending to confess, and while the priest might have the obligation to speak with that person, the obligation to actually hear the confession isn’t there.

The person in question went to the confessional before start of the Mass for the purpose of having confession as preparation to receive communion. Therefore the person tooks pains to be prepared to confess.

A reasonable time means just that. It does not mean that the priest is available to hear confessions 24/7 but that the penitent must request the sacrament at a time that is reasonable under the circumstances. A person who is dying at 3 AM and wants to confess is a “reasonable time.” A healthy person who works late and knocks on the rectory door at 1 AM is not approaching at a “reasonable time.” Reasonable time also means that penitents have to take into account the priest’s other responsibilities like administering the other Sacraments, saying Mass, meeting with parishioners, business meetings, and all the other times that a priest might simply be legitimately “busy.” If a priest has a scheduled meeting with someone else, it’s not always possible to delay that meeting to hear someone’s confession–the other person is likewise entitled to that “block” of the priest’s time.
.

The penitent purposely went to the confessional before the start of Mass as it is known to be the time for confession. And no, the Mass was not celebrated at 1AM. The priest in question is the second priest who is usually the one to hear confession while the first one is saying Mass.

Some people don’t necessarily realize that priests don’t have the luxury of sitting around all day waiting for someone to drop-by to go to confession–50 years ago in the US that might have been the case, and some rectories were even designed with this idea in mind. I once lived in a rectory that had a doorbell installed in the confessional–a penitent would push the button, the bell in the rectory would ring and the priest would walk next door to the church to hear confession. Those times are over, but sometimes the mentality lingers that a priest is simply sitting there waiting for someone to confess.

Having said all that though, let me repeat that if the person is properly disposed, and the hour is reasonable, the priest has on obligation to hear the confession.

The scenario described is the last 15 minutes before start of Mass on a Sunday.

 

[thistle]

Being that it’s not a life and death emergency and he has an incoming appointment, then yes, the priest can decline to hear the confession. He’s not exactly free. He has a prior appointment coming in. The person who is walking in is not dying. It sounds like this is not the scheduled time for confessions. Therefore, it falls upon the lay person to call ahead to make an appointment or take his chances in the hope that a priest is available.

Most priests would hear the confession, if their appointment has not yet arrived. But they do not have to do so outside or regularlu scheduled times for confession, unless it’s an emergency. An emergency is a person in danger of death.

Yes, the priest acted within his rights, though he could have been more tactful and excused himself and suggested that you schedule an appointment for confession.

JR

I disagree. It is a matter of life and death for the man walking in in a state of mortal sin. Confession normally takes a few minutes only so I would say the repentent sinner must take priority over the visitor.

 

[gogirl1993jam]

Can a priest refuse to counsle someone who is having suicidal thoughts? This is just a general questions, it is not suppose to send any red flags to anyone. I would just like to know the answer to this question, Thanks, and may god bless you in this wounderful new year of 2009.

 

[puzzleannie]

I
So much difficulty would be eliminated if Confessions were always offered before Mass.

of course why should the one priest, who has already sat in the confessional for an hour before Saturday evening Mass waiting for penitents who never come, have the chance to catch his breath, answer a call of nature, or spend time in spiritual preparation for the next of his 5 Masses on Sunday, even if there were more than 15 minutes between Masses. Why should he get a break? never mind that he has been available to parishioners in need at a moments notice all week, night and day, and is now engaged in the primary task of his ministry, Sunday liturgy, that is no reason not to go back to the confessional for the 5 minutes remaining before the next Mass.

 

[Prime]

I disagree. It is a matter of life and death for the man walking in in a state of mortal sin. Confession normally takes a few minutes only so I would say the repentent sinner must take priority over the visitor.

I think your comment is in line with Jesus’ teachings about:
‘there is greater rejoicing in heaven for one repentant sinner than 100 just men’. And the other one:
“will not the shepherd leave the 99 sheep just to bring back the one lost sheep?”

 

[Prime]

Can a priest refuse to counsle someone who is having suicidal thoughts? This is just a general questions, it is not suppose to send any red flags to anyone. I would just like to know the answer to this question, Thanks, and may god bless you in this wounderful new year of 2009.

No priest in his right frame of mind will refuse, I think.

 

[gogirl1993jam]

Thanks for your answer, I mean I said that it should not bring any red flags for anyone because I am not having those thoughts anymore, but when I was having those thoughts I went and asked the priest if I could talk with him about them and he said no. I mean it is not like he was doing anything, he was avaliable and it was at a very resonable time that I asked him to but for some reason he said no, and so that was that. I had trouble finding someone to talk with after that, because the one person that I felt that I needed to talk to at the time said no he would not talk with me for no appearent reason.

 

[FrDavid96]

The person in question went to the confessional before start of the Mass for the purpose of having confession as preparation to receive communion. Therefore the person tooks pains to be prepared to confess.

The penitent purposely went to the confessional before the start of Mass as it is known to be the time for confession. And no, the Mass was not celebrated at 1AM. The priest in question is the second priest who is usually the one to hear confession while the first one is saying Mass.

The scenario described is the last 15 minutes before start of Mass on a Sunday.

Prime,
I was providing a general answer, not specifically addressing the original scenario, since I don’t have all the details.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I disagree. It is a matter of life and death for the man walking in in a state of mortal sin. Confession normally takes a few minutes only so I would say the repentent sinner must take priority over the visitor.

Except…for all we know the “visitor” was also a repentant sinner who had the courtesy to call first for an appointment.

I seriously wonder about the sense of entitlement people have. “I want what I want right now and even if you’re busy you should drop everything to accommodate me. Yes I know you were available yesterday during the scheduled time and yes I know you have an appointment now with someone else, but why should I care about any of that? Don’t you know the world revolves around me?”

 

[Elizabeth502]

We can all be troubled spiritually (including priests!) and feel that sense of urgent remorse & need of immediate cleansing, but before we were fortunate enough to have sacraments (i.e., the OT, i.e., the gospels), people confessed passionately to God. (For starters, read the psalms; many of these are confessional – “I have done what is wrong in your sight”; “my sin is ever before me”; etc.) Jesus recounts parables where “the father” sees a penitent heart approaching and forgives that person because of the pure impulse in that heart. Ditto for his miracles (= cures + forgiveness): similarly he comments on “knowing” or “seeing” the person’s disposition, which is itself the pathway to forgiveness.

Priests must confess to each other. He may be alone in the rectory for an entire weekend or week. His usual confessor may be not available. While he has a phonebank of available clergy, he also must make appointments with them & respect their needs, such as on holiday. (It seems most every week is busy now for most overburdened parish priests.)

For the immediate sense of “emergency,” we must all make an immediate, heartfelt act of contrition as “perfect” (genuine, sincere, personal) as possible. This goes for laity & clergy. Fr. John Corapi describes this for himself in his moving conversion story. He returned home to his humble surroundings; there in the family home he came to terms with the depth of his depravity and his helplessness without God, He was desperately remorseful and felt abjectly dependent on God. He made what he called (what he knew at the time) a perfect act of contrition, centered on God, not on himself. Before he even went to confession (which he did the next day), he was flooded with the deep peace of God.

The point is that the sincere remorse is what heals our relationship with God, but to actualize completely that sincerity we must eventually (soon) complete that remorse by partaking of oral confession as soon as it is available. Subjectively speaking, it may feel like an emergency. Objectively speaking, it is not. Priests go to deathbeds all he time, where all the dying person can do is a gesture, or begin to open their mouth, or nod, before expiring – yet they have listened to the priest, been counseled to account for & repent of their sins & declare their love for God interiorly. It doesn’t mean that they were not forgiven because they could not orally confess, yet what is more an emergency than being at death’s door with possibly unconfessed mortal sin?

 

[JReducation]

I disagree. It is a matter of life and death for the man walking in in a state of mortal sin. Confession normally takes a few minutes only so I would say the repentent sinner must take priority over the visitor.

Good theology tells you that if the man walking in is in a state of mortal sin, is truly sorry for his sin, and is unable to go to confession through no fault of his own and walks out in front of a bus and dies, he will receive absolution.

Confession is no guarantee of absolution, even when the priest says the words, unless there is true contrition. Think of the many people who die on the field of battle every day without the benefit of confession. We can apply the same here.

As Father David so carefully explained, people must expect that the priest will be available for confession at a reasonable time. He is not always available, even though he is physically present.

I again share the example of my parish where our priests live a monastic life. Af a certain time the confessions come to an end, regardless of the line. They have to go to their community. No one gets upset about this. People who need it call for an appointment and others wait for the following Saturday. We have about 50 to 100 confessions every Saturday.

Our friars have told people this over and over again. “If you are sory for your sins, you tried to go to confession and you can’t get to confession, it is not your fault.”

JR

 

[thistle]

Good theology tells you that if the man walking in is in a state of mortal sin, is truly sorry for his sin, and is unable to go to confession through no fault of his own and walks out in front of a bus and dies, he will receive absolution.

Confession is no guarantee of absolution, even when the priest says the words, unless there is true contrition. Think of the many people who die on the field of battle every day without the benefit of confession. We can apply the same here.

As Father David so carefully explained, people must expect that the priest will be available for confession at a reasonable time. He is not always available, even though he is physically present.

I again share the example of my parish where our priests live a monastic life. Af a certain time the confessions come to an end, regardless of the line. They have to go to their community. No one gets upset about this. People who need it call for an appointment and others wait for the following Saturday. We have about 50 to 100 confessions every Saturday.

Our friars have told people this over and over again. “If you are sory for your sins, you tried to go to confession and you can’t get to confession, it is not your fault.”

JR

Only if you make an act of perfect contrition.
Who could be 100% sure they made such an act and also many people, I found out, who are cradle Catholics had never heard of an act of perfect contrition.

 

[JReducation]

Only if you make an act of perfect contrition.
Who could be 100% sure they made such an act and also many people, I found out, who are cradle Catholics had never heard of an act of perfect contrition.

I don’t believe an act of perfect contrition is necessary in such a case. There was the attempt to go to confession and the disposition to be absolved.

Again, I put before you the men and women who die in the field of combat without confession, but who would have been to confession had there been an opportunity to do so. Do we doubt their salvation?

If so, it is morally irresponsible to send men and women into the field of combat where there is such a great chance that they will die without the benefit of confession.

We must leave some room for the grace of God to operate and remember that his mercy is greater than our rules. We can’t apply rules out of context. That’s what Protestants do with Scripture and we know that has not worked for 500 years and never will.

JR

 

[pnewton]

I think the standard of reasonableness is a good one. If we are going to trust the priest with our soul, why not trust them to use good judgement in balancing their demands. Delaying a confession is not a refusal, but an ordering of priorities. Priests have enough understanding of confession to know how high it rates as a priority, but there are other things of equal importance. Let us trust our priest. If you are about to die or in immediate danger of death, then let him know so he can respond accordingly.

 

[JReducation]

I think the standard of reasonableness is a good one. If we are going to trust the priest with our soul, why not trust them to use good judgement in balancing their demands. Delaying a confession is not a refusal, but an ordering of priorities. Priests have enough understanding of confession to know how high it rates as a priority, but there are other things of equal importance. Let us trust our priest. If you are about to die or in immediate danger of death, then let him know so he can respond accordingly.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. No one knows better than a priest the rules of confession and the needs of the penitent soul, as well as the moral laws that govern absolution. If priests themselves are telling you that should you die on your way to confession, your sins are forgiven, because you were properly pre-disposed. That’s good enough. Why make a case out of it?

No one is saying that one should not go to confession. What is being said is that one has to couple faith and reason. Isn’t that what Pope Benedict has called for also?

 

[thistle]

I don’t believe an act of perfect contrition is necessary in such a case. There was the attempt to go to confession and the disposition to be absolved.

Again, I put before you the men and women who die in the field of combat without confession, but who would have been to confession had there been an opportunity to do so. Do we doubt their salvation?

If so, it is morally irresponsible to send men and women into the field of combat where there is such a great chance that they will die without the benefit of confession.

We must leave some room for the grace of God to operate and remember that his mercy is greater than our rules. We can’t apply rules out of context. That’s what Protestants do with Scripture and we know that has not worked for 500 years and never will.

JR

An act of imperfect contrition would not suffice. That is an act made primarily because the person is scared of going to Hell and their sins are not forgiven without going to Confession and receiving absolution.

In the case of the military the soldiers can be given a general absolution by a priest.

 

[JReducation]

An act of imperfect contrition would not suffice. That is an act made primarily because the person is scared of going to Hell and their sins are not forgiven without going to Confession and receiving absolution.

In the case of the military the soldiers can be given a general absolution by a priest.

That is if there is a priest on the battlefield. I’m telling you, this is what our friars have often said when people try to go to confession and are unable to do so. If you have the intention and the disposition, and you are unable to confess, you are not culpable for that. You contrition is sufficient.

JR